Pacific NW Crossover sled owners or trail riders who think their sleds perform well off trail

[Wsunate]

I put PNW in the title as I'm mostly looking for opinions from folks here in the west. Also, I'm new to this group so if this should be elsewhere, let me know.

I'm in a conundrum and I'll try to make the back story short.
Wife and I are early 60's, retired and have ridden since the 80's on Arctic Cat Jag, Yamaha enticer/exciter and RMK albeit predominantly trails. Got out of riding for 15 years then recently got back in with Yamaha Phazers. Got stuck all the time and those things were heavy!
I fixed the getting stuck part when I traded off the Phazers and bought us 2021 Summit SP 154 600, one with 2.5 and one with 3inch tracks. However, during my research I clearly glossed over the trail riding characteristics of these mountain sleds...I mean, I live in the mountains, right? So they should be fine! We have come to discover the Summit is at home in deep snow but does not have great trail manners. And we're also not comfortable as deep snow, deep backcountry riders.
It's also worth noting that we like to get out mid week without the crowds and when we get off trail or get stuck, we need to be able to self-rescue. We like to ride pretty fast including my wife. We're definitely not mountain-riding trained but I don't see us getting into it, having tried Revelstoke and being amazed by the great snow and our lack of ability to ride it! Also, before everyone skewers me, I do have nearly every sno-bunje self-rescue thing, we use radios, Garmin inReach, first aid, saw, etc.

So facing the reality that we want to ride trails and still be able to get off and play in more gentle off trail terrain, the crossover segment seems appealing.
Riding locations: we ride eastern Washington and north Idaho as home. We want to ride McCall, Island Park and other places we haven't heard of yet.

For those of you who can identify with our riding scenario and ride crossovers or trail sleds that you think do well in play areas, I'm interested in your real world impressions about the pros and cons of your setups. If you ride a mountain sled that handles trails well, I'm interested also although it got pretty expensive when I looked into switching the front end and changing the track. My current research includes Ski-Doo Backcountry and Polaris Switchback but within those, there are several variants.

We're quite happy with our 600's so I don't see a need for 850 or turbo. I'm also not partial to a brand. In the crossover category, I wonder if the longer lugged track options might be better for our theoretical 60 trail/40 off-trail riding but that's why I'm here asking for real world experiences.
What limitations and positives have you discovered?

Thanks in advance
Nathan

 

[volcano buster]

I think you have set your expectations to match a cross-over style sled quite well.
You will be wanting the wider front end to handle the trail speeds and a longer track with medium height lugs to handle the ungroomed or off trail situations. I don't think that style sled should be too extremely heavy that you can't self recover either.
In reality, it wasn't that long ago that the hills were being combed with sleds similarly capable and guys were having a ball doing it. Now that more capable machines are out there you just need to set the bar for your expectations. I think you are on the right track.

 

[Heavymodd]

I ride a ton of trails with my family but I will add it's also in the west were the trails have sufficient snow and I love a 2.5" track. For the mornings when the base may be a little firm I throw down the scratchers and never have a problem. I think you should stay with the 38" stance range for trails riding stability but it also gives you the play factor for going off trail. A 154 track i find for trail riding is a little long and can be nose heavy with more ski weight. A 146" track is the best for all worlds. Steers nice on the trail yet offers the floatation for playing off trail. My 80 year old father still rides and he is on a 16 backcountry 600 146x 1.6 track as he don't go off trail much but even a 2" track on that sled would make it a weapon on and off trail.
Happy riding and good luck with your find.

 

[Wsunate]

I ride a ton of trails with my family but I will add it's also in the west were the trails have sufficient snow and I love a 2.5" track. For the mornings when the base may be a little firm I throw down the scratchers and never have a problem. I think you should stay with the 38" stance range for trails riding stability but it also gives you the play factor for going off trail. A 154 track i find for trail riding is a little long and can be nose heavy with more ski weight. A 146" track is the best for all worlds. Steers nice on the trail yet offers the floatation for playing off trail. My 80 year old father still rides and he is on a 16 backcountry 600 146x 1.6 track as he don't go off trail much but even a 2" track on that sled would make it a weapon on and off trail.
Happy riding and good luck with your find.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've wondered about putting a 2inch track on the Summit but was concerned about the track length. I have thought about the narrower stance as well which is why the crossover platform is appealing with its adjustability from 38-40".

 

[Sled Solutions]

I've been facing the same dilemma here in the midwest. I have a Khaos that I'm not selling but with winters being as thin as they have been I want something that will do both, play on logging roads and open meadows and do a little trail riding. An Assault is going to do trails really well and deep snow fine but it's wide front end will make it tough to carve. I rode one of the 2022's before they were released with Polaris and it's a lot to get on it's side. It can be done but you need a good amount of snow. For me an Assault with a 39" front end on it with a 146" x 2" track and grippers is what I want. Now Polaris made that in 23 and 24 in the SKS 146 but they only came in a 650......that is the route I'm going. I'm selling my daughters SKS 800 155 and she'll ride the 146 when we all go out and when she isn't riding I can ride it to boom around logging roads.

 

[Wsunate]

I've been facing the same dilemma here in the midwest. I have a Khaos that I'm not selling but with winters being as thin as they have been I want something that will do both, play on logging roads and open meadows and do a little trail riding. An Assault is going to do trails really well and deep snow fine but it's wide front end will make it tough to carve. I rode one of the 2022's before they were released with Polaris and it's a lot to get on its side. It can be done but you need a good amount of snow. For me an Assault with a 39" front end on it with a 146" x 2" track and grippers is what I want. Now Polaris made that in 23 and 24 in the SKS 146 but they only came in a 650......that is the route I'm going. I'm selling my daughters SKS 800 155 and she'll ride the 146 when we all go out and when she isn't riding I can ride it to boom around logging roads.

