Sled suggestions, please...

[Linksvu]

Alright, so here is where I am. We are in need of a "jack of many things" sled and am a bit lost of which direction to go, as well as which sled may fit best.

Details: We are at 9000'; put on about 1k+ a season; can handle 2 riders for a very short ride and tow a small sled for a short distance; can survive going in circles on warm days on a slightly packed trail without overheating; must still be fun to ride when I am forced to spend a half-day on it; must be reliable as hell; as light as possible; have reverse; and able to climb a soft-powdered driveway after a storm without burying itself. I know, the impossible.

So, right now I am thinking a fan-cooled sled, likely a Summit 550f, would be the best fit here - maybe a Freestyle Backcountry with the same motor. But, what are the other thoughts out there? Is fan-cooled the best option or am I off track her?

 

[AZ800]

personally I'd go liquid cooled with ice scratchers for the warmer weather. Most any sled will do what you're asking. Look for a 600 liquid.

 

[Linksvu]

personally I'd go liquid cooled with ice scratchers for the warmer weather. Most any sled will do what you're asking. Look for a 600 liquid.

Do you feel a fan-cooled machine couldn't keep itself cool enough on those warm, dry days?

 

[treemagnet03]

Even liquid cooling will struggle on hot days, but not to the level that a fan cooled sled will. Plus cc for cc, a liquid cooled sled will make about twice the horsepower. And if you don't want to be stuck, the loud flipper having more zip will always be in your favor.

600 liquid is a great place to start, especially the newer models. Happy sledding!

 

[glmtnapex]

Yamaha four-stroke covers all of those criteria except for the light weight. Electric start, liquid cooled, stable, fuel injected, no smoke, and stone cold reliable. I'd look for a Nytro (1000cc, 3cyl), Phazer (500cc, 2cyl), or Apex (1000cc, 4cyl but not made any more), but there are other models available. These are all great sleds, just not the best for DEEP snow and off-trail riding. If you're at 9000ft, then you should be able to find someone who bought one of these for off-trail riding and then realized that they made a bad choice (don't ask me how I know this). So, you should be able to pick one up far a great price. They're still AWSOME sleds, just need to be used for what they are best at (everything but STEEP/DEEP).

 

[volcano buster]

personally I'd go liquid cooled with ice scratchers for the warmer weather. Most any sled will do what you're asking. Look for a 600 liquid.

My vote as well.

 

[Linksvu]

Yamaha four-stroke covers all of those criteria except for the light weight. Electric start, liquid cooled, stable, fuel injected, no smoke, and stone cold reliable. I'd look for a Nytro (1000cc, 3cyl), Phazer (500cc, 2cyl), or Apex (1000cc, 4cyl but not made any more), but there are other models available. These are all great sleds, just not the best for DEEP snow and off-trail riding. If you're at 9000ft, then you should be able to find someone who bought one of these for off-trail riding and then realized that they made a bad choice (don't ask me how I know this). So, you should be able to pick one up far a great price. They're still AWSOME sleds, just need to be used for what they are best at (everything but STEEP/DEEP).

I seem to recall 4 strokes' demand even greater cooling, and would then be more susceptible to overheating on those warm days when there isn't much snow.

Any opinion on how a new rider would handle a newer Phazer? That would be the only model I would have interest since it isn't all too heavy.

 

[glmtnapex]

Yamaha 'overbuilds' all their sleds, including the cooling system. That's part of the reason their so heavy compared to a two stroke machine. My 4-stroke Phazer had an auxillary cooling fan/radiator in case of poor snow conditions that came from the factory (they all do unless someone removes it). I can't remember mine ever overheating, and my wife put-putted around on it all the time. The track can overheat in poor snow conditions, but that's true for ALL sleds, 4-stroke and 2-stroke. Just get/install snow scratchers and you'll be good to go. The 4-stroke Phazers are good machines.

On the trail and up and down the driveway, the Phazer would be a Superstar. In DEEP snow (more than 18") they can be tough to handle for a novice rider, but that's true of ANY sled.

 

[suitcase]

skidoo tundra ! I think that is what they call them.

 

[Linksvu]

Can you fit two butts on the Phazer seat?

 

[glmtnapex]

Can you fit two butts on the Phazer seat?

