Project PRO FECTION
- Thread starter F-Bomb
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FOX SHOCK TALK:
OK on the rear suspension front shock....
The question of why are we using a FOX Zero-Pro as opposed to the Fox Float 2? (as it was explained to me) Ideally they would have liked to use a float for a bit lighter physical weight and additional adjustability but the shock would have been too short for the type of pressure/function needed in that position. It would have been a less then ideal solution. Weight is one aspect of the design goal but performance/durability is absolutely paramount.
Yes there is a huge difference in how the suspensions all perform as a result of rider weight and power output. Of course a bunch of other important variables also factor in. Fortunately if we do boost this sled I have access to several others that won't get a turbo for direct comparisons. I have been constantly telling anyone who would listen about the incredible positive benefits of the HOLZ ALPHA-X rear suspension. A bunch of easy and quick field adjustments so that you can dial in a personal high performance setup for all kinds of conditions and vehicles. Totally awesome if you are into an elite level of performance over just simply riding what you brought on what ever Mother Nature offers us for the day.
The negative that I heard and dealt with was that it was "too complex...too many adjustments or settings". Of course I say bunk...you have to get in there and play with it to understand what each change does to your sled. Once you get it figured out it's just amazing. It all takes a whopping five minutes in the field to adjust!
While the stocker is no ALPHA-X with full EVOL X and FLOAT for maximum tunability the stocker with the FOX/Carl's setup will offer riders high performance with the added benefit of a level of adjustability in the field. I personally think a lot of riders will really enjoy this suspension with a moderate level of adjustability but not as many combinations to confuse them with. It's certainly going to be easy for us to say...what's it doing that you don't like? "OK this many pounds air...this rebound clicker setting...this limiter strap length and go get em Tiger!" Pretty cool stuff!
OK on the rear suspension front shock....
The question of why are we using a FOX Zero-Pro as opposed to the Fox Float 2? (as it was explained to me) Ideally they would have liked to use a float for a bit lighter physical weight and additional adjustability but the shock would have been too short for the type of pressure/function needed in that position. It would have been a less then ideal solution. Weight is one aspect of the design goal but performance/durability is absolutely paramount.
Yes there is a huge difference in how the suspensions all perform as a result of rider weight and power output. Of course a bunch of other important variables also factor in. Fortunately if we do boost this sled I have access to several others that won't get a turbo for direct comparisons. I have been constantly telling anyone who would listen about the incredible positive benefits of the HOLZ ALPHA-X rear suspension. A bunch of easy and quick field adjustments so that you can dial in a personal high performance setup for all kinds of conditions and vehicles. Totally awesome if you are into an elite level of performance over just simply riding what you brought on what ever Mother Nature offers us for the day.
The negative that I heard and dealt with was that it was "too complex...too many adjustments or settings". Of course I say bunk...you have to get in there and play with it to understand what each change does to your sled. Once you get it figured out it's just amazing. It all takes a whopping five minutes in the field to adjust!
While the stocker is no ALPHA-X with full EVOL X and FLOAT for maximum tunability the stocker with the FOX/Carl's setup will offer riders high performance with the added benefit of a level of adjustability in the field. I personally think a lot of riders will really enjoy this suspension with a moderate level of adjustability but not as many combinations to confuse them with. It's certainly going to be easy for us to say...what's it doing that you don't like? "OK this many pounds air...this rebound clicker setting...this limiter strap length and go get em Tiger!" Pretty cool stuff!
Finally getting some time on this sled. So far it is simply outstanding. Here is what it ended up looking like.
So far bone stock engine and clutching until we get more time on it. Then we will decide on the engine performance package. Leaning heavily towards a Boondockers Pump Gas Turbo System but I will say as of today I'm very very impressed with this sled as a stocker. It will obviously get a Carl's clutch package of parts, sheave cut, and balance when we decide on the engine package.
Trimmed the stocker and no complaints in felt performance. It never had a stock from the start (other then just road riding). Have to get it RIGHT NEXT to a bone stock non-trimmed version of the 5.1 in all kinds of real world riding conditions before I will conclude that this is an absolute positive adjustment. The next couple of weeks will tell us alot since now there is real snow to test on.
The Fox Evol shock package is absolutely outstanding. If you are into performance and quality you need to ride a sled equiped with this package. IT IS SIMPLY FAR SUPERIOR TO STOCK. You can make minor click adjustments and feel the results. You can make air pressure adjustments and SEE and FEEL the results in how the sled goes and reacts. IT IS VERY VERY COOL.
