OVS 2010 M-8 TIAL TURBO DYNO

[Johnmaster]

Propane has a lower BTU content and in NA 4 stroke applications that is the truth, you'll usually get about 80% of the power as gasoline burning the same volume of fuel in a healthy motor. I think in this case the fuel system is a big crutch that the fuel controllers try to work around, with propane having it's own fuel system specifically tailored to this application it helps it make more power more efficiently (or at least closer to the same). Propane also gives a much cooler charge.

In my mind it would be the equivalent of having a car with a carburetor with the wrong jets, squirters, cams and float level. It would be great if you could just fix all of those problems but if you can't then a more efficient fuel system will give it more power and better economy in spite of the slight difference in btu of the fuels. It's just a bonus that the fuel is a third the cost or better than equivalent octane.

This is my opinion, maybe Travis can confirm or deny some of my ramblings.

 

[Pure Logic Tuning]

The propane sled in testing did not get any different fuel mileage than the race gas sled's running the same boost. If anything the propane sled got better mileage because it got ridin constantly and we wanted to see if we could break it. I am not much for dyno numbers but when you are building a pipe you have to have a base line. OVS new after testing last year that the new 800 made great power with the new Tial kit with the hybred Compressor housing that we include in this kit. If you are in question of the dyno numbers contact C.P.I. pipes Mike is very straight up guy and he was shocked at the power that the new 2010 800 was producing. Mike also would not want to release fictional numbers on the stock pipe and then build the new 800 turbo pipe hoping to make more power. C.P.I. 801-829-5877.

 

[Reeb]

It is lip service! We don't care what you can make in a engine lab at 4600ft, bring real world HP #er's, from real world elevation, on a chassis dyno With a graph, Sounds like 230-230 to the track to me.

WTH??

4600ft is better than corrected numbers for sea level. Also....what kind of efficiency are you thinking sleds get to the track? If we are talking 300hp at the crank and you call 230hp at the track you're so far out in left field you might as well have packed a lunch!

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Its simple math,, 2 stroke turbos are very consistent at making predicted power..
ie. 150 base hp, 8 psi boost, 50% power increase or slightly more if you did a really good job.
The dyno figures for the CAT above make PERFECT sense.. 310 + with the right size compressor at 15 psi would be the outcome..

chassis dynos ( inertia dyno ) is a nice fairytale tool,, the factors that dynojet use are mythical.. when proper factors ( view bob bergeron's formula ) its much much lower than dynojet figures..

why people are so dyno driven when it comes to turbos confounds me.

the power is there, manage it and have fun

Gus

If its simple then build your own turbo kit, your random numbers are mythical. Your throwing a 50% number into so many real factors. Like, stroke, bore, port timing etc.... I'm no tech freak but have enough common sense to know you can't say something like 1lb of boost is equal to 10hp like so many do. Ask any turbo builder.
I do agree, a dyno doesn't mean jack in the real world.

 

[glassman]

Sorry guys, i missed the bit about the weights of the systems. I really like the sound of this. So no starting issues in the cold like the propane systems of old? I have two buddies who want to turbo, but dont want the tuning. This sounds like it is more of a user friendly system. Big boost at 1/3 the cost is wicked.

So is there a kit comming for the new rmk? Could be my next summer project.
Might be doing one this year, as i just found out one buddy is picking up an RMK this year.

 

[Sparx]

I asked about this and supposedly it's not much of an issue and they have had the sled in cold weather starting as well with no issues. Worst case scenario I think is you get one of them inline coolant heaters that are pretty universal and plug them in for 15-30mins since us Alberta boys sometimes ride in -30C weather! Haha... Most of the time we have it garaged anyways, ever try starting an M1000 or King Cat at -30C or colder? Not fun.....

So many benefits to the kit that it's hard not to want it when going turbo. Probably pay off the difference between the race gas cost in Canada in one season of riding alone(1000miles)...

 

[glassman]

You know those cold mornings when you are driving in -30 but it is cloudy until you get into the alpine and it is -10. Im just wondering, do i have to bring a generator to run a heater inside my trailer just to get it started. I know it is not all the time, but it happens. I guess i would have to leave the heater on in the trailer when traveling.

 

[Sparx]

Well if you have a heater in your trailer, even better! I seriously don't think it'll be a problem. I mentioned to Travis that I ride in -20C weather and he said they haven't had problems starting in those temps. Alot of people don't ride in much colder weather, especially in the mountains, but I know, it does happen and we aren't heading home cause of it either!

If you have a generator on top of the heater in the trailer, then buy one of them inline coolant heaters that clamp right in. Might even be abled to get them in both 12V and 120V? Then plug it in the generator for 15mins while your getting geared up. But as I said, supposedly it's not an issue at all. No worse then the 4 stroke sleds trying to start in those temps, or even as stated, M1000's and other big blocks like the RT1000. When you have to pull the sparkplugs to loosen them up, it's pretty cold out!

