Not Average Joe Boost review

[Gideup]

So hard to refrain from really sqeezing it braking in! Polaris just keeps on making smile makers? Pro’s run planted out of box. Just right adjustments and it’s a boondocking machine! Should be ready for WA steep and deep pretty soon. Compared to my ‘19 850 way more torque, way more agile on the hill, when I should have been stuck pulled through! Love the mapping on the gauge, don’t have that where the hell are we feeling??

 

[PaulAnd]

I wish I had one full time to play with.
First thing I would do is install a boost gauge to check boost pressure. It sure doesn’t act like a 8-9# sled at 9-10,000’.

No boost gauge hidden in the display somewhere?


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[tahoe151]

No boost gauge hidden in the display somewhere?


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Yeah there is a boost gauge in the gauges it’s just a bunch is lines I think they got it from a 1986 dodge Daytona

 

[TRS]

Had to modify an old puller for the P22

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I wish I had one full time to play with.
First thing I would do is install a boost gauge to check boost pressure. It sure doesn’t act like a 8-9# sled at 9-10,000’.

You have one on the way?

 

[TRS]

I might get one.

 

[turboless terry]

What's the smf verdict or not enough time yet.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

What's the smf verdict or not enough time yet.

Need more time in real snow.

Sneaky fast vs the silber 800.

Hold it for a couple seconds then it’s panic brake time.

 

[cortez]

Yeah there is a boost gauge in the gauges it’s just a bunch is lines I think they got it from a 1986 dodge Daytona

This gauge should easily be able to show psi, just a matter of a software update.. I’m holding out hope that Polaris or a 3rd party code writer makes that option available in the near future


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[JeffBrines]

I wish I had one full time to play with.
First thing I would do is install a boost gauge to check boost pressure. It sure doesn’t act like a 8-9# sled at 9-10,000’.

Not sure how many people are aware but the boost sleds are running a different head compared to the NA 850s. This isn't a huge surprise to me, being there is no way to run 8-9psi (or whatever they claim) at 10K at the NA 850 cylinder head compression ratio on pump.

Few ideas in my head...

1) Build a flash around the NA head ( and require AV mix)
2) Advance timing down low (also may require higher octane)

I'm sure the stumble will be remediable through the flash alone.

 

[TRS]

Not sure how many people are aware but the boost sleds are running a different head compared to the NA 850s. This isn't a huge surprise to me, being there is no way to run 8-9psi (or whatever they claim) at 10K at the NA 850 cylinder head compression ratio on pump.

Few ideas in my head...

1) Build a flash around the NA head ( and require AV mix)
2) Advance timing down low (also may require higher octane)

I'm sure the stumble will be remediable through the flash alone.

I’m in agreement. I don’t know how they can run 8-9# on Premium even with the low comp head. Someone needs to verify the boost levels at elevation changes with a gauge. I could get from 6-11,000’ here.
I’m thinking the butterfly wastegate and actuator are witnessing creep at the intended higher elevation boost levels.
A return spring, maybe???
I haven’t looked into DW to see if there is a relearn program as there is with the EV actuator. I would think there would be.

 

[chevy_man]

I’m in agreement. I don’t know how they can run 8-9# on Premium even with the low comp head. Someone needs to verify the boost levels at elevation changes with a gauge. I could get from 6-11,000’ here.
I’m thinking the butterfly wastegate and actuator are witnessing creep at the intended higher elevation boost levels.
A return spring, maybe???
I haven’t looked into DW to see if there is a reset program as there is with the EV actuator. I would think there would be.

Proper tuning.

In the sled world we're used to tuners just telling us we need 100+ octane because it makes their lives easier. Detonation kills pistons, so they don't want to take a chance.