That Assault you’re describing seems like the ticket. I’ve heard some excellent feedback on the Matryx platform and the Polaris Gripper skis. The 2inch track seems like it would allow a decent amount of playing…heck as Volcano buster mentioned, that was the track we were riding 20 years ago and getting off trail decently, just not climbing mountains and riding the steep and deep of today. Thanks for your thoughts

 

[eddy]

You have great machines for what you want to do now. No mods necessary other than personal preference. Those 600's will run almost forever and the trail manners of the Gen4 mountain chassis can be tuned to perform fine on the trail. Is it a snow cross machine? No. Is it a turbo 175 mountain machine? No. Is it a good all round machine for what you need? In my opinion, Yes.
My credentials are limited to 56 years riding PNW, BC and Rockies.
In my opinion the cross over machines hurt the backcountry ability more than they help the on trail experience. The 154 and 165 3" tracks definitely get stuck less and make deep snow more ridable.
By the time you are worried about inside ski lift on trail you are probably going faster than what is advisable on a groomed two way trail with any other machines.
Donate the extra money you want to spend on new machines to the legal fund of your local snowmobile club(s) so you have a place to ride!

 

[Sled Solutions]

That Assault you’re describing seems like the ticket. I’ve heard some excellent feedback on the Matryx platform and the Polaris Gripper skis. The 2inch track seems like it would allow a decent amount of playing…heck as Volcano buster mentioned, that was the track we were riding 20 years ago and getting off trail decently, just not climbing mountains and riding the steep and deep of today. Thanks for your thoughts

The Matryx chassis is incredible, it's amazing how much better a model year change can make. I once thought the Axys was a great chassis which it was but little tweaks and new ergo's make the Matryx that much better. The 650 is very impressive, I was able to ride them when they first came out which is why I wasn't worried about the SKS 146 only coming with a 650. For it's purpose it will work great! Deal is done, I'm just waiting for it to arrive at the dealer so I can go get it. I'll report back after I get some seat time on the new one.

 

[Sooner]

I put PNW in the title as I'm mostly looking for opinions from folks here in the west. Also, I'm new to this group so if this should be elsewhere, let me know.

I'm in a conundrum and I'll try to make the back story short.
Wife and I are early 60's, retired and have ridden since the 80's on Arctic Cat Jag, Yamaha enticer/exciter and RMK albeit predominantly trails. Got out of riding for 15 years then recently got back in with Yamaha Phazers. Got stuck all the time and those things were heavy!
I fixed the getting stuck part when I traded off the Phazers and bought us 2021 Summit SP 154 600, one with 2.5 and one with 3inch tracks. However, during my research I clearly glossed over the trail riding characteristics of these mountain sleds...I mean, I live in the mountains, right? So they should be fine! We have come to discover the Summit is at home in deep snow but does not have great trail manners. And we're also not comfortable as deep snow, deep backcountry riders.
It's also worth noting that we like to get out mid week without the crowds and when we get off trail or get stuck, we need to be able to self-rescue. We like to ride pretty fast including my wife. We're definitely not mountain-riding trained but I don't see us getting into it, having tried Revelstoke and being amazed by the great snow and our lack of ability to ride it! Also, before everyone skewers me, I do have nearly every sno-bunje self-rescue thing, we use radios, Garmin inReach, first aid, saw, etc.

So facing the reality that we want to ride trails and still be able to get off and play in more gentle off trail terrain, the crossover segment seems appealing.
Riding locations: we ride eastern Washington and north Idaho as home. We want to ride McCall, Island Park and other places we haven't heard of yet.

For those of you who can identify with our riding scenario and ride crossovers or trail sleds that you think do well in play areas, I'm interested in your real world impressions about the pros and cons of your setups. If you ride a mountain sled that handles trails well, I'm interested also although it got pretty expensive when I looked into switching the front end and changing the track. My current research includes Ski-Doo Backcountry and Polaris Switchback but within those, there are several variants.

We're quite happy with our 600's so I don't see a need for 850 or turbo. I'm also not partial to a brand. In the crossover category, I wonder if the longer lugged track options might be better for our theoretical 60 trail/40 off-trail riding but that's why I'm here asking for real world experiences.
What limitations and positives have you discovered?

Thanks in advance
Nathan

You wrote: "And we're also not comfortable as deep snow, deep backcountry riders."
Have you considered making a trip to visit one of the deep snow, back country riding clinics? I know I could benefit just haven't got there yet.

 

[Wsunate]

You wrote: "And we're also not comfortable as deep snow, deep backcountry riders."
Have you considered making a trip to visit one of the deep snow, back country riding clinics? I know I could benefit just haven't got there yet.

Yep, had that planned to visit Ride Rasmussen style this year but timing didn't work out. Unfortunately that doesn't help my wife who isn't super interested in backcountry riding. I may still do the clinic next year and try to teach her some basics. But honestly, we're probably doing more trail riding with easy off trail thrown in periodically.
Thanks for the idea though! From what I've seen both Brett and his daughter present at snow shows, I think the clinics would be really useful for a noob like myself.

 

[Wsunate]

The Matryx chassis is incredible, it's amazing how much better a model year change can make. I once thought the Axys was a great chassis which it was but little tweaks and new ergo's make the Matryx that much better. The 650 is very impressive, I was able to ride them when they first came out which is why I wasn't worried about the SKS 146 only coming with a 650. For it's purpose it will work great! Deal is done, I'm just waiting for it to arrive at the dealer so I can go get it. I'll report back after I get some seat time on the new one.

Just wondering if you've got the new sled, what it is, and what you're impressions are.