Just like last season the 2011 PRO version of Better Boards are just excellent. Far superior in traction, feel, and snow clearing (ESPECIALLY AT THE FOOTWELL) to what Polaris thought would be the ticket. Well the fact is NOT EVEN IN THE BALL PARK! Now the kicker..DURABILITY. Ride your stocker real hard and see the results. We are already seeing bent and buggered up stockers that aren't comparing in durability to our Better Boarded up sleds ridden in the same environment HEADS UP.
We have lots of action video coming up soon on our Snowmobile Better Boards website that will have this sled and many more of our offerings in action. Now we have snow so lots of cool stuff coming. Our video guy is busy at work editing some stuff from last season and we'll get more as soon as possible especially of this particular sled
So far bone stock engine and clutching until we get more time on it. Then we will decide on the engine performance package. Leaning heavily towards a Boondockers Pump Gas Turbo System but I will say as of today I'm very very impressed with this sled as a stocker. It will obviously get a Carl's clutch package of parts, sheave cut, and balance when we decide on the engine package.
Trimmed the stocker and no complaints in felt performance. It never had a stock from the start (other then just road riding). Have to get it RIGHT NEXT to a bone stock non-trimmed version of the 5.1 in all kinds of real world riding conditions before I will conclude that this is an absolute positive adjustment. The next couple of weeks will tell us alot since now there is real snow to test on.
The Fox Evol shock package is absolutely outstanding. If you are into performance and quality you need to ride a sled equiped with this package. IT IS SIMPLY FAR SUPERIOR TO STOCK. You can make minor click adjustments and feel the results. You can make air pressure adjustments and SEE and FEEL the results in how the sled goes and reacts. IT IS VERY VERY COOL.
Just like last season the 2011 PRO version of Better Boards are just excellent. Far superior in traction, feel, and snow clearing (ESPECIALLY AT THE FOOTWELL) to what Polaris thought would be the ticket. Well the fact is NOT EVEN IN THE BALL PARK! Now the kicker..DURABILITY. Ride your stocker real hard and see the results. We are already seeing bent and buggered up stockers that aren't comparing in durability to our Better Boarded up sleds ridden in the same environment HEADS UP.
We have lots of action video coming up soon on our Snowmobile Better Boards website that will have this sled and many more of our offerings in action. Now we have snow so lots of cool stuff coming. Our video guy is busy at work editing some stuff from last season and we'll get more as soon as possible especially of this particular sled
continuing:
3.4 hours this sled is just outstanding...bone stock engine/clutch now 8300 rpm's all day long...no heat and no belt fade. I'm exhausted before the sled is!
Next step I think clutching from Carl's. Was going to wait til turbo time but I want to know how much better this one gets stock. 8300 at 7000ft 38* heavy snow is leaving performance on the table. That said it flat out rips..can I really get from point a to point b faster with a Carl's clutch kit? IS there some more pull on the mid to top since it's spinning out too much? More helix first..then another gram or MAYBE EVEN TWO? What happens when we get into the less heavy types of snow? Man I hope so and it will just increase the wow factor!
SHOX? Well I'm really liking these FOX shocks and it's for the little things. Example: There was a fallen tree across the trail that we jumped over on the way in and it was fun...smooth...effortless. On the way out I was hauling the mail way too fast down the trail and here it was from the other way. Not where or how I remembered it (trail is 18 miles long) and it was dusk with freezing fog on the goggles. Came around the bend and there it was! Panic skid/slide...brain says hit it! So setup..compress the suspension....prepare to fly. (we talked about hitting this thing to test these shocks way up the trail and another guy wanted to do it..I didn't want to ride his sled all that way 2010 HCR stocker so I got this one back prior..kind of amped up to try it) Unfortunately the take off from this side is cambered badly towards off the trail into a creek. All things added up to a horrible jump and could have been very very ugly. Pretty good distance and air but I was all leaned over to the side and heading off into the creek side of the trail. Tail hit just before the left front shock and I was really ready for a painful mess (the kind where you grit your teeth and to quote Ricky Bobby "I'm flying through the air and this is not good". Sled flat gobbled it up with no jolting horrible wrist wrenching impact like when you case your front shocks let alone ONE SHOCK. Back didn't hop even though I landed tail first and was off of the throttle bringing everything forward. In my mind I just thought..WOW that was impressive and I'm very lucky. This was a bad landing that can sometimes bend the suspension rails and tweak a tunnel. Sled still looks good.
