No Child Left Behind............

[POLZIN]

The inablity to educte our kids will be our downfall as a nation! My son I s among the britest in his class and is so frustrated that he hates school alredy. He's in kindergarten!

My solutions


1)Kill all the lawyers and give the money to the teachers
2) execute the nearly 1 million violent criminals serving life or more
( this would save billions annually ) and give that money to education
3) stop liberal homos from introducing policy that restricts the use of corpral punishment in scools ( give our teachers the power to fight for the kids that could learn)

4) expect more from our kids and teachers and too bad if they get there feelings hurt! life is a beatch learn to deal with it and overcome!

The key too start addressing the problem is funding schools in such a way that will matter not on touchy feely B.S. I my sons school they only get P.E. one day per week! I had P.E. everyday no wonder we have the fatest, dumbest kids in the world.
Some may say that this not the way but from my own experience without P.E. and music ,art ,Ect. I would not have been able to tolerate school either . Phys.ed and math seem to be unrelated but I feel that these components are vital to encouraging well rounded health young minds and a heathy education system That no only serves the kids but may possilbly inspire them!

We need to start paying teachers Much Much better.So as to attract the best minds not just people that can pass the competency exams and backround checks . educating our kids is the single most important thing we can do without that we have no hope of solving the problems of today and the future.

 

[niner49]

Programs never fail

No Child left behind does have serious flaws but what Government enacted program doesn't??? please answer? the intent of NCLB was accountability of funding sent to educate kids that was not being spent in the classroom on admin!

Actually, lets take this a step further can ANYONE please name one or government programs that has actually failed? I mean actually died! funding cut!?

If a government program is not working its must be under funded and more money is just thrown at it! could the private(non Tax payer funded Ever survive like that?) examples has welfare been successful at raisng the poverty level? or medicare? how about unemployment has that helped people get jobs, and lower the unemployement rate.....the list goes on and on.


What really tixs me off is the fact that we have now become a society of Not rewarding success and drive but a society of creating equality "take" from the successful folks and give to the unsuccesful ones because we all know that is what really motivates people!

 

[Summertime Blues]

My mother and wife are both teachers. No child left behind is a bunch of BS.

 

[Dogmeat]

"You got a B! How dare you!!"

The most successful people I know in life right now were brought up that way. They would literally get grounded if they didn't pull straight A's.

Most of them wound up going on to get master's degrees and are a hell of a lot more successful right now, in their financial doings as well as family lives, than damn near anyone else I know.

I intend on setting the bar quite high in that respect for my kids when I have them. There is no reason at all they can't acheive straight A's and be the best, and they're gonna be brought up with that kind of confidence ...

 

[cpa]

The real problem isn't the government program or the schools. The real problem are the parents who think that their precious child is entitled to everything. They think that it is the teachers fault that their little princess is failing. Parents need to stop trying to solve all the kids problems and try raising their kids. It isn't the schools fault that you didn't learn study skills. There are more college/AP courses offered now at high schools then ever. If you weren't challenged you didn't want to be.

There are plenty of problems at schools, I know my wife is a teacher. The biggest problem are the parents though. It is so frustrating to constantly having parents call her wondering what she did wrong because there kid didn't pass. Take some responsibilty for your kids. My 4 year old can read simple books do simple addition and subtraction. My 2 year old recognizes letters and knows some letters sounds. Why because we read with them every day. I'm definatly not the best parent in the world but I do know that if you work hard enough you can accomplish anything. I also do not expect someone else to make my kids want to learn.

My wife works for a smaller school district in Utah. She is the junior class advisor this year, so she is in charge of Junior Prom which is tomorrow. Everynight for the last 2 months our phone rings off the hook with parents calling wondering why their junior daughter hasn't been asked to prom yet and why the school isn't making guys ask them. I'm not exagerating one bit. Finally two weeks ago they made a list of junior girls that hadn't been asked and found senior boys that were willing to take them. The boys parents didn't want to have to pay for an expensive prom date though so the school is giving them the dance tickets and a dinner. Everyones happy now right?? Not at all. Well when parents of senior girls found out that senior boys were going they didn't think it was fair that their girls didn't get to go. Our phone rings off the hook again till all hours of the night with unhappy parents. After a meeting with the Principle they decide to let everyone go if they want. You would think that everyone would be happy right?? Well of course not. A big group of senior girls couldn't get dates becasue the senior guys were taking junior girls. They decided to just go stag. Everone was happy until the junior girls parents found out about senior girls going without dates. Why you ask?? They are afraid that the senior guys that are with their junior girls will see all the senior girls there and talk to them!!!! When was the law written that you can only talk to your date at a dance. Parents are so worried about kids not getting their feelings hurt. Guess what it is a tough world deal with it. And people wonder why there is a teacher shortage in Utah.