Depends on the 'butts' involved (there's a joke in here somewhere, but I'm not touching it!), but I think two 'normal' sized people can fit on a Phazer fairly comfortably for a short ride, esp if one is a kid. The seat is a lot like a big 'motocross motorcycle' seat. Do you have a Yamaha Dealer near by? If so, stop-in and check out a Phazer and see for yourself. If not, there's probably one for sale near by on Craig's List or even on Snowest that you could checkout without too much trouble. Who knows, you may even bring her home with you!

Also, be careful when you're shopping for Phazers. Yamaha made one back in the 80's that was 2-stroke. They're cool little sleds, but not what you're looking for. You want to look at year models of 2007 and newer.

 

[AZ800]

DOuble post

 

[AZ800]

Might add what your budget is and intended use, you say going in circles on a packed trail all day.....Are you talking about a shuttle machine for skiing or doing laps around the back 40?
9000', 2 riders capable, powder (on the driveway?) and pull and go reliable still leads me towards a 600, min. Altitude plays a big factor here. Your typical 120hp 600 will only have about 90hp at that altitude on a cold day. Throw in warm weather and a 2 stroke and you can knock some more off of that.
I had a 500 liquid cooled Cat ZR that hauled butt even at high altitude, but it was a short track, 1 rider and clutched for 9000rpms. Put a long track under it, 40deg temps and 2 people on it and it would be a turd.
4 stokes no experience with them except they fit the reliable part of your equation and I know they're heavy. The RX1, Apex and Nytros will run fine in the powder, again weight is the only penalty there IMO.
In my experience overheating is not really much of a concern if you put ice scratchers on about any sled.

 

[polaris dude]

I'd say you can't go wrong with either a 600 or a 700 in most brands.

 

[Linksvu]

Might add what your budget is and intended use, you say going in circles on a packed trail all day.....Are you talking about a shuttle machine for skiing or doing laps around the back 40?
9000', 2 riders capable, powder (on the driveway?) and pull and go reliable still leads me towards a 600, min. Altitude plays a big factor here. Your typical 120hp 600 will only have about 90hp at that altitude on a cold day. Throw in warm weather and a 2 stroke and you can knock some more off of that.
I had a 500 liquid cooled Cat ZR that hauled butt even at high altitude, but it was a short track, 1 rider and clutched for 9000rpms. Put a long track under it, 40deg temps and 2 people on it and it would be a turd.
4 stokes no experience with them except they fit the reliable part of your equation and I know they're heavy. The RX1, Apex and Nytros will run fine in the powder, again weight is the only penalty there IMO.
In my experience overheating is not really much of a concern if you put ice scratchers on about any sled.

Great points. I am hoping to stay under $4k and it's use will be primarily and equally split in the activities described with the only addition being it can't be too boring if I am stuck on it for a half-day ride showing novice riders where to do. By boring I mean early 90's 440 fan-cooled, 1" lug boring - can hardly get out of its own way at 9000' boring.

 

[Dirty10]

144 550 fan Polaris

 

[AZ800]

$4k? You got alot of options. I've only ridden the Phazer once briefly, but IMO, not big enough for 2 people for many reasons, biggest one being the narrow track, 2nd low hp. Plus side, it's probably stone reliable.
If you can get over the no reverse, a M6 or M7 is hard to beat and can find lower mile ones under your budget. You could even get into a M8 with not too many miles for $k or a little over. Not pushing Cats specifically, but even as a now 10 year old chassis design they are still the benchmark that alot of newer sleds are compared to for back country riding.
Otherwise as said above, most mid 2000's 600s and 700s are good reliable do anything sleds.
Tips for finding a reliable one? Find the models that people are selling with tons of miles on them. For mtn sleds, IMO anything much over 3k miles is alot of miles. Then look for a lower mile version of those sleds.

 

[Linksvu]

That is great thinking. The reverse is pretty important for this machine though.

Can the track width really be felt/noticeable on the Phazers? It would seem to me an inch wouldn't make a night and day difference.

 

[t30mg]

Whoever says a fan cooled will not cool on a warmer day simply has no experience with fan cooled rotax.

I had a go-cart I put a Rotax 503 out of a 1981 Ski doo Everest into. I read the plugs for jetting, and never touched the cooling.
It could be 85F out and that thing would scream on the track and never miss a beat.

Never once experienced a cooling issue with it, and it got a lot of summer miles on it.

I also have owned/flown many ultralights with fan cooled rotax engines.

All sizes, 377, 447, 503. All ski doo snowmobile engines. All flown in the summer. Zero ever overheated.

Rotax simply has an awesome cooling system on their fan cooled engines.

Hp at 9k' will pretty weak though...