I also got to ride a PRO without Better Boards heads up in the same stuff with this sled. The stock boarded PRO while it isn't anywhere near as horrible for build up as the IQ RAW still builds up badly and requires attention. The Better Boards just flat out work way way better even on this sled. THIS IS AN UNARGUABLE FACT! Another situation that I noticed was that the stock sled had a more significant build up right in the footwell by the clutches. The Better Boards have a much larger evacuation opening right there so the snow has somewhere to go when you work your feet around. On the stocker it gets pushed up into the clutch compartment and reports say lead to problems. I don't have a block off installed yet but didn't get any slippage. Snow was heavy and was laying the sleds over in a couple feet of fresh to give it lots of opportunity to build up on the boards. Interesting!
3.4 hours this sled is just outstanding...bone stock engine/clutch now 8300 rpm's all day long...no heat and no belt fade. I'm exhausted before the sled is!
Next step I think clutching from Carl's. Was going to wait til turbo time but I want to know how much better this one gets stock. 8300 at 7000ft 38* heavy snow is leaving performance on the table. That said it flat out rips..can I really get from point a to point b faster with a Carl's clutch kit? IS there some more pull on the mid to top since it's spinning out too much? More helix first..then another gram or MAYBE EVEN TWO? What happens when we get into the less heavy types of snow? Man I hope so and it will just increase the wow factor!
SHOX? Well I'm really liking these FOX shocks and it's for the little things. Example: There was a fallen tree across the trail that we jumped over on the way in and it was fun...smooth...effortless. On the way out I was hauling the mail way too fast down the trail and here it was from the other way. Not where or how I remembered it (trail is 18 miles long) and it was dusk with freezing fog on the goggles. Came around the bend and there it was! Panic skid/slide...brain says hit it! So setup..compress the suspension....prepare to fly. (we talked about hitting this thing to test these shocks way up the trail and another guy wanted to do it..I didn't want to ride his sled all that way 2010 HCR stocker so I got this one back prior..kind of amped up to try it) Unfortunately the take off from this side is cambered badly towards off the trail into a creek. All things added up to a horrible jump and could have been very very ugly. Pretty good distance and air but I was all leaned over to the side and heading off into the creek side of the trail. Tail hit just before the left front shock and I was really ready for a painful mess (the kind where you grit your teeth and to quote Ricky Bobby "I'm flying through the air and this is not good". Sled flat gobbled it up with no jolting horrible wrist wrenching impact like when you case your front shocks let alone ONE SHOCK. Back didn't hop even though I landed tail first and was off of the throttle bringing everything forward. In my mind I just thought..WOW that was impressive and I'm very lucky. This was a bad landing that can sometimes bend the suspension rails and tweak a tunnel. Sled still looks good.
I also got to ride a PRO without Better Boards heads up in the same stuff with this sled. The stock boarded PRO while it isn't anywhere near as horrible for build up as the IQ RAW still builds up badly and requires attention. The Better Boards just flat out work way way better even on this sled. THIS IS AN UNARGUABLE FACT! Another situation that I noticed was that the stock sled had a more significant build up right in the footwell by the clutches. The Better Boards have a much larger evacuation opening right there so the snow has somewhere to go when you work your feet around. On the stocker it gets pushed up into the clutch compartment and reports say lead to problems. I don't have a block off installed yet but didn't get any slippage. Snow was heavy and was laying the sleds over in a couple feet of fresh to give it lots of opportunity to build up on the boards. Interesting!
Looks great Rob... I hope to ride with you this spring and learn a bit in the trees from you
Happy Holidays to you Brother!!
Now chant with me....
Happy Holidays to you Brother!!
Now chant with me....
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
BOOST IT !!
My chant:
We'll see
We'll see
We'll see
We'll see
Jack is working on a big bore kit for this sled. I want to "feel" both...weigh the particulars...grit my teeth, plug my nose, and LEAP. This sled is supposed to be sold at the end of the season. I LOVE IT AND MY NOT BE ABLE TO BARE GIVING IT UP...makes me more serious about my choice!
Eric I think we'll be in Jackson for some time prior to hillclimb. Normally a good opportunity to ride then. Don't know how many or what sleds I'll have but guessing there could be nice selection of demo's (prob depends on who is who and what needs to be marketed away). Also anytime you need a vacation come on up..OREGON or IDAHO your choice.
