Polaris P85 Drive Clutch Service/Setup/BluePrinting

[Double Ds]

ok ? after reading SLP instructions "they say losen all motor mount bolts and adjust the motor" folks say here you need to slot the plate, which one from what I have seen the front motor mount holes are just that, and the rear are slotted can the motor be moved around or do we need to slot the front?

Also I checked one of mine the distance center to center is supposed to be 12.5 and it is with out any tork, so with tork it would be out of spec correct? with out slotting the motor mounts no adjustment correct?

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

ok ? after reading SLP instructions "they say losen all motor mount bolts and adjust the motor" folks say here you need to slot the plate, which one from what I have seen the front motor mount holes are just that, and the rear are slotted can the motor be moved around or do we need to slot the front?

Also I checked one of mine the distance center to center is supposed to be 12.5 and it is with out any tork, so with tork it would be out of spec correct? with out slotting the motor mounts no adjustment correct?

it depends on the sled, but normally if you loosen all the mounts up you can move it around a little bit..i would try that before slotting the mounts...if your alignment is good now before moving it then you need to preload it as ron shows and see how it looks with torque on it.I would want it straight and true under load versus no load...

 

[Ron]

Clutch offset

You can pretty much forget my earlier posts on setting the clutch offset with a straight edge. I might add that most after market tools aren't accurate either.
I stopped by Carl's and looked at the dealer tool for setting offset. It's a Polaris tool that does two things-
1. It has the offset built into the tool for the engine being cocked forward. Most aftermarket tools don't.
2. The Polaris tool uses the fixed sheave of the drive clutch to measure against the fixed sheave of the driven. The measurement is taken with the drive clutch pulled toward you and then float will reduce offset. This float should be .030 to .050.
Jack (Carl's) gave me some feedback on why a straight edge won't be accurate. The inside of the driven clutch moves and depending on bushing wear and the single point of adjustment (allen bolt) that outer sheave doesn't sit square. Mine was square with the adjustment allen backed out but was off .030 with the tool screwed in as I descrived earlier. Just the process of moving the sheave with the belt deflection adjustment changes the offset on the inside thus the use of a fixed to fixed adjustment tool is the only accurate way to measure.

I ran a straight edge along the back of my drive clutch past the driven and then took measurements at the near and far side of the driven. There is about 3/16" wider gap at the back. That's the disadvantage of most AM tools including the one from Team that don't allow for the canted engine. You might get by pulling the drive clutch foreward with a clamp and then using one of those straight tools-if it uses the front fixed face of the driven.
Polaris recommends offset of 17 Millimeters @ .03937 per inch that is about .67" of offset. So the clutch should float between the .67" at full shift and .62" max in midrange.
There have been a lot of aftermarket tools sold with offset of .0625 and no instructions for "float".
Do all dealers check offset during setup....probably not.

 

[shortstop20]

Ron, could you get a PN for this tool?

I have always measured with my button clutch tool just because I already had one, but I can now see why the measurement wouldn't be correct since it sits along the moveable sheave of the Team clutch. Fixed to fixed sounds like the way to go, and if Jack recommends it, I'm sure it's the real deal.

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

OK try to figure this out.....I bought a team aftermarket tool from fastrax part #930716 which is for the newer team secondary and is suppose to work on my 08 RMK 600 that calls for the same belt 115. Destuctions say hold the bar on the outer (fixed) portion of the secondary with the secondary pushed in tight against shims and the JOG (Offset of the bar) should either JUST contact the inner part of the primary fixed clutch face or have no more than .030 clearance. Great; Then to check Parallelism there is a x on the back side of the jog and a Y on the forward part of the jog that you should measure to the same point of the primary inner outer edge(widest part of fixed primary sheave) and compare these figures. They should be equal or y must not exceed x by more than .060. This is to compensate for engine torque.

Well I then went to work (BIG MISTAKE) trying to check this tool and figured if you take the thickness of the outer edge of the sheave the bar sits on to the belt, Plus the width of the belt, Minus the taper of the belt (1/2), it SHOULD add up to the offset of the tool right???

