C
canucklehead
Well-known member
Great post Darren, that was tough for me to read. We had a tough night saturday waiting to hear you were ok.
Revy avalanche
- Thread starter steveo10
- Start date
I've been reading this thread since it started. Sledding is a very big part of my life....part of my identity! I cherish the friendships I have made with so many great people through riding. Tragedies bring us together, and can sometimes tear some of us apart. I can only imagine the horror experienced by so many on Boulder last week. Such a horrific event often shows many people's true character and breeds heroes! It sounds like this was definitely the case in this instance. My heart goes out to all who grieve and suffer from this terrible event! 
Steve (OT).... I believe I understand what you are trying to do. You did it shortly after Dave (Animal) died as well. As it was then, it is just too soon, and emotions are just too raw for lessons. At least that is my belief, and my experience. I think a lot will be learned from this tragedy. I know you have had great loss yourself....so, please be mindful of those who are grieving now.
Susie....GOOD JOB! You nailed it!!!
Steve (OT).... I believe I understand what you are trying to do. You did it shortly after Dave (Animal) died as well. As it was then, it is just too soon, and emotions are just too raw for lessons. At least that is my belief, and my experience. I think a lot will be learned from this tragedy. I know you have had great loss yourself....so, please be mindful of those who are grieving now.
Susie....GOOD JOB! You nailed it!!!
I'm not going to jump on the BBQ OT bandwagon, he's saying some very true and important things that a lot of people are just either too close to the situation to acknowledge or still too hurt to want to listen to... I understand that, and I think OT is willing to take your anger if in the long run it makes a difference.
That said, I also appreciate the whole "honor the heros" thing, but I have to ask that if all these heroes were so well prepared with avy gear and knew how to use it then what in Sam Hill were they doing there in the first place? One would assume that if they knew how to use the avy gear they had some training yet they chose to ride right in to the extreme danger.
And because of those choices a lot of people who had no training followed along. Frankly, if someone chose to ignore the dangers that day and had the knowledge to know better yet still rode in there then they probably have a lot of guilt to deal with at this point and shouldn't be feeling like a hero.
As a community we are fooling ourselves if we think government isn't going to get involved with these sorts of mistakes continuing to be made by our fellow riders. There are too many 'do-gooders' that feel they need to protect us. But we bring it on ourselves by continuing to either willingly or naively make choices that result in death and injury. We can rant against it all we want, but regulation of some sort will happen.
sled_guy
That said, I also appreciate the whole "honor the heros" thing, but I have to ask that if all these heroes were so well prepared with avy gear and knew how to use it then what in Sam Hill were they doing there in the first place? One would assume that if they knew how to use the avy gear they had some training yet they chose to ride right in to the extreme danger.
And because of those choices a lot of people who had no training followed along. Frankly, if someone chose to ignore the dangers that day and had the knowledge to know better yet still rode in there then they probably have a lot of guilt to deal with at this point and shouldn't be feeling like a hero.
As a community we are fooling ourselves if we think government isn't going to get involved with these sorts of mistakes continuing to be made by our fellow riders. There are too many 'do-gooders' that feel they need to protect us. But we bring it on ourselves by continuing to either willingly or naively make choices that result in death and injury. We can rant against it all we want, but regulation of some sort will happen.
sled_guy
I've been reading this thread since it started. Sledding is a very big part of my life....part of my identity! I cherish the friendships I have made with so many great people through riding. Tragedies bring us together, and can sometimes tear some of us apart. I can only imagine the horror experienced by so many on Boulder last week. Such a horrific event often shows many people's true character and breeds heroes! It sounds like this was definitely the case in this instance. My heart goes out to all who grieve and suffer from this terrible event!
Steve (OT).... I believe I understand what you are trying to do. You did it shortly after Dave (Animal) died as well. As it was then, it is just too soon, and emotions are just too raw for lessons. At least that is my belief, and my experience. I think a lot will be learned from this tragedy. I know you have had great loss yourself....so, please be mindful of those who are grieving now.
Susie....GOOD JOB! You nailed it!!!
Sunridge, to soon or to late it really doesn't matter people will alway be in denial and that denial will continue to kill people in the backcountry.....
As for Susie and everyone who thinks the 200 plus folks on hand are hero's, i give it a good sugar coating at best.....I had a long talk last night with my buddy who works for the BLM who said to me how can these guys be hero's since they were part of the problem and put themselves in that situation to begin with.... Hmmmm, he has a good point.
As long as there is denial for peoples actions the backcountry will always be a killing field.
Bottom Line You Can Not Be A Hero And Part Of The Problem At The Same Time
Stop The Denial & Stop The Sugar Coating Now To Prevent More People From Dying Tomorrow
OT
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
I agree with you 100%....unfortunately, we are our own worst enemy. No one brings more heat on the snowmobile community than itself. OT's delivery is blunt and brash, but there is a lot of truth in it that people don't want to hear.