We'll see
We'll see
We'll see
We'll see
Jack is working on a big bore kit for this sled. I want to "feel" both...weigh the particulars...grit my teeth, plug my nose, and LEAP. This sled is supposed to be sold at the end of the season. I LOVE IT AND MY NOT BE ABLE TO BARE GIVING IT UP...makes me more serious about my choice!
Eric I think we'll be in Jackson for some time prior to hillclimb. Normally a good opportunity to ride then. Don't know how many or what sleds I'll have but guessing there could be nice selection of demo's (prob depends on who is who and what needs to be marketed away). Also anytime you need a vacation come on up..OREGON or IDAHO your choice.
Epic rides in McCall this weekend. Climbed out of 4 days in bed dying...rode like it was my first day ever (heavy meds no balance). Got better on Saturday riding with Shane Kelley. Still getting back into the swing of things but this is as much fun as I've had riding in years.
Sorry Scott not much of a camara guy. Shane had the go pro out but I'm not quite ready for prime time yet.
THIS SLED IS FLAT OUT AWESOME FOR A STOCKER. Tried some new clutching and it's working very well. No heat and great performance. Did break a motor mount on our way out Saturday. Put a horrible divot in the primary and can't find the bolt. Was having a flat out ball when it went clank clank.
When people ride these sleds in the hills I'm wondering how cat, doo, and yamaha can sell any sleds!
Sorry Scott not much of a camara guy. Shane had the go pro out but I'm not quite ready for prime time yet.
THIS SLED IS FLAT OUT AWESOME FOR A STOCKER. Tried some new clutching and it's working very well. No heat and great performance. Did break a motor mount on our way out Saturday. Put a horrible divot in the primary and can't find the bolt. Was having a flat out ball when it went clank clank.
When people ride these sleds in the hills I'm wondering how cat, doo, and yamaha can sell any sleds!
Rob, have you decided if you are going to big bore or turbo the Pro yet? President's Day weekend is coming up in a few weeks 
I will be happy if I can just keep up with your Pro in stock form (engine).
I will be happy if I can just keep up with your Pro in stock form (engine).
None of the big bores are ready yet. BUT trust me on this one...not a day goes by when I don't ask! Everyone is working really hard on the turbo stuff. Sounds like they are making excellent progress. While they do that I am riding the living life right out of this bone stock PRO. INCREDIBLE sled! It is everybit as good as any normally asperated mod sled I've ever ridden. All we did was the FOX package and some clutching so far (well of course Better Boards...which by the way if you ride a PRO in deep snow and don't have you are just plain old missing out..or should I say being really really busy scraping away the day)
I'm on the fence on Wyoming. If I can get a travel partner I am there 100%. Long ways to go by yourself...also lobbying to bring some fun stuff for you guys to compare. We'll see...think the wheels are spinning! Looking pretty good
Scott you'll be happy to know we've actually got a few photos being processed. Still haven't had the right combo of snow. sun, sled, rider for anything that worthy. Soon I hope...kind of a comedy of tech errors but we are getting there.
I'm on the fence on Wyoming. If I can get a travel partner I am there 100%. Long ways to go by yourself...also lobbying to bring some fun stuff for you guys to compare. We'll see...think the wheels are spinning! Looking pretty good
Scott you'll be happy to know we've actually got a few photos being processed. Still haven't had the right combo of snow. sun, sled, rider for anything that worthy. Soon I hope...kind of a comedy of tech errors but we are getting there.
UPDATE: All is well! Sled still flat out hauls a$$...had to work a club fun run this past weekend.....50 some odd miles of trail riding! ARGH you would think. Well guess again peeps. This was like a cross country race track and we made the best of it. This thing being a fun trail sled was not in the brochure. I have 2 hours of video doing danger fast cross country racing and it was a hoot. Heart pumping fun to go wicked over a rise and just fly fly fly. You can also whip back and forth across the trail through rutted up cuts as smooth as silk. This sled eats trouble and spits it out. The more aggressive you are the better the ride.
Also tested two new onboard video systems to enhance the time commitment. Cool stuff...more on that later.
Now going to work on an improved rear spring system for the zero pro on this FOX setup. I'm getting it flat out dialed as is but think there might be quite a bit of control improvement with just a progressive Ti spring. We'll see because we should know soon. Thanks to Renton Coil Spring for their active involvement as well as Fox Racing Shox for the support and help!
Also tested two new onboard video systems to enhance the time commitment. Cool stuff...more on that later.
Now going to work on an improved rear spring system for the zero pro on this FOX setup. I'm getting it flat out dialed as is but think there might be quite a bit of control improvement with just a progressive Ti spring. We'll see because we should know soon. Thanks to Renton Coil Spring for their active involvement as well as Fox Racing Shox for the support and help!