Sorry for the long rant. There are plenty of problems the government is to be blamed for in education, but look in the mirror before blaming an underpaid teacher for all of your childs misfourtune.

 

[decarls]

sounds to me like there's a lot of ugly girls in that school.

 

[Scott]

This seems to be going toward a "low expectation teacher vs high expectation parent".

Let me share some things from my perspective.

I hear people say that students are not pushed by the teachers to work hard. Teachers have low expectations.
Parents are funny. They tell me that they don't know when the due dates are, upcoming tests, missing work, current grades etc. Ya gotta support your children, but ya also have to take what they say with a grain of sand.

LOL

My gradebook is posted online. 68 out of 69 of my parents have internet at home. That other one has internet in his squad car. A lot of them tell me they don't know how their childern are doing. "What is his grade right now?"

My students have an agenda that I REQUIRE parents to sign every night to indicate they have seen due dates, what we did that day and what the assignments are. Guess what.....most parents sign it every day. And you should see the sheepish look on their face when we dig out the agenda and right there at the bottom of each page is her signature.
I have a big board in my room that has every single HW assisgnment on it from the past 6 weeks.

Wish I had 1/2 penny every time a kid said..."I didn't know we had a HW assignment".

I wish I had 1/2 a penny everytime someone said...."this is too much work...my child isn't capable of this...he's only 12...how can he get this done at home tonight when he has HW from 4 other classes?...etc.
My response..."Well here is what he got done during the 45 mins I gave him to work (holds up empty piece of paper). BTW, here is the cell phone I confiscated. Ask him how many ceiling tiles are in my room."

I wish I had another dime every time I catch a kid doing someone elses work or copying.

My favorite is at PT conferences when the parent says..."I just don't understand why he has so many missing assignments. I didn't know (LOL, refer back to online grade book and signed agendas). He spends 3 hours a night in his room doing HW which is way too much. I say to them..is he actually DOING any homework in there. Mom's response..."Well, he SAYS he does!"

LMFAO

You only get out of it what you put into it.

edit: but was a little busy for a couple hours I was typing the same time CPA was. LOL....thank you CPA. Good post.
LOL, glad I only went to the prom once. LOL HAHAHA. What an awful story.

 

[niner49]

That rules

CPA that Paragraph is CLASSIC! LMAO

perfect example of politics in school these days!

Mind if I copy it and send it to My wife and a few of her teacher friends! My buddies wife is a learning director at a High school, she pushes kids so hard and tells us stories like this all of the time she needs to see it in writing !

 

[Summertime Blues]

I never understood parents blaming teachers because a kid failed. Most of the time it is not bad teaching it is bad parenting.

 

[Dogmeat]

I never understood parents blaming teachers because a kid failed. Most of the time it is not bad teaching it is bad parenting.

For the large part of this I agree, however there are some pretty ****ty teachers out there ...

I'll be the first to admit I should have put forth more effort in school, but at the same time I had some royally horrible teachers ...

 

[cpa]

There are a few bad teachers. But for the most part you couldn't find a more dedicated bunch of employees. The only reason someone would teach is because they love the kids. My wife is in tears constantly when she can see the potential that kids have that they aren't living up to. She would do what ever she could to help any of them.

Please share my prom story with everyone. I am not exagerating anything in the story either. It absolutly blows my mind. We have phone calls at 10:30 pm nightly for 2 months. With 3 kids under 5 that really ticks me off.

The school district superintendent is also on her case now because prom isn't going to break even. Well when you give away half the tickets what do you expect!! I told my wife to just write him a check for the differance next time he said anything. We have already put about $200 into decorations what is another $1200.00 It just makes my blood boil. I never went to a single Prom when I was in school. I really was wise beyond my years back then

Not to mention I have to miss a good days ride tomorrow.

 

[brushwolf]

How well informed are you guys of it's design and workings?

NCLB was designed in Houston Texas as a local education program. It went national when Bush was elected.

It is NOT to remediate "least gifted students".

