Ski-Doo 2017 Rev G4 Belt Issues Read This!
- Thread starter Norona
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It was hitting 8000 rpm maximum on climbs as best I could see with the snow. We placed RPM onto the larger part of the small screen and were monitoring as best possible in deep powder to ensure it wasn't over revving. Bret Rasmussen has a YouTube video on this topic so clearly there have been some issues if he has taken the time to develop solutions and publish it for the rest of us. I am hoping my sled's problem is excessive heat as that should be an easy fix. Waiting to see what the dealer thinks currently before doing anything with the sled.
Got a link for that Rasmussen video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgIzdvLOMvk, this is the link to the Rasmussen video, very similar to the one Dave posted. I have not sawed off the bottom of the plastic as shown in the video but have done the rest; may have to do that after I have ridden with the mods I have done if the belt temperature is higher than I'd like? I have also added the prefilter screen in the front bumper area.
Done everything he talked about in that video 2 months ago. No improvement on temps. And before some one points out check alignment, that was checked a month ago. Perfect.
Oh and also have Extreme Air vent kit.
There is a component issue(at least in my opinion), such as motor mounts getting squishy, bad profile on weights, bad run of belts etc...
Oh and also have Extreme Air vent kit.
There is a component issue(at least in my opinion), such as motor mounts getting squishy, bad profile on weights, bad run of belts etc...
John Wilmer is recommending that we use the black secondary spring 157/303 rate I think. Thoughts? I've not blown any belts but definitely the clutches are really really hot, done all the above as well, have proper pin weight, sled pulls consistent rpm. Just worried that I have a belt time bomb
He should not be doing videos other than just riding.
Also have that spring as well. Helps on RPM and preventing over shift conditions. But still extremely hot.
If you ride in the fresh, blaze your own trail these sleds clutches are WAY hot.
Run in the track, follow and jump out once in a while, still hot but tolerable. Since I don't ride that way, it is a issue.
Going to start into my box of helixs and see if I have some that might good options.
Planning on rounding up weights (not the bolt either) as well.
If you ride in the fresh, blaze your own trail these sleds clutches are WAY hot.
Run in the track, follow and jump out once in a while, still hot but tolerable. Since I don't ride that way, it is a issue.
Going to start into my box of helixs and see if I have some that might good options.
Planning on rounding up weights (not the bolt either) as well.
Found worn insulation today on wiring for injector under the plastic motor hood.
Sorry, wrong post, thought this was for "issues" for the G4, not specific to the Belt heat.
Sorry, wrong post, thought this was for "issues" for the G4, not specific to the Belt heat.
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Still a good find though, now I gotta go check that while the hood is off double checking pipe sensor still good a tight.
clutching
Quite a bit of conversation going on about clutching issues on the G4. Other than the hair pulling screaming ranting and raving, haven't read where one person spent $45.00 for a heat gun to dial in a $14,000 sled. Things have really changed.
Haven't had eyes on, but been told secondary sheeve angles are all different, maybe even primary angles.
Been told lots of people back east riding mountain sleds now so as to be able to ride both sides of the country. Steep & deep & flat lakes.
Won't work for the mountain guys, period. Oh sure, the guys that show up and want to drag race up a few hills will be fine.>>>>>>>>>>>>
For what it's worth, buy a different driven clutch. Wish I knew more about what they did with the angles on the drive clutch. Haven't had my hands on one. Factory is into making money to survive, hence, the compromise.
Also, someone needs to take a video of the primary / secondary with sled on track stand. WFO nailing the brake etc. Go back and watch the video. I would bet a lot the clutches are coming together.
I haven't done this yet because I'm not interested. If I'd spent $14,000 on a sled that didn't work, I would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quite a bit of conversation going on about clutching issues on the G4. Other than the hair pulling screaming ranting and raving, haven't read where one person spent $45.00 for a heat gun to dial in a $14,000 sled. Things have really changed.
Haven't had eyes on, but been told secondary sheeve angles are all different, maybe even primary angles.
Been told lots of people back east riding mountain sleds now so as to be able to ride both sides of the country. Steep & deep & flat lakes.
Won't work for the mountain guys, period. Oh sure, the guys that show up and want to drag race up a few hills will be fine.>>>>>>>>>>>>
For what it's worth, buy a different driven clutch. Wish I knew more about what they did with the angles on the drive clutch. Haven't had my hands on one. Factory is into making money to survive, hence, the compromise.