10lbs with a proper tune at elevation is just fine on 91, with 9-10:1 compression. Remember boost is only a restriction to airflow. Change any part of the system and that number will change. It's simply a reference. 10lbs at 10000' may be 180hp, but 3lbs at 2000' is also 180hp. Either way, your power output and fuel consumption should remain relatively constant while the boost pressure is varying to maintain enough oxygen for a proper burn.
It's the power level that is responsible for a majority of engine damage, along with improper tuning.


I'd bet you see more issues with idiots running leaded av gas than those that use 91. If you need more octane vp racing fuel is where you should be looking, but it's not nearly as cheap or available. Lead wrecks the O2 sensors and plugs.

One day hopefully they'll make the damn fuel system e85 compatible, so we can run dirt cheap 100+ octane fuel. This would require some sort of system integrated to flush the injectors for storage, so I can see why they haven't.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Proper tuning.

In the sled world we're used to tuners just telling us we need 100+ octane because it makes their lives easier. Detonation kills pistons, so they don't want to take a chance.


10lbs with a proper tune at elevation is just fine on 91, with 9-10:1 compression. Remember boost is only a restriction to airflow. Change any part of the system and that number will change. It's simply a reference. 10lbs at 10000' may be 180hp, but 3lbs at 2000' is also 180hp. Either way, your power output and fuel consumption should remain relatively constant while the boost pressure is varying to maintain enough oxygen for a proper burn.
It's the power level that is responsible for a majority of engine damage, along with improper tuning.


I'd bet you see more issues with idiots running leaded av gas than those that use 91. If you need more octane vp racing fuel is where you should be looking, but it's not nearly as cheap or available. Lead wrecks the O2 sensors and plugs.

One day hopefully they'll make the damn fuel system e85 compatible, so we can run dirt cheap 100+ octane fuel. This would require some sort of system integrated to flush the injectors for storage, so I can see why they haven't.

You have an O2 sensor on your sled?

And I don’t think preaching to TRS about what is or isn’t ok with 2 stroke turbo’s is warranted.

That guy’s forgot more than 95% will ever know on that subject.

 

[iluv2fly]

Proper tuning.

In the sled world we're used to tuners just telling us we need 100+ octane because it makes their lives easier. Detonation kills pistons, so they don't want to take a chance.


10lbs with a proper tune at elevation is just fine on 91, with 9-10:1 compression. Remember boost is only a restriction to airflow. Change any part of the system and that number will change. It's simply a reference. 10lbs at 10000' may be 180hp, but 3lbs at 2000' is also 180hp. Either way, your power output and fuel consumption should remain relatively constant while the boost pressure is varying to maintain enough oxygen for a proper burn.
It's the power level that is responsible for a majority of engine damage, along with improper tuning. I would call them idiots either for running a better fuel like avgas, those are ones who don't want to risk detonation.


I'd bet you see more issues with idiots running leaded av gas than those that use 91. If you need more octane vp racing fuel is where you should be looking, but it's not nearly as cheap or available. Lead wrecks the O2 sensors and plugs.

One day hopefully they'll make the damn fuel system e85 compatible, so we can run dirt cheap 100+ octane fuel. This would require some sort of system integrated to flush the injectors for storage, so I can see why they haven't.

100LL av gas has a lot less lead than race fuel unless you pick up some unleaded race fuel somewhere. By the way avgas runs great in turbo sleds I have ran it for years in mine. My sled is a 17 axys with a silber turbo but even if I was to order a boost I would still run 2-3 gallons because it's cheap insurance. I also have had a polaris axys with mtnk turbo and even though it was setup to run on 91 pump shawn told me to always put a little 100LL for insurance.

 

[JeffBrines]

Proper tuning.

In the sled world we're used to tuners just telling us we need 100+ octane because it makes their lives easier. Detonation kills pistons, so they don't want to take a chance.


