Skiis opinion

[turboless terry]

Don't need to make a catalyst like a doo. If you like the doo, try one. Doo just happens to make the perfect version of that. Your technique is off and you are behind on everything is my bet. Also bet you are going too slow. That's why your falling over. Need to also anticipate stuff ahead of time. If you are pedaling all the time you are going too slow. You are also going to get pulled into everything especially when you combine all those things.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Your right but I guess I wonder way the exact same place could be so different on each sled? I agree on speed but even my buddy who’s really good said you can’t allways use it. Like those terrible goat trails and tracked up trees ? Easy on the doo and hard on the cat . Guess I now want a cat-doo lol. I’ll try some shock experimentation and see if maybe a little stiffer compression helps? . I don’t like anything about the doo compared to the catalyst for feeling except that lol.

 

[IDspud]

sounds like your front shocks may be plenty soft if it’s rolling on you that easy.

 

[ratlover]

Guessing you are talking actual trail. Not like the main trail thats groomed but the single track trail stuff deeper in? A bit of speed helps in stuff thats banked quite a bit. Sometimes just kneeling on the seat with the inside leg is enough to shift quite a bit of weight to keep from falling over. You are on a pretty steep bank if you have to get all the way over on the outside running board to keep from coming over.

Don’t feel bad. I absolutely hate the single track trails.

 

[Vern]

On slow off camber stuff the alpha does tend to want to tip down hill because the pivot point is in the center of the track instead of the edge of the track. You can’t ride them as “lazy” as you can on a two rail sled in those conditions. They require input to keep from tipping down hill, but not to much input or you’ll pull them right over as you probably know. I’ve never rode a catalyst, so I can’t say anything specific to that chassis, but my ascender alpha I feel I have the most control standing centered with one foot on each board and just make minor movements by using pressure on the running boards on one side or the other. I rarely need to go wrong foot forward unless it’s real steep techy stuff. Being a bigger guy if I go wrong foot forward on more mellow terrain is when I end up pulling the sled over when I don’t want to. I also run stiffer ski shocks than a lot of people seem to like. The 4 wheel rear axle is also a cheap way to tone down some of the alphaness. It kinda splits the difference from an alpha to a two railer.

 

[turboless terry]

What doo were you on? Doos were always easier on two skiing it. They always steered easier. If you turn a doo on asphalt it will turn. If you want to do that on a catalyst or polaris you are going to have to grab the skis and pull it straight towards the shop. The catalyst is the easiest sled out there to sidehill through the trees.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Yeah the crazy trails up to the top. Iam not quite good enough to make my own trail at times so yeah. Also though the lower angle off camber stuff I could just neutral on the skidoo but I’d have to be over the up hill side on the cat and not enough to seem like a full on edge but enough to use a lot of energy . I know it’s cause iam not good but iam getting better so I want to understand how to make it a little easier. I was just really surprised how stiff and planted the skid do was. I guess why guys allways want a twin rail. Don’t get me wrong the cats still easier for me but it was nice to be lazy on the skidoo

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Was Kevin’s 23 850 turbo . I dunno what the designation is? Iam just trying I guess to understand why and how on the suspension. The skidoo was to much for me as far as throttle was concerned. It would surprise me every time and I was intimidated lol. I swear though my catalyst was easier and smoother for me when we where in untracked snow. Iam not good enough to do big climbs and notice the power but I had good pulls through and around trees that I had a lot of throttle. Of course I wasn’t going all that fast but the track was and the little engine was screaming. I did good but I try hard not to get stuck so iam not as risky as most good riders. We talked about it and Kevin kept saying it’s a great little sled but they are allmost identical side by side as far as length and they probably weighed what? 25,30 lbs different? I dunno but the cats the winner for me cause iam small and I am not as strong as I used to be but man on the ride out tired o was happy to just be riding it like a horse instead of alkways being fussy about my weight transfers? Maybe you guys know someone shop that could help? The dealer isn’t really a performance guy

 

[turboless terry]

sounds like your front shocks may be plenty soft if it’s rolling on you that easy.

Seems like that would be an advantage to him on really low angle stuff unless his weight is in the wrong spot and then loke you said thats a huge disadvantage. Catalyst shocks are really soft and springs almost maxed from factory.

 

[IDspud]

Not if it’s too soft and downhill shock is collapsing him into a roll.

He’s said he’s not strong enough to roll up onto one ski, where what you’re saying is correct.

If he wants it to feel more like a ski doo he needs firmer ski shocks so it doesn’t collapse shock and toss him down hill as easy.