I'm definitely going to be running this sled this winter, feel free to come over and talk to me, and see first hand how it works if your interested in the sled. I'm willing to give it a try. I understand there may be flaws, and I'm willing to find them, nothing is perfect. I'm sure we could pick apart every turbo kit out there, I think this one will work best for what I want out of a kit in the end....

 

[dubbs]

It is lip service! We don't care what you can make in a engine lab at 4600ft, bring real world HP #er's, from real world elevation, on a chassis dyno With a graph, Sounds like 230-230 to the track to me.

"We don't care about what you can make"... Speak for yourself man, your comment doesn't represent my thinking that's for sure.

Travis provided enough info in my opinion, these numbers are a base line and are only intended for that purpose. I think he said he will post the graphs when everything is done.

You obviously haven't had any experience with OVS's kits because if you had you would know how well they work. Settle down!

 

[BigAir]

If its simple then build your own turbo kit, your random numbers are mythical. Your throwing a 50% number into so many real factors. Like, stroke, bore, port timing etc.... I'm no tech freak but have enough common sense to know you can't say something like 1lb of boost is equal to 10hp like so many do. Ask any turbo builder.
I do agree, a dyno doesn't mean jack in the real world.

You must not have have read very many of Gus' posts on here. I have been wrong before, but from what I have read he seems to know more about turbos than half the big name guys building and selling kits.

 

[winter brew]

If its simple then build your own turbo kit, your random numbers are mythical. Your throwing a 50% number into so many real factors. Like, stroke, bore, port timing etc.... I'm no tech freak but have enough common sense to know you can't say something like 1lb of boost is equal to 10hp like so many do. Ask any turbo builder.
I do agree, a dyno doesn't mean jack in the real world.

Gus has done a turbo...or 2...or...alot. Probably as much or more experience than anyone out there.

 

[gus bohne]

If its simple then build your own turbo kit, your random numbers are mythical. Your throwing a 50% number into so many real factors. Like, stroke, bore, port timing etc.... I'm no tech freak but have enough common sense to know you can't say something like 1lb of boost is equal to 10hp like so many do. Ask any turbo builder.
I do agree, a dyno doesn't mean jack in the real world.

I not only build my own turbos but many others as well,, my numbers are not mythical, not by any stretch.


please re read,,
There is NO 10 psi = 10 hp. 50 % power is gained at 8 psi which is half an atmosphere of additional pressure.

how much per pound of boost is that ?? depends on what the base power was to start with, bore , stroke and porttime fiqures are not part of this factor.

portime does have a large factor ON ITS OWN,, and can make it less or much more,, but the 50% factor just like the 100% factor 0f 15 psi is very accurate.
get some good dyno test, look at the fiqures and learn..

at 7 psi the 100 hp 648cc engine picked up to 147 hp..
at 14 psi it made exactly 200 hp.

the 800 NON ho rev engine is 140 hp on my dynomite, with the cpi kit as it was delivered,, it made 215 hp @ 10 psi, at 15 psi 242 hp, 22 psi 251 hp..too hott,!!!!
Like I wrote above,, correctly sized turbo,, the cpi unit is much to small..

NOW the same sled has a 2876 garrett,, at 15 psi the engine now makes 281 hp.. 330 hp at 22 psi.. no intercooler,, we will be testing again in 3 weeks with an air to water frozen boost ( shogun ) barrel type..bet we see another 25 or better hp at same boost..

2 stroke turbos are fun and very easy to predict .

Gus

fwiw......Josh Mosher will race this sled agin this year in power adder twins on ice. the tra is now gettin tossed for a micro 4 weight.

regardless of instrumentation used, knowing what the accumulated data means and how to use it is what makes a good tuner /operator.

just sharing the knowledge for the better of the turbo users ..

 

[RKT]

I not only build my own turbos but many others as well,, my numbers are not mythical, not by any stretch.


please re read,,
There is NO 10 psi = 10 hp. 50 % power is gained at 8 psi which is half an atmosphere of additional pressure.

how much per pound of boost is that ?? depends on what the base power was to start with, bore , stroke and porttime fiqures are not part of this factor.

portime does have a large factor ON ITS OWN,, and can make it less or much more,, but the 50% factor just like the 100% factor 0f 15 psi is very accurate.
get some good dyno test, look at the fiqures and learn..

at 7 psi the 100 hp 648cc engine picked up to 147 hp..
at 14 psi it made exactly 200 hp.

the 800 NON ho rev engine is 140 hp on my dynomite, with the cpi kit as it was delivered,, it made 215 hp @ 10 psi, at 15 psi 242 hp, 22 psi 251 hp..too hott,!!!!
Like I wrote above,, correctly sized turbo,, the cpi unit is much to small..

NOW the same sled has a 2876 garrett,, at 15 psi the engine now makes 281 hp.. 330 hp at 22 psi.. no intercooler,, we will be testing again in 3 weeks with an air to water frozen boost ( shogun ) barrel type..bet we see another 25 or better hp at same boost..

2 stroke turbos are fun and very easy to predict .