I've been reading this thread since it started. Sledding is a very big part of my life....part of my identity! I cherish the friendships I have made with so many great people through riding. Tragedies bring us together, and can sometimes tear some of us apart. I can only imagine the horror experienced by so many on Boulder last week. Such a horrific event often shows many people's true character and breeds heroes! It sounds like this was definitely the case in this instance. My heart goes out to all who grieve and suffer from this terrible event!
Steve (OT).... I believe I understand what you are trying to do. You did it shortly after Dave (Animal) died as well. As it was then, it is just too soon, and emotions are just too raw for lessons. At least that is my belief, and my experience. I think a lot will be learned from this tragedy. I know you have had great loss yourself....so, please be mindful of those who are grieving now.
Susie....GOOD JOB! You nailed it!!!
Fantastic post Kim. Well done bud.
He also did the same thing when Jason Troyer was killed at Copper Creek Bowls in Lincoln, MT in about 2002.
VERY good.
Thanks for taking one for the team, Steve.
I agree with you.
Wow ,are all you guys lawyers?
S
sledchick
Well-known member
Being a snowmobiler, I feel the need to say something about this event. There will be a lot of good and a lot of bad coming from this tragedy. Which happens in all life's mistakes. We won't know the ramifications of our actions till the iron fist comes down. That being said, great job Susie on writing that article...I hope people come to understand our point of view!
Politics aside, my prayers have been going out nonstop since I found out about the avy, I couldn't imagine the things they saw, felt, and heard. Unfortunately the scars will always be there, like a lot of you who have lost friends/family in avalanches. If anyone hears about ways to help/donations/etc..please post!
Politics aside, my prayers have been going out nonstop since I found out about the avy, I couldn't imagine the things they saw, felt, and heard. Unfortunately the scars will always be there, like a lot of you who have lost friends/family in avalanches.
If anyone hears about ways to help/donations/etc..please post!just putting in my 2 cents
I dont think they can or should put restrictions on access but do think that it should be regulation to have at least your basic gear... becon prob shovel.
my problem with regs is it makes it that much harder for new people to get into the sport.
I personly take alot of new people out and ride in locations that are safe, but that is the responsibity of all of us that know our stuff.( to help out thoughs that dont know)
for me sleding is a family event as well as something that the guys go out and push our limits. somethimes my boys are out when we climb or are jumping... but no differnt then i wont alow them to sit close to my landings, I am verry carefull of were they can sit as I climb... they should be well clear of avi run out. plus on top of all that I dont beleave a bulletin is worth any more then a vag indication if that. I always trust my pits and curnent activity more then any other info
if we chosse to play in the backcounty we take the responsibility of making sure we are safe on that face, medow, hill, at that time on that exsposer.
its not the goverments place to hold uor hand as we are out there
I dont think they can or should put restrictions on access but do think that it should be regulation to have at least your basic gear... becon prob shovel.
my problem with regs is it makes it that much harder for new people to get into the sport.
I personly take alot of new people out and ride in locations that are safe, but that is the responsibity of all of us that know our stuff.( to help out thoughs that dont know)
for me sleding is a family event as well as something that the guys go out and push our limits. somethimes my boys are out when we climb or are jumping... but no differnt then i wont alow them to sit close to my landings, I am verry carefull of were they can sit as I climb... they should be well clear of avi run out. plus on top of all that I dont beleave a bulletin is worth any more then a vag indication if that. I always trust my pits and curnent activity more then any other info
if we chosse to play in the backcounty we take the responsibility of making sure we are safe on that face, medow, hill, at that time on that exsposer.
its not the goverments place to hold uor hand as we are out there
OT....I probably agree with you more than not. However, if you really want to see change, the way in which your message is delivered is key! If you just pi$$ people off, your intended message become mute....IMHO!
As for the heroes on the hill....I highly doubt any one of them considers themselves as such! I'm sure many of them have a lot of emotional, not to mention physical, pain and a knot in their guts. My own personal experience after, and as a result of, Animal's death, not only changed the way I ride, but it changed my life! Whether anyone should have been on the hill or not will be debated and investigated in great detail I am sure. But, the fact that there were only two deaths, which is two too many I know, is a testament to heroic and knowledgeable recovery efforts!
As for the heroes on the hill....I highly doubt any one of them considers themselves as such! I'm sure many of them have a lot of emotional, not to mention physical, pain and a knot in their guts. My own personal experience after, and as a result of, Animal's death, not only changed the way I ride, but it changed my life! Whether anyone should have been on the hill or not will be debated and investigated in great detail I am sure. But, the fact that there were only two deaths, which is two too many I know, is a testament to heroic and knowledgeable recovery efforts!
