If that is what it looks like there is something slipping. My P85 only looks like that when snow gets on the sheaves.
P22 or P85
- Thread starter TRS
- Start date
Not taking the bait!!!
From “Clutching the P22”
Quote from Fosgate
Think this might be why Polaris has the style of weights that they are using on this maybe? Seeing the pitting on the clutch face where it makes contact when the belt is pushed out by using EPI T76 weights. Maybe the stock weights by not pushing the belt all the way out avoids some if not all this contact wear while sacrificing performance.
Our thought has been so many years that the belt needs to be pushed out to a certain depth, but with the self adjusting tension maybe this is the way engineers want it. If you think about it, knowing how turbos were always finicky and breaking stuff not uncommon. How would you bring one to market that wouldn't always be in the shop and loose any profit the company made in the warranty period? For sure you want it running well, but you don't want it running peak efficiency to eat parts. I'd turn down the boost a bit and mess with the clutching. Owners can mess with that and get peak efficiency from there, but it will be out of their pocket, not the companies.
This is why I think Polaris purposely built and setup this clutch this way and don't really think they will offer anything different on the 23 boost or 900r. Power and potential is there, it's just up to us to tap into it at our own risk. Tapping into the performance of the machine I think your right in tossing the P85 back in. Guys flashing the ecm and twin pipes with stage1,2 kits etc and going all out I think the P85 at this point is essential.
Quote from Fosgate
Think this might be why Polaris has the style of weights that they are using on this maybe? Seeing the pitting on the clutch face where it makes contact when the belt is pushed out by using EPI T76 weights. Maybe the stock weights by not pushing the belt all the way out avoids some if not all this contact wear while sacrificing performance.
Our thought has been so many years that the belt needs to be pushed out to a certain depth, but with the self adjusting tension maybe this is the way engineers want it. If you think about it, knowing how turbos were always finicky and breaking stuff not uncommon. How would you bring one to market that wouldn't always be in the shop and loose any profit the company made in the warranty period? For sure you want it running well, but you don't want it running peak efficiency to eat parts. I'd turn down the boost a bit and mess with the clutching. Owners can mess with that and get peak efficiency from there, but it will be out of their pocket, not the companies.
This is why I think Polaris purposely built and setup this clutch this way and don't really think they will offer anything different on the 23 boost or 900r. Power and potential is there, it's just up to us to tap into it at our own risk. Tapping into the performance of the machine I think your right in tossing the P85 back in. Guys flashing the ecm and twin pipes with stage1,2 kits etc and going all out I think the P85 at this point is essential.
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Its been years of this basic clutch on the rzrs and they still havent handled the slipping or reliability issues.
I must be feeling too nice today or maybe feeling sorry for you? But I must admit, my first reaction to this was a doozy Chilly.
It looks like the weights are having a hard time overcoming the spring pressure causing slipping and inconsistent performance. Maybe the belt squeeze is exceeding the durometer of the belt. Maybe secondary isn’t backshifting. Looks like you had a brief downhill/lightly loaded Wfo burst.
If you add clutch weight or change primary spring to fix the slipping then it lowers rpm or it overcomes the secondary, makes heat and backshift suffers. On a P85, no big deal. The p-22 with minimal tuning parts, combined with the tuning limitation of the roller bearing setup, one runs into the dreaded clutching dead-end. Sadness ensues, credit card comes out, p85 is purchased, happiness occurs! But don’t despair about the low rpm engagement. Use a 100lb start rate and .015-.025” clearance. It’ll start out silky smooth like an electric sled!
I’d guess a 7%+ gain with a P85 plus less belt wear out savings from less slippage.
Hopefully throttle burping sound can be “reet, reet” instead of “awaaah, awaaah.” You know ya wanna make those sled noises. Haha
Sorry for the off topic hijack TRS. I felt like clutch yappin’ I get excited when clutching peeps gather.
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Great thread and information guys. Absolutely loved the Boost this season, but really missed to low end engagement and torque of my 2021 NA for getting the sled on edge in tricky downhill to sidehill/uphill transitions. I am certainly interested in pulling off my P22 now to inspect further after reading here. Looks like I am going to keep my 2022 for next season, so maybe the P85 is worth looking into.......
Tony- will definitely be in touch over the summer.......
Tony- will definitely be in touch over the summer.......
R
Reddragon800
Well-known member
Not enough tip squeeze to push the belt up the primary. the felt over rubber is a clear indication.