NOPE--- so someone please help me make sence of this

Here's my figures ;Thickness of secondary sheave to belt-.190 ,PLUS thickness of belt Mine are 1.44-1.45, Book says 1.46 so we will use that, MINUS thickness of taper on half the belt to get to where offset tool is measuring to, I came up with .155 (outside width - inner taper width devided by 2, plus .010 for half of the .020 belt clearance i have set into the primary,EQUALS---1.505 Well my Tool measures 1.340 offset (as always my tool is tooo short) Soo what am I missing other than snow????

A spokane dealership was kind enough to measure there tool offset and and there's came up to 1.7?? so don't know if they were measuring the same spot or not so was going to order another one and asked what they came up with and it was the pn I have....Go Figure

ALSO to throw another wrench in the mix Western power sports show a differant tool for electic start but nothing should change from where I am measuring from on either model so HELP

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Ron, could you get a PN for this tool?

I have always measured with my button clutch tool just because I already had one, but I can now see why the measurement wouldn't be correct since it sits along the moveable sheave of the Team clutch. Fixed to fixed sounds like the way to go, and if Jack recommends it, I'm sure it's the real deal.

I have the factory polaris tool..will have to look up the part # but it does work very slick..k....no pic but here is the part # and description.......Snowmobile Special Tools > Clutch Tools > PS-47477

PS-47477 LIGHT WEIGHT TEAM DRIVEN CLUTCH ALIGNMENT BAR
Used to align the TEAM Light Weight drive clutches on all 2007 Polaris snowmobiles, excluding the Wide Trak LX

heres a few pics of mine..first pic shows part # second pic is position on sled with primary clutch on the left and secondary on the right, you can only buy this tool from your dealer..

...

 

[Ron]

Tree_Magnate-I thought my attempts at confusion were tops but you win, ha ha. I gave up and ordered the Polaris tool. Trying to account for the angle like Fastrax is going to be near impossible. I've found that unless you can use an accurate measuring device the measurements are just too difficult as Fastrax describes the process. I have to admit it's too late in the day to follow your thoughts on getting at the number the other way.
There is likely some engineering involved in deciding the 17mm offset that Poo is looking for the belt to be straight at full shift. Full shift is something less than all the way to the top of the drive clutch and all the way to the bottom of the driven. Belts are different lengths, width, amount of wear-no two are exactly the same. I guess that's why the floating secondary, to get the belt straight in mid range where the clutch functions most of the time.
AK could probably lay a straight edge along his tool and measure the mid point for the driven to get you a close number. It has to be more than the width of the belt, around 2 1/4".

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

well, putting a tape on it wont do much good , where it sits in the primary it is tapered to lay right against the face of the drive clutch stationary sheave...and when you put it on a clutch it doesnt sit all the way down to the center.it sits up off it a ways so you would have a hard time ever establishing this point without the tool...

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

Ron I better clarify that I ordered the tool through fastrax. They ordered it from Western power sports and was one of the first they ordered and also ordered one for themselves(according to Curt). After having a Good talk with Curt this morning he admits he uses the good ole reliable eye sight at half shift with the rear knee vent removed. I had the top belt cover removed AND the gear and chain out of the 600 RMK so I could sight down from the top and it LOOKED ok at half shift. Tommorrow I am going to take All the shims Behind and on the bolt out and see where it likes to self center itself at half shift. Will post results if I still have fingers left

 

[TimG]

Looking at the factory Polaris tool, it looks very much like my SLP tool, with the front of the tool fitting on the fixed primary sheave, and the rear of the tool made to contact the outside of the fixed secondary sheave. What makes it different/ better? And what's the final word on the "twist"? How much of a gap should there be at the back of the secondary if the tool is touching the front? Ron, in your post, you said that your sled had a 3/16" difference. Is that the norm? I guess if it is, my 1/4" is pretty close. Thanks.

 

[krat]

On the first page, where all these torque spec coming from?
I torque my primary bolt to 40-45 ft.lbs (found in the service manual) and I'm always having a hell of hard time to remove the clucth afterwards.

So how you guys are doing when it come the time to remove the clutch after being torque at 96 ft.lbs?