As a whole the school has to show improvement for each criteria every year. AYP (Annual Yearly Progress)
It's about how ALL levels of students do as a whole. It's not specifically designed to cater to lower level students do. How each school approaches thier AYP is up to them, as long as they meet AYP.

In theory, it's a good idea.
In theory.

It's NOT practical or reasonable for all demographics and population samples. Rural states and rural school districts, while students often set the high end of the bell curve for national testing scores, are not able to meet AYP. WHY? Because the structure of the program discounts the type of progress they make. Blue collar/vo tech curriculms are more common and not as many college prep curriculums to get them past AYP.

I feel it's bleeding-heart/idealistic name for a defunct cookie cutter program that is unequitable for rural districts to meet their criteria. Not categorically, but as a whole, it's much easier for urban districts to meet it.

Your thoughts?

The intentions of spending more resources on the least gifted students may be well & good,
however, our future does not rest in the hands of the least gifted students.

While we are producing "smarter morons", it is at the expense of our future leaders.
Our brightest students will have to compete on a global market with the best educated people from all corners of the Earth.
These students are starving to learn more, but are being held back by the weaker links in the chain.
Our high school classrooms are teaching at a speed dictated by the slowest learners. Some would like to be smarter, but simply do not have the tools, while others just do not care. They are not putting forth an earnest effort, but are governing the rate at which others around them can learn.
Our brightests lights are not being given the opportunity to shine to their potential.

"No child left behind" is a huge failure, but no one comes out against it for fear of being labeled as against education.[/QUOTE]

Most rural education associations and teacher's unions have had a lot to say against NCLB.


Important.

What else would you expect from what was basically a good idea to start with before it was re- gurgitated by the likes of liberal teddy kennedy?

 

[Summertime Blues]

For the large part of this I agree, however there are some pretty ****ty teachers out there ...

I'll be the first to admit I should have put forth more effort in school, but at the same time I had some royally horrible teachers ...

There are a$$holes in all fields of work. There are way more bad parents then there are bad teachers.

I would not put up with the crap my wife has to. For one I would beat the $hit outta some kid and two I would beat the $hit outta some kid.

 

[Mafesto]

Mafesto, glad you were in school before the no tard left behind era. You obviously got a first class education!

Thanks for the kind words Bruce.

I'm glad I went to school when I did.
During my high school days I was....
Grabbed by a teacher & thrown up against the lockers,
Hit on the head by a teacher whith his class ring (ouch!)
Slapped in the head by my Pastor,
we made our Ag teacher cry & call us a "bunch of phookers"

Good times

 

[switchback]

I'm with you there 'Festo. I remember screwing around in 5th grade and after several warnings 'teach took me to the hallway and after head meet locker I understood him perfectly The principal & I had a few man to man discussions as well. Better person for it too. I think R-E-S-P-E-C-T was something we learned and that word has been forgotten in the system now. Some of these pants hanging punks need their azzes handed to 'em in the course of education. Shortly afterwards their parents need it as well. It all starts at home. Screwed up in 7th grade and the new rifle dad got me went right back where it came from.

 

[Ollie]

I don't think respect has been forgotten.
It has been legally removed.
A teacher has to stand and take it. They can't smack the little chits.
They can't do anything to the kids no matter how disruptive they are. We need to get back to the time when if you screwed up, the teacher had the right to smack ya. If you mouthed off, you got smacked.

This whole, mamby pamby touchy feely, everyone is good no matter what is bull.

The whole "no child left behind" might have been born in good intentions, but what has happened is the schools hold the good kids back while they try to get the bad/slow kids up to speed. My school did that also, but they slow kids had a special class. It was called special ed.. They stopped that because they said it made the kids feel inferior. What a load of BS. THEY WERE INFERIOR.

 

[xrated]

Polz,

"( this would save billions annually ) and give that money to education", I disagree, the schools just need to be held more accountable by the citizens for what the money is used on, just like government. Granted teachers are underpaid...but think about how many aides schools have? they don't have a degree for educating kids.