10lbs with a proper tune at elevation is just fine on 91, with 9-10:1 compression. Remember boost is only a restriction to airflow. Change any part of the system and that number will change. It's simply a reference. 10lbs at 10000' may be 180hp, but 3lbs at 2000' is also 180hp. Either way, your power output and fuel consumption should remain relatively constant while the boost pressure is varying to maintain enough oxygen for a proper burn.
It's the power level that is responsible for a majority of engine damage, along with improper tuning.


I'd bet you see more issues with idiots running leaded av gas than those that use 91. If you need more octane vp racing fuel is where you should be looking, but it's not nearly as cheap or available. Lead wrecks the O2 sensors and plugs.

One day hopefully they'll make the damn fuel system e85 compatible, so we can run dirt cheap 100+ octane fuel. This would require some sort of system integrated to flush the injectors for storage, so I can see why they haven't.

If you are right, why is ski-doo not pushing more boost in their system? They are a pretty big company with all the incentive in the world to do so. To add, why didn't "better tuners" come along in the aftermarket world and figure out how to run 10psi at 10K on pump? The reason is, in fact, because you are bumping up against what is physically possible.

A few things you are forgetting in your hypothesis.

1) Things are not as linear as you are making it out to be. 10psi at 10K may only be 180hp (or whatever) but the idea that "1 psi = x horsepower" is far from reality when there are other variables (such as heat) that weigh into the equation. As you know, hot charge temps bode poorly for air/fuel stability. Hotter charge temps also results in lower power output.
2) Tuning a 2 stroke motor is not the same as tuning a 4 stroke motor.
3) AV gas is 100% fine to run in a sled. Proof is in the pudding here. SO many run it without issue arguing the other side of this is like arguing the sky isn't in fact blue. As others have noted, there are no O2 sensors or catalytic converters on a sled. As far as it "wrecking plugs". Huh? I guess airplanes are falling out of the sky because of all the wrecked plugs 100LL is resulting in.

 

[Gideup]

Yeah there is a boost gauge in the gauges it’s just a bunch is lines I think they got it from a 1986 dodge Daytona

My SeaDoo RXP 300 has just lines for show of power and my boost pretty much the same. But when I’m in the upper range of those little lines, I’m pretty sure I’ll never will be looking at my gauge?

 

[Chadly]

100LL av gas has a lot less lead than race fuel unless you pick up some unleaded race fuel somewhere. By the way avgas runs great in turbo sleds I have ran it for years in mine. My sled is a 17 axys with a silber turbo but even if I was to order a boost I would still run 2-3 gallons because it's cheap insurance. I also have had a polaris axys with mtnk turbo and even though it was setup to run on 91 pump shawn told me to always put a little 100LL for insurance.

I am so tired of hearing people say "for cheap insurance". It's a factory turbo. You don't need cheap insurance. Polaris is going to tell you what works and mixing fuel isn't one of them. And besides you know who insurance is for? It's for poor people. People who can't afford to invest in themselves. There is a reason insurance companies are some of the richest in the world. Now go wear your double mask outside in line somewhere for cheap insurance sleeping comfortably at night because you purchased a 4 year extended warranty on your sled ? As many of the negatives I have pointed out, power and reliability hasn't been one. My motor has ripped with no hiccups and makes tons of power.

 

[goridedoo]

I am so tired of hearing people say "for cheap insurance". It's a factory turbo. You don't need cheap insurance. Polaris is going to tell you what works and mixing fuel isn't one of them. And besides you know who insurance is for? It's for poor people. People who can't afford to invest in themselves. There is a reason insurance companies are some of the richest in the world. Now go wear your double mask outside in line somewhere for cheap insurance sleeping comfortably at night because you purchased a 4 year extended warranty on your sled ? As many of the negatives I have pointed out, power and reliability hasn't been one. My motor has ripped with no hiccups and makes tons of power.

Ya. I don’t really get why everyone is recommending to run race gas. Its pump gas turbo. Run pump gas. It’s fine.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

I have a question? How much do these cost?

 

[goridedoo]

I have a question? How much do these cost?

They are like 21-22k.