Also, someone needs to take a video of the primary / secondary with sled on track stand. WFO nailing the brake etc. Go back and watch the video. I would bet a lot the clutches are coming together.
I haven't done this yet because I'm not interested. If I'd spent $14,000 on a sled that didn't work, I would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The folks that are dealing with it , like always are the folks that ride "MOUNTAINS". They get it working and go on, just sucks we gotta spend lots of money so some trail guy has a decent running sled. Most of us were hope for better with the new clutch.
Oh and I've had my $500 temp gun out and with out a doubt hot, hot, hot.
It is going to take more than what parts are currently available though to fix I believe. We'll see after this weekend if the parts I have coming will help, but...
Oh and I've had my $500 temp gun out and with out a doubt hot, hot, hot.
It is going to take more than what parts are currently available though to fix I believe. We'll see after this weekend if the parts I have coming will help, but...
clutching
What is the primary showing @ inner sheave, with driven same thing inner sheave approx. same distance up from center = running path etc.?
If your clutches are imbalanced, (primary running way hotter etc.) start there.
Get them to run approx. same heat.
Example:
Mark sheaves with black felt marker.
You make a good long pull, open side cover right away and check temps at the end of black marks where the belt shifted out to in the pull.
To get to balanced clutches, change weight up and or down to get the desired results.
this is assuming you have the correct helix that will work with your load. Guessing 40 degrees ?
When you're testing, and changing weight, always keep the rpm the same @ peak on the clicker you want to run on. You do this by changing primary spring.
If you don't like the shift, you can tune to get it but bear in mind, the weight should remain constant ONCE YOU HAVE THE CLUTCHES EQUAL ON TEMPERATURES!!!!!!!!!
Available cooling air for clutches etc. have a huge effect, but clutches need to be balanced for heat to begin with.
If your rpm is inconsistent in the pull, your driven is not shifting correctly and is binding / hanging up due to poor design or bad tune in the driven. ( ex. too much helix angle / not enough spring etc.).
The driven is the "brains" in the clutching arena. It senses load coming from the engine and also resistance from drive train / track and up shifts or back shifts to keep rpm constant. It does this through the effects of the helix.
More slip = more heat>>>>>>>
This would be where I would start. Good luck!
So what are you seeing for temps?
What is the primary showing @ inner sheave, with driven same thing inner sheave approx. same distance up from center = running path etc.?
If your clutches are imbalanced, (primary running way hotter etc.) start there.
Get them to run approx. same heat.
Example:
Mark sheaves with black felt marker.
You make a good long pull, open side cover right away and check temps at the end of black marks where the belt shifted out to in the pull.
To get to balanced clutches, change weight up and or down to get the desired results.
this is assuming you have the correct helix that will work with your load. Guessing 40 degrees ?
When you're testing, and changing weight, always keep the rpm the same @ peak on the clicker you want to run on. You do this by changing primary spring.
If you don't like the shift, you can tune to get it but bear in mind, the weight should remain constant ONCE YOU HAVE THE CLUTCHES EQUAL ON TEMPERATURES!!!!!!!!!
Available cooling air for clutches etc. have a huge effect, but clutches need to be balanced for heat to begin with.
If your rpm is inconsistent in the pull, your driven is not shifting correctly and is binding / hanging up due to poor design or bad tune in the driven. ( ex. too much helix angle / not enough spring etc.).
The driven is the "brains" in the clutching arena. It senses load coming from the engine and also resistance from drive train / track and up shifts or back shifts to keep rpm constant. It does this through the effects of the helix.
More slip = more heat>>>>>>>
This would be where I would start. Good luck!
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Been doing so, no real changes in temps. Which range from 190-210 just running down a road. To 250 + climbing after 1-2 pulls or boondocking pretty much instantaneous steam if snow falls on clutch. Primary has been the hotter of the 2 every time.
Thus why I believe there is a component issue, profile, motor mounts, secondary tower moving, too far in like the 08-12 XPs or all of the above.
Thus why I believe there is a component issue, profile, motor mounts, secondary tower moving, too far in like the 08-12 XPs or all of the above.
Just shy of 1,200mi and I've gone through 7 belts. Been carrying 4 belts with me everyday just like early nightmare days on the 12' Proclimb.