 

[Ron]

Looking at the factory Polaris tool, it looks very much like my SLP tool, with the front of the tool fitting on the fixed primary sheave, and the rear of the tool made to contact the outside of the fixed secondary sheave. What makes it different/ better? And what's the final word on the "twist"? How much of a gap should there be at the back of the secondary if the tool is touching the front? Ron, in your post, you said that your sled had a 3/16" difference. Is that the norm? I guess if it is, my 1/4" is pretty close. Thanks.

Tim,
The amount of twist in the engine will depend on the amount of clearance you set on the torque stop. Polaris says .010 to .020. The engine will move toward the driven until it makes contact with the torque stop. Don't know of any spec for the engine alignment except that they are canted forward so that they straighten under load. If you can accurately measure the clutch center distance that would give you a starting point. Mine was about 1/16" to maybe an 1/8", the distance will increase the farther away from the engine you take the measurement. Most of us won't have the tools to get an exact number. Calipers with a 12" jaw would work, mine won't open that far.
Just for fun I put a straight edge at the rear of the drive slutch & ran it past the driven to see how the angle changed the distance to the fixed sheaves of the driven. On the near side of the driven fixed sheave vs the far side the difference was 3/16".
Whatever actual amount that "offset angle" is built into the Polaris alignment tool. You might get close using an aftermarket tool, but will be more exact with the Polaris one, IMO.

On the first page, where all these torque spec coming from?
I torque my primary bolt to 40-45 ft.lbs (found in the service manual) and I'm always having a hell of hard time to remove the clucth afterwards.
So how you guys are doing when it come the time to remove the clutch after being torque at 96 ft.lbs?

Polaris recommends different torque settings for different applications. Older Fuji engines were at 45 lbs to the 900 at 96lbs. There is some discussion by Indy Dan in this thread about clutch torque that's worth reading. Basically, my understanding is that lack of torque can result in the clutch spinning on the crank stub an improper seating of the clutch. These factors will make the clutch more difficult to remove not the amount of torque applied initially.

 

[Ron]

Clutch Offset

My new clutch offset tool came yesterday. The list price was actually $125 and has since gone up to $140. Unfortunately it's probably the only way to get the measurement accurate. The tool is designed with the twist of the engine built in and measures fixed sheave to fixed sheave. The rear sheave on a team is not flush with the belt removed. The single contact on the adjustment bolt leaves the inner sheave cocked at an angle. Also, you are measuring in thousandths of an inch. Even with the Polaris tool it takes some care to get it settled in the drive clutch properly. The following chart shows the process and the tool PN. I have updated the file I've been sending out to those wanting a clean copy of the above posts & have sent copies to those requesting them.
In the next day or two I'll check my 2009 clutch offset and post more info on what I find. The offset is measured at the maximum and the second step after offset is seting the "float" (.030-.050) in the driven.

 

[thewayout84]

the belt with partnumber: 3211111 in the belt chart on first page, are that info correct about the length and width? the polaris aftermarket catalog i have doesn't say the same?

 

[Ron]

the belt with partnumber: 3211111 in the belt chart on first page, are that info correct about the length and width? the polaris aftermarket catalog i have doesn't say the same?

I'm looking at the 2009 accessories book and the 1111 is no longer listed. That (center to center) has to be a misprint based on the outside diameter. That was an actual Polaris chart but here is the new one below, sorry for the poor pic quality. Looks like the 1111 has been discontinued.

 

[thewayout84]

thx ron for the chart...actually i got two new 3211111 belt that i am going to burn up before i use my 115 belt. do you know how much belt to sheave clearance change from 10 too 11 series polaris weights? if i got 0,035 now, neccesary to reshim spider?

 

[Ron]

Sorry I don't know, Polaris service manual doesn't add anything either. It's a good idea to install the weights and check clearance again.

 

[krat]

This is what you get when adding the p/n in the psn cart :
BELT-DRIVE,1.438,11.5CD,HP (3211111) $176.39

1115 dimension is also wrong on the first page...

 

[Ron]

Actually the belt sizes are correct they just list the wrong clutch center distance. Here's the belt chart for the IQ sleds, a little easier to read.

 

[73 Starfire]

Perhaps I missed it in an earlier post, but if "perfect" alignment can be achieved should the driven be flush against the shims and all of the float be to the outside? Or should the float be set so that the driven under "perfect" alignment conditions is centered in the proper float range, i.e .030-.050?