 

[IDspud]

Know several guys ditching stock 600 shocks, bottom out fully adjusted out.
My 15 yo even noticed how soft on show room floor.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

It’s easy to get the cat on one ski when the timing is right but it’s also ray to get the timing wrong and I do the push and fall down hill thing and yes sometimes tip over. Slo motion wrecks. Getting a little better at planning my line and anticipating but it’s frustrating when I get trapped by the fall line .

 

[Hawkster]

Take this with a grain of salt but I have never ever riden a ski door or a Polaris lol. Sunday I rode my catalyst half the day and a 23 skidoo 850 the other half. Guys are allway talking about steering effort and heavy skiis and I just don’t know what that is because I have such little experience. I did notice just how much easier it was to steer and tip the catalyst than the skidoo. Way easier and lighter feeling but the skidoo felt so much more planted and was actually easier to ride because I could just stand there . Things that would tip me down hill on the catalyst wouldn’t on the skidoo. It was harder for me to get on edge and carve on the skidoo but on the goat trails I didn’t have to do anything. Felt like cheating after all the English I had to use to get up them on the catalyst . I was a bit confused as to what I need to do to make my catalyst feel a bit more like the skidoo? In my un trained mind I want to tighten the left to right roll of the track but keep the skiis loose lol. Don’t think that’s an option so what should I do? I love the catalyst ease of steering and easy edge but hate how tippy “feeling” it is. Like simply off camber goat trail section needing to be wrong foot and feeling like iam going over down hill but not so much I feel a true edge is appropriate or really that easy? You know what I mean? I want to ride a polaris now lol. I still didn’t feel like the skidoo was better but was definitely uglier lol but I think maybe i need real suspension help to get a better start. In knee to waist deep kinda heavy snow and catalyst was so easy and stable but takes more of a. Exaggerated edge and falling on the side panel happens easyl

You have to try and find a happy medium with your machine, lots of these guys are helping.
All the machines have thier traits and for the single rail catalyst there is very little compatibility to a twin rail.

Don't compare your machine to something completely different, the set up that machine could have a lot of different options and no matter what it does not have an Alpha skid It will just make it more difficult to figure your ride out.

I'll give you my theory on the Alpha Catalyst, the front is working against you, the factory makes it stable as much as they can by cranking up the springs on the ski shocks. I believe that is bad, and makes it harder to ride. The Alpha skid is ment to be nimble, how can that be when the front does not want to collapse.

The skis need be as loose as possible, for me after changing the springs out to a lighter longer spring that still doesn't come close to bottoming out is now a lot easier to roll over from the direction it wanted to go with a stiffer spring.

The softer spring collapse easier the direction you want to go allowing less body english to keep it from going the other direction.

Say your just trying to take a left and it wants to go right, it's because the rear skid is allowing the machine to roll right and with stiffer springs the ski with the least amount of weight will act rigid and help push the machine into the roll it wants to go fighting you going right instead of the direction left. All the machines do this but the Alpha skid really does it and this is why a lot of riders want a twin rail over the single, they just don't know it.
The more friendly you are with the throttle the more you will be having a battle of wills with the machine when part of it is trying to stay planted.
This is where the springs come into play, a stiffer spring will push the ski down and when your trying to go left the machine rolls right with the weight of you and the machine and the left stiff spring ski helps push you right while the right collapses from the weight OR punches threw the snow out of sight.

All these machines are becoming very specific for what thier good at and trying to set them up the same no longer works.

In a nut shell the front needs to be as loose as the back, I believe.

If you loosen the stock springs the skid will sag the more you lower which isn't much before the springs are loose.

The springs are different on the 146 then the 154, the 154 springs are not maxed out either.

 

[line8]

It’s easy to get the cat on one ski when the timing is right but it’s also ray to get the timing wrong and I do the push and fall down hill thing and yes sometimes tip over. Slo motion wrecks. Getting a little better at planning my line and anticipating but it’s frustrating when I get trapped by the fall line .

All that you’re describing makes a lot of sense when I think of some things I disliked about my Cats. I’ve not ridden an Alpha but previous Cats acted like your describing before suspension adjustments. I always thought they didn’t trail well and I often overworked. Especially following buddies on Polaris Pros. What I learned is riding Cats “lazy” is harder. Sometimes that’s just part of the day. This was One of my few dislikes. On the flip side, you then think, gotta get more aggressive. Then you over ride. Over riding can be controlled and learned. The lazy riding problem-feels-are sort of built in to the sled.


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