Removing the foam under the hood and hacking the belt cover is certainly a band aid fix with minimal improvement. When the snow is nipple deep and the sled is submarining at .5mph there is no air flow. That much heat should not be being generated from the clutches in the first place. There is so little air space under the hood I do believe the "oven" affect is part of the issue where the clutches are eventually going to get heat soaked from the engine and reach under hood ambient temps.
Regarding the belts themselves, if skidoo does not start warrantying belts I most certainly will not continue to support them by buying more. I have seen brand new belts with the cords standing proud of the rubber that are guaranteed to fail. Even after trying to run some trail miles in a few new doo belts the cord that sticks out past the rubber is already starting to catch and is a sure death sentence.
I burned through all four belts I brought to revy on a recent trip and went and bought two of the gates carbon fiber belts. Instead of using a continuous wrap of cord where there is always a loose end where it is cut, the gates belt has a full carbon fiber band. The carbon band is also designed to wear at the same or slightly accelerated rate v. the rubber so that is never sticks out beyond the rubber to get shredded. I also understand that the carbon band is a better bonding surface for gluing the belt together. They are cheaper and have a warranty. So the hell with the overpriced doo belts that are engineered to pull cords. So far the gates belt has survived the longest for me in some of the deepest snow I have seen in years.
Otherwise I absolutely love my sled. It has pulled off some maneuvers for me in un believably deep snow that are just almost supernatural....
Removing the foam under the hood and hacking the belt cover is certainly a band aid fix with minimal improvement. When the snow is nipple deep and the sled is submarining at .5mph there is no air flow. That much heat should not be being generated from the clutches in the first place. There is so little air space under the hood I do believe the "oven" affect is part of the issue where the clutches are eventually going to get heat soaked from the engine and reach under hood ambient temps.
Regarding the belts themselves, if skidoo does not start warrantying belts I most certainly will not continue to support them by buying more. I have seen brand new belts with the cords standing proud of the rubber that are guaranteed to fail. Even after trying to run some trail miles in a few new doo belts the cord that sticks out past the rubber is already starting to catch and is a sure death sentence.
I burned through all four belts I brought to revy on a recent trip and went and bought two of the gates carbon fiber belts. Instead of using a continuous wrap of cord where there is always a loose end where it is cut, the gates belt has a full carbon fiber band. The carbon band is also designed to wear at the same or slightly accelerated rate v. the rubber so that is never sticks out beyond the rubber to get shredded. I also understand that the carbon band is a better bonding surface for gluing the belt together. They are cheaper and have a warranty. So the hell with the overpriced doo belts that are engineered to pull cords. So far the gates belt has survived the longest for me in some of the deepest snow I have seen in years.
Otherwise I absolutely love my sled. It has pulled off some maneuvers for me in un believably deep snow that are just almost supernatural....
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Not to ad fuel to the fire but you guys will never get a straight answer on problems with clutching or anything else from guys like Norana or Rasmussen. They are getting paid to say what they say, they are never going to admit there are problems with the machines. There is definitely a problem with clutching and I feel for you guys. It would be hard to know that you spent that much money for something and have to carry $600.00 in belts to make sure you make it back to the truck. Hopefully someone finds a fix soon. And as far as the guys saying to many RPM how do you expect a belt to last running a turbo. A turbo will run more RPM so you would be constantly blowing belts, RPM is not the problem.
The 850, as well as, a turbo are designed to run a specific rpm. Not too little, not too much, there is a spot in the middle called just right. Why run a sled at 8300 when it's supposed to run 7900?
Gates belt number?
Where you getting at?
Cost?
Warranty? Do tell...
Ace
Where you getting at?
Cost?
Warranty? Do tell...
Ace
And why not just step up and give us a straight answer on how to get the RPM down to where it needs to be and make parts available.
I bought a sled that is supost to run 7900 rpm and it is up to me to adjust the clickers for my conditions.
I did my part runing on clicker one 8100 rpm now it is up to doo to give us a the parts needed to get it within spec.
All we ask is a sled to run at the RPM that Ski doo says it needs to run. Is that to much to ask BRP wake up!
I bought a sled that is supost to run 7900 rpm and it is up to me to adjust the clickers for my conditions.
I did my part runing on clicker one 8100 rpm now it is up to doo to give us a the parts needed to get it within spec.
All we ask is a sled to run at the RPM that Ski doo says it needs to run. Is that to much to ask BRP wake up!
60 bucks for a weight kit..who wouldnt pay that to get their rpm correct..
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