R
Reddragon800
Well-known member
The primary spring final rate is a bit high and the secondary spring rate is low. The initial 165/310 is needed with the stock weights as they are heel and mid weighted. Running some BBT 76g weights with a 120/285 spring and a glide washer works really well. Add a 160/260 qpring in the secondary with a bearing or delrin washer for better belt hold.
Regardless of the clutching, the gearing is still too high. 1-1 shift on the QD2 is 74mph. you never going to get there in deep snow. i have been running a 29/69 gear ratio and that has helped a ton. would like a 28/69 gear ratio, but thats not available yet. These 216 belts are very hard and need more spring pressure to prevent slipping.
Regardless of the clutching, the gearing is still too high. 1-1 shift on the QD2 is 74mph. you never going to get there in deep snow. i have been running a 29/69 gear ratio and that has helped a ton. would like a 28/69 gear ratio, but thats not available yet. These 216 belts are very hard and need more spring pressure to prevent slipping.
R
Reddragon800
Well-known member
The primary spring final rate is a bit high and the secondary spring rate is low. The initial 165/310 is needed with the stock weights as they are heel and mid weighted. Running some BBT 76g weights with a 120/285 spring and a glide washer works really well. Add a 160/260 qpring in the secondary with a bearing or delrin washer for better belt hold.
Regardless of the clutching, the gearing is still too high. 1-1 shift on the QD2 is 74mph. you never going to get there in deep snow. i have been running a 29/69 gear ratio and that has helped a ton. would like a 28/69 gear ratio, but thats not available yet. These 216 belts are very hard and need more spring pressure to prevent slipping.
Regardless of the clutching, the gearing is still too high. 1-1 shift on the QD2 is 74mph. you never going to get there in deep snow. i have been running a 29/69 gear ratio and that has helped a ton. would like a 28/69 gear ratio, but thats not available yet. These 216 belts are very hard and need more spring pressure to prevent slipping.
^^^^ this. You would be surprised how many guys think they need high gearing for a turbo.
I think a lot of them assume it's needed to build boost quicker at lower RPM.
Have you found the same on the turbo with P22? I have no time with the p22 myself. I just following along. Fun fact-My all time favorite Polaris spring is an Aaen orange 120/285, 134-136 rate. Olav wouldn’t tell me where he gets them made and I bought his last 4. Maybe he has more now.
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R
Reddragon800
Well-known member
This is all on the P22.
Quick question, if I swapped out my p22 for a p85, wouldn’t I also need to swap out my secondary so that I could adjust belt deflection?
Also, I noticed Polaris has updated online parts catalog for most 2023 models. Couldn’t find any major changes from 2022 - 2023 (just compared p22 on the boost) so I’m hoping the new bolt solves the problem.
The 9R has the following components:
Primary spring 140/330
Primary weight 14 - 72
Secondary helix 56/42.36
Secondary spring - no indication other than Polaris part number shows it’s the same spring as the boost.
No sure what all this means as I just starting to try to understand clutching and it still seems like witchcraft to me. Just though I would post so that some of the greater minds on here could give insight if they felt like doing so.
Also, I noticed Polaris has updated online parts catalog for most 2023 models. Couldn’t find any major changes from 2022 - 2023 (just compared p22 on the boost) so I’m hoping the new bolt solves the problem.
The 9R has the following components:
Primary spring 140/330
Primary weight 14 - 72
Secondary helix 56/42.36
Secondary spring - no indication other than Polaris part number shows it’s the same spring as the boost.
No sure what all this means as I just starting to try to understand clutching and it still seems like witchcraft to me. Just though I would post so that some of the greater minds on here could give insight if they felt like doing so.
All you need is the adjustment bolt and nut for the secondary.
I get P22 in all the time for balancing and I see the same thing the belt does not come anywhere near the top...the spider bottoms out on the cover, can't open any wider..I looked at making it open wider but the weight is at the very tip of the weight as it is!!! same with the secondary it is the same distance from the bottom..so much track speed is lost...
YOU NEED the defection bolt in your secondary!!!! If you have a P22 clutching with the stock TSS-04 you need the defection bolt!!! every TSS I balance with out the defection bolt is over 100 lbs out of balance!!! Until I add a defection bolt...we posted it on our website to show the TSS has a counter balance built into the clutch to be used with the bolt!!
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