"my own experience without P.E. and music ,art ,Ect. I would not have been able to tolerate school either " I agree but not on the same plane I think. yes you need PE but to me, Art, Music, etc are keys for education. Learning higher skills, etc lead to smarter kids yeah the Arts are full of nerds(I was full out band) but in my expeirence it seems kids who excelled in music, etc are the ones who have been the most succesfull and also pushed themselves in school. In fact my school had it so backwards I was forced my senior year to choose between Band hour and Chemistry. I picked Chem since I knew it woudl help in the future. Surprisinly both teachers were upset, not at me for not picking band, but for the fact that a student who wanted to excell and learn was forced to pick between subjects. If I had wanted to take wood working, I would have been able to stay in the band(had played since 5th grade, first chair since 9th).

Also, on teacher pay, yeah it sucks. But I don't feel that is the reason nobody is excited to teach. What I saw was teachers who were burnt out on kids, administration, and parents who were to damn set on what sports were performing like. I think after 3 or 4 years of seeing that attitude, no matter the pay, anyone would get frustrated and upset. Again in my expierence a teacher would be boring in general history class, but take one of their elective classes and show an interest and you could see the passion for teaching each hour.(literally I had these 2 classes back to back).

CPA, I couldn't agree more. As much blame as we place on schools and teachers, the ultimate lays with PARENTS. Teachers love when parents show an interest in kids. I plan on being so involved in my kids schooling that the teachers may get annoyed with me.

Decarls, man that sounds like some McGregor or Aitkin crap for prom. Me I went once, the next year I realized I had better odds spending my money at the DU banquet!

 

[xrated]

Had to post again.

CPA, this is perfect...There are a few bad teachers. But for the most part you couldn't find a more dedicated bunch of employees. The only reason someone would teach is because they love the kids. My wife is in tears constantly when she can see the potential that kids have that they aren't living up to. She would do what ever she could to help any of them.

I had a teacher just like this. Many saw him as lazy(maybe he was) and as a bad teacher. He gave me the second best advice I have ever gotten. At teh time we were doing Senior papers on careers. I was doing construction at the time and wrote 2 papers on it(figured it was a good gig and I liked it, was ready to stick with it) the other paper was on X-ray Techs because I needed to write one on health care.

I told him my dream job was being a General Contractor. He pulled me aside one day and told me I was stupid. That he had tuaght me for 6 years in science, chem, etc and thought it was a damn waste of my brains and talent and his time if I went into construction. And ya know what, he was right. Nothign against the trades, but I know I wouldn't be where I am right now with my life if he wouldn't have said that.

Hey switch, I'm still a pants hanging punk!!!

As for this talk of smacking, come on guys...do you really think we need it. I never had th threat of it, but I was so worried about losing respect from the teachers who took interest in me that I was a pretty well behaved kid. Teachign kids discipline needs to happen at home, it shouldn't be the teachers job.

 

[Ollie]

You guys want to see a major change in the schools??

Fire the school boards. Fire every single one of them.
Give the money you save (trust me it will be millions) to the schools.
Give each school an accountant.
Then you put a group together that consists of the following.

the principal, vice principal, a couple teachers (elected by the other teachers)and a half dozen parents (elected by the other parents).
No one is paid, you do it because you want to.

Then, cut sports. Slash the chit out of it. There is no need to spend 40%+ of a schools budget on sports. That is what PE is for. I don't care if you know how to play hockey or baseball or football or golf. I do care if you know how to do math, science or know history.

 

[Dogmeat]

Then, cut sports. Slash the chit out of it. There is no need to spend 40%+ of a schools budget on sports. That is what PE is for. I don't care if you know how to play hockey or baseball or football or golf. I do care if you know how to do math, science or know history.

I really disagree with that ... sports are great for kids.

You guys talking about having all kinds of weird sports for kids ... personally I think that's a very good thing. Not everyone can make the football or basketball teams, and having activities that are school-sponsored for them to participate in is definatley very beneficial ... I played sports all through highschool, and I don't know anyone who didn't that doesn't think they benefitted from it.

The problem with sports is, when the emphasis is on sports and not on academics, which again I think comes from the parents ... The schools need to enforce academics over sports - and many schools dont - but that's why sports are considered "extra-cirricular" ... but cutting sports and other activities such as that is a bad idea .... I mean with that logic, we'd cut theatre, music, all of it ... I think sports, as well as other acitivities such as those that have to do with arts and such are really beneficial to kids ...

I think it's beneficial not only to kids in low-income families, but kids who are in high-income familes whose parents both work, etc ...

I dunno, I just really think sports and other such activites can be really important to kids development ...

edit: but, I guess re-reading what you wrote I guess we're both saying the same thing, the problem is the emphasis not being on academics ...