Gus

fwiw......Josh Mosher will race this sled agin this year in power adder twins on ice. the tra is now gettin tossed for a micro 4 weight.

regardless of instrumentation used, knowing what the accumulated data means and how to use it is what makes a good tuner /operator.

just sharing the knowledge for the better of the turbo users ..

Gus, Question for ya..


So, is it all about pressure or are there other factors?

For example: Inlet temps.. If you have 10PSI boost on one engine with a 70 degree temp and another engine with 10PSI boost but with 200+ degree temps... Do they make the same power? The cylinder pressure willbe the same or very close to the same?

Another: What does a turbo make at 1 psi, 2 psi, and 3 psi on a 2 stroke engine? It is my understanding that there is a compressor map that the turbo follows and when you are outside of the "Sweet spot" the turbo does not flow the air as efficiently.. So, I would suspect that at the low,low boost pressures thatthe unit is not very efficient. Is this correct?
So, do you need to get to a certain boost pressure to really be able to start makinf some decent gains? So, if 7-8 PSI is 50% more increase would 3-4 PSI be 25%?? or do you really need to get in to the map's effective area to start realizing the power gains?

Looking forward to the answers.

Thanks

Kelsey

 

[gus bohne]

temp directly affect density so no, the power output is less when superheated, like the results from the small mitsu on the rev at evan moderate boost.

mapping of turbos is 4 stroke oriented, the losses in pumping efficiency on a 2 stroke are not factors we can plug in.

with higher volume compressors and intake plumbing come lower charge temps and higher power numbers at moderate to high boost numbers.

when choosing a 2 stroke turbo size,,, the old smaller is more efficient for low boost train of thought will cost you in durability..( read as higher intake temps due to higher turbo temps.)

4 strokes are not exposing the psiton skirts and rings to direct flame, 2's are every time the exhaust does the return wave thing...

when trail riding is your goal, less backpressure at low boost will be more beneficial to the overall tune up than small compressors.
so larger exhaust a/r is a good thing to a point.

what would you expect my charge temps were with the little mitsu on the rev vs the 2876 garrett ? mitsu was 189 degrees at 4.5 seconds into the pull

Garrett was 94 degrees at same 4.5 seconds in.
Mind you this is high boost for most ( 20 plus psi ).


my backpressure was the same,, 7 psi over boost.


Gus


of course we can go off the reservation and use a tiny turbo or a 4094 and go off the mark to that side too..

enough of this on this thread folks, we can start a new one in perf mod section.??

these guys at OVS are doing great work, Tonysnoo has nothing but good to say bout them and thats good enuf for me.

 

[Radski30]

Hey, If Travis at OVS says 288HP @ 12 PSI Everyone should believe him and purchase all their kits from OVS!!! Double HP @ 14 PSI = 11 HP/per LBS of boost. (OVS is making 10.6/PPOB) So @ 25 PSI That M8 should make 426. Its amazing what info a dyno can get you. All I can say is Travis you ROCK!!! and I can't wait to see this thing in action.

BTW, my TM7 on the local dyno here @ 14 PSI only topped a whopping 225 Crank HP...5500 FT ELEVATION will post some sheets on here as soon as I can get my hands on them. So to get that kind of power out of a M8 is INSANE!!! It must either be the propane or Travis's Magical Touch.


EVERYONE, YOU SHOULD PURCHASE THIS KIT...IT HAS DYNO PROOF THAT IT CAN PUT OUT HUGE POWER!!! ALL I CAN SAY: 288 @ 12 PSI....WOW IT IS TRULY AWE INSPIRING.

WAY TO GO OVS!!!

 

[TheBreeze]

Dang radski. Why do you have such an issue with OVS? You sure like making d-head posts on all of OVS's posts. Why do you have such a grudge against them?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

My bad, thought it was some bashing and jumped to a wrong understanding. Sorry Gus, and thanks for the great info. Now I get what you where saying as far as baro pressure etc... Keep it up OVS, just waiting to hear what the pipe brings.

 

[franklin]

Because, he's so full of $hit, his breath stinks. There kits are good, but nothing above anybody elses. Just a word of caution, don't do anything for these guys, unless paid up front.

 

[TheBreeze]

So who else offers a propane kit? Who else has posted dyno numbers? You guys ***** and moan wanting dyno numbers and they pose them and what do you know... more *****ing and moaning.

 

[Sparx]

Man, so many people getting their panties in a wad over this kit. I like that! Haha....

You'd swear your loosing sales on a turbo kit you distribute or something just cause of this post? Honestly, I would have still bought this kit if it only put out 225hp. I bought the kit because of the propane. I'm sure it may have weakness' like every other kit, but it has the features I want and I'm willing to give it a try. Why can't you wait to see it in person before dissing it like it's such a threat? As mentioned, each kit has something for everyone. It's not like this is the best kit for everyone out there just cause it might make 288hp.... Always other factors come into equation, not just power... My dyno is in the seat of my pants and how I like it, wish I could tell you sooner, but even up north we don't got snow yet. So hang in there guys, we should all find out soon enough!