R
rigrat
Active member
Does anyone believe that OT really cares about lives being saved? Put your money where your mouth is and go save some lives for real. Here are a few options for you. Maybe you could start off by checking your communities smoke alarms. You could sell all of you belongings and donate the money to a worthwhile cause. Join the military. Become an avy instructor. Teach swimming lessons. Boy Scout leader. I am quite sure that with all of your obviously free time that you can accomplish something really great. YOU MAY EVEN WAKE UP FEELING GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF!!! GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
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At this time, since Saturday 6:41pm local time, 3978 different people have made 673 posts in this thread alone for a total of 62,243 hits/views on this thread.
Some people in here have made statements that unintentionally reveal a misunderstanding of avy terrain and sometimes a lack of respect for the choices that are made when in avy terrain.
I am certain (and hopeful) that people have opened their minds to new things with this thread that had not considered or thought of them (or maybe ignored them) in past.
Hopefully this can turn this tragedy into a very enlightening and teachable moment for all of us.
P
product tester
Well-known member
although I was not a the bottom of the hill when it came down I was in the area and got to whitness one amazing sight I arived with in 10 min. and everyone that was burried was un covered and there was a fire being started.
I would like to say thanks to all those heros. I post more later
I would like to say thanks to all those heros. I post more later
OT... We mostly agree that there should have been no one the mountain that day. Obviously the thrill of the fresh snow and fellowship blurred their back-country safety thinking.
I don't want to go here and stoop to your level but your posts leaves me no choice. I'll put this in a way that you may understand. I write this with absolutely no disrespect to your late wife in no way shape or form. She was a fantastic woman that did great things.
There was not one single person post anything but good wishes when your wife was killed. Not one person posted that your wife shouldn't have been on the road that day because the roads were slick and the risk of a head-on was high. Not one person said she was part of the problem for being on the road that day because the roads were slick. Not one person said that the people that stopped to help were not heroes. Not one person said we need to put a stop to all traveling on snow covered or icy roads. Not one person said if you buy a four wheel drive and go out on slick roads you are part of the problem. Not one person sugar coated anything.
Again I do not want to be disrespectful but I feel you are being so yourself. And I know you are probably doing this on purpose to p!$s people off and it is working.
There is risk in every thing we do. There are precautions out there to protect us from the risk (AVY reports, road reports, storm warning, four wheel drive etc.) Yes some major rules for the back-country were not heeded. And people lost grandsons, sons, brothers, fathers, husbands, friends. There is a time and place to tell people that they are dumb SOB's. In my opinion this is not it. We should be respecting the feelings of those who are mourning their loved ones and friends. I understand that you are trying to make a valid point and if we don't do something it will happen again. I agree. Few people are denying that mistakes were made. As long we are human there will be more people in situations we shouldn't be in.
So what are people sugar coating and denying again? I have missed that some where in this huge thread.
I am not attacking you OT. Just trying to put it in a perspective you can relate to.
I don't want to go here and stoop to your level but your posts leaves me no choice. I'll put this in a way that you may understand. I write this with absolutely no disrespect to your late wife in no way shape or form. She was a fantastic woman that did great things.
There was not one single person post anything but good wishes when your wife was killed. Not one person posted that your wife shouldn't have been on the road that day because the roads were slick and the risk of a head-on was high. Not one person said she was part of the problem for being on the road that day because the roads were slick. Not one person said that the people that stopped to help were not heroes. Not one person said we need to put a stop to all traveling on snow covered or icy roads. Not one person said if you buy a four wheel drive and go out on slick roads you are part of the problem. Not one person sugar coated anything.
Again I do not want to be disrespectful but I feel you are being so yourself. And I know you are probably doing this on purpose to p!$s people off and it is working.
There is risk in every thing we do. There are precautions out there to protect us from the risk (AVY reports, road reports, storm warning, four wheel drive etc.) Yes some major rules for the back-country were not heeded. And people lost grandsons, sons, brothers, fathers, husbands, friends. There is a time and place to tell people that they are dumb SOB's. In my opinion this is not it. We should be respecting the feelings of those who are mourning their loved ones and friends. I understand that you are trying to make a valid point and if we don't do something it will happen again. I agree. Few people are denying that mistakes were made. As long we are human there will be more people in situations we shouldn't be in.
So what are people sugar coating and denying again? I have missed that some where in this huge thread.
I am not attacking you OT. Just trying to put it in a perspective you can relate to.
B
bigbull
Well-known member
WHAT HE SAID^^^^
As soon as I see its a post from OT anymore, I just skip over it and continue on. Being provocative to induce thought and action can be done in a fashion you need to learn for people to take you seriously and learn from your insight, which, admittedly, can be useful at times.
BB
My best wishes to the families of those who were killed. I hope that all the injured have a speedy recovery. Thank you to everyone who stepped up to help in any way at all, you know who you are.
My life has been forever changed.
2
2strokes_are_awesome
Active member
Do you have any idea how stupid and unneccesary your comments are?
Shut the hell up!
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