Rob,
RCS will have those same springs in Cromo... Right???
RCS will have those same springs in Cromo... Right???
Eric I don't know what Renton will be offering for consumers.
Right now we have a Ti progressive rate setup that needs to be tested to see if there is a felt improvement over the bone stock Fox Zero Pro on this new FOX setup for the PRO. Pretty simple stuff...I've got it to install for Friday's test and we will see. They've had really good luck with last years suspensions on the cats. I got excited about the prospects when we talked to them at Puyallup. I wanted to get adequate testing done with the stock spring so that I had viable reference to go from. I feel like I've accomplished a good foundation for this suspension and now we can see if there is a better way through progressive Ti springs versus stock.
We are up over 500 miles with this PRO. I am really enjoying riding it. Having to run way more trail and sub epic snow conditions this season but it's still been a joy to have. It is running really good so far! Everyday I'm just more and more amazed that this is a bone stock engine/exhaust. It really hauls the mail.
A new change that I just innitiated was pulling the Pro Taper stock bars and going to a FLY 10* with a straight riser to stock height. I kept feeling like my other sleds were more comfortable in super aggressive riding and couldn't quite understand it. As it turns out if you look at the rider position of the pro taper bars, and how your hands work on the bars, you are forced to ride with your elbows to your sides/low if you are standing. Those bars are sitdown rider bars if you want to ride aggressively and have your elbows out you can't while you stand. The hand angle is wrong. Walla..new bars with a correct hand angle while you ride elbows out in a standing position and suddenly I have an entirely new hotrod that handles much better when you are really getting after it. Motocross racers and aggressive riders will concure on this theory. You are way stronger and more balanced with your elbows out then at your sides. It turned out to be absolutely the case for my riding style on this PRO. A very little thing that turned out to FEEL HUGE!
Right now we have a Ti progressive rate setup that needs to be tested to see if there is a felt improvement over the bone stock Fox Zero Pro on this new FOX setup for the PRO. Pretty simple stuff...I've got it to install for Friday's test and we will see. They've had really good luck with last years suspensions on the cats. I got excited about the prospects when we talked to them at Puyallup. I wanted to get adequate testing done with the stock spring so that I had viable reference to go from. I feel like I've accomplished a good foundation for this suspension and now we can see if there is a better way through progressive Ti springs versus stock.
We are up over 500 miles with this PRO. I am really enjoying riding it. Having to run way more trail and sub epic snow conditions this season but it's still been a joy to have. It is running really good so far! Everyday I'm just more and more amazed that this is a bone stock engine/exhaust. It really hauls the mail.
A new change that I just innitiated was pulling the Pro Taper stock bars and going to a FLY 10* with a straight riser to stock height. I kept feeling like my other sleds were more comfortable in super aggressive riding and couldn't quite understand it. As it turns out if you look at the rider position of the pro taper bars, and how your hands work on the bars, you are forced to ride with your elbows to your sides/low if you are standing. Those bars are sitdown rider bars if you want to ride aggressively and have your elbows out you can't while you stand. The hand angle is wrong. Walla..new bars with a correct hand angle while you ride elbows out in a standing position and suddenly I have an entirely new hotrod that handles much better when you are really getting after it. Motocross racers and aggressive riders will concure on this theory. You are way stronger and more balanced with your elbows out then at your sides. It turned out to be absolutely the case for my riding style on this PRO. A very little thing that turned out to FEEL HUGE!
Scott, I'm reasonably sure we are coming to Afton this weekend. If so you are more then welcome to try it out. That is what this sled is for! The bad news is there is now supposed to be lots of snow coming at home GRRRRR. I was supposed to be bringing a Carl's PRO turbo for you guys to experience but that got waylayed. Some question as to wether or not we are still even coming now. I'm voting on it though!
Scott also wait until you see this new camera system we've been testing. It's pretty much the coolest thing ever. If the brown van shows up prior to our Thurs leave I'll have em for you guys. Come on UPS don't let us down. Awesome stuff just wait! Pretty stellar reviews from those that have been around em so far. I know I'm really impressed.
Scott also wait until you see this new camera system we've been testing. It's pretty much the coolest thing ever. If the brown van shows up prior to our Thurs leave I'll have em for you guys. Come on UPS don't let us down. Awesome stuff just wait! Pretty stellar reviews from those that have been around em so far. I know I'm really impressed.
I
