Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

  • Don't miss out on all the fun! Register on our forums to post and have added features! Membership levels include a FREE membership tier.

NEW FS start dates to riding????

C

COgirl411

Free Member
Hey folks

I've been hearing news spread like wildfire today... about people getting tickets this past weekend for riding before the "START DATE"... something new the Forest Services are pushing out... anyone have ANY official news from the Colorado Forest Service?


Here's what I've found regarding in the Snowies/Medicine Bow National Forests/WYO:

Between May 30 and Nov. 30, regardless of snow depth, all types of OSVs may not be
used off of designated routes shown on the local MVUM. This means no off road or
cross country travel between those dates in the same way that wheeled ATVs are
restricted.

In addition to establishing the seasonal dates, the order also sets a minimum snow
depth of 12 inches before OSVs are allowed off of designated routes as shown on the
local MVUM.

Boiled down, it sounds like no riding there until Nov 30... wha?????

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5439537.pdf
 
skibreeze said:
I just found out about this today on FB. Looks like the White River National Forest. Fawking BS.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/whiteriver/home/?cid=stelprdb5328674
Click to expand...

No. Not really if you stop to think about it. They do the same for dirtbikers. There are alot of areas that can't be ridden until May 20th. As sledders we should respect some things. Animals are migrating lower now. A group of sledders can disrupt that. As for bikes, in the spring we can't ride areas until after the elk and deer have given birth to the babies and started migrating higher.

I have always thought that the legal riding season doesn't end until hunting season does and that isn't over until the end of November.

You have to respect other outdoor enthusiasts too. You don't like it if a twig fairy messes with you. As a hunter, sledder, dirtbiker I can see it from all sides. A sled will spook elk, deer and moose away from hunters. I'd be pissed if I had an animal in my sights and here comes a sledder in 1.5 feet of snow. I'm an archer and this last season I had a nice elk get run from me by a kid on a dirt bike. I was half tempted to whack the little bastard with a rubber blunt. And I knew that trail was closed once hunting began but he rode it anyways. You wanna keep sledding? Stop and think for a second. This time of year, there are a lot of people in the woods and 1.5 feet of snow isn't going to stop an elk. We as sledders aren't the only ones that like the snow. Hunters love it. It's basically common sense. Be patient. The snow ain't that great anyways.
 
Last edited:
I can understand the animal part, you lost me at hunting though. If you don't want to be disturbed by motorized vehicles, there's millions of acres of wilderness for you. Never claimed the snow was great, but to me snow on the ground makes a lot more sense than snow on the ground AND a date.
 
new or newly enforced?

all good points here for sure... jas and i aren't fans of early season riding but we were considering going out earlier if the snow coverage was there... what i'm hearing is that these are 'new' rules... but maybe these rules are just 'newly enforced' rules.... just trying to sort through all these technicalities... people are reporting $275 tickets
 
But here's the kicker. You could still ride your dirt bike or truck on the roads. Just not the snowmobile.
 
Cheer up, SkiBreeze. You can use VP from November 15, instead of November 30 snow allowing, see below.

It looks like to me the Medicine Bow Special Forest Order is really clear-- you can ride your sled on the road. Since its the Medicine Bow/Routt NF, I wonder if the order extends to Rabbit Ears. Anyway, here's Medicine Bow's statements for On Snow Vehicles:

• Between May 30 and Nov. 30, regardless of snow depth, all types of OSVs may not be used off of designated routes shown on the local MVUM. This means no off road or cross country travel between those dates in the same way that wheeled ATVs are restricted.
• In addition to establishing the seasonal dates, the order also sets a minimum snow depth of 12 inches before OSVs are allowed off of designated routes as shown on the local MVUM.
It is important to note that OSVs are still allowed to travel on open roads from May 30 – Nov. 30, but may not go off road or cross country until both snow depths and dates are in place.

There is a bit of good in this-- it prohibits wheeled vehicles on groomed snowmobile traiks in the snow season. I am too "Code of the West," and helped people that did not deserve it when they got the SUV or truck stuck far from the trail head.

Then, there is the White River National Forest. The White River "policy" of a winter MVUM is typical for WRNF-- very restrictive, not nearly as clear, and the map is printed with the fewest possible land marks and in shades of gray that might not be discerned with the naked eye or some printers. I don't know of another Forest's MVUMs that are as hard to read as WRNF. It claims to be the busiest NF in the nation (due to ski area traffic); it ought to be able to do better. On the MVUM and the Winter use page, there is no statement that you can't ride motorized routes when snow allows, but I wouldn't trust such limited sources. Its managment has never expressed any interest in supporting motorized use beyond state/county roads and ski areas.
 
I know from working for the FS in Alaska this rule is strictly enforced up there. It may be more of a national effort to enforce? We built a bridge 40 miles from Anchorage, 10 miles from a road and used sleds to get to the site. 2 years ago there was substantial snowfall and we asked the FS (the client) for a one time access in mid Nov and they completely shut us down. I thought it was wired at the time but the locals said it was standard operating procedure.
 
skibreeze said:
I just found out about this today on FB. Looks like the White River National Forest. Fawking BS.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/whiteriver/home/?cid=stelprdb5328674
Click to expand...

skibreeze said:
I can understand the animal part, you lost me at hunting though. If you don't want to be disturbed by motorized vehicles, there's millions of acres of wilderness for you. Never claimed the snow was great, but to me snow on the ground makes a lot more sense than snow on the ground AND a date.
Click to expand...

Dave. Rabbit Ears is public. I mean we b*tch and moan that the skiers don't have the right to keep the West side to themselves. Right?? So why are you saying that if a hunter doesn't want to be bothered he should go hunt wilderness? Doesn't seem fair. I am a hunter and an avid sledder. Just because we got some early snow doesn't give sledders the right to bomb around and spook the wildlife. I'm not wanting to fight but there seems to be a bit of a double standard here among some. There is a time and a place for every sport, whether it be dirtbiking, sledding or hunting.

If hunters held onto the theory that is being presented by some sledders in this thread, why the hell do we need a hunting season? Why don't we just carry our bows and rifles and shoot an animal when we see it? And there is more than a foot of snow up there so sledders aren't required to stay on the road. And you can only ride a bike on those roads if it is plated. Most the single track in the area is closed now due to hunting. It's only fair.

These dates aren't created to oust sledders or bikers from riding forever. They are created to make things fair(ish) for all enthusiasts. Hunters already face plenty of adversity due to the fact that Colorado sells tags like they are going out of style and overcrowding the woods, now they have to deal with some sledder who cannot contain himself and feels that he MUST go ride that 15" of snow??

I hate to say it but the world doesn't rotate around us as sledders. We should quit being so damn selfish. Leave that sh*t to the twig fairies. It used to be those who rode on Thanksgiving got the first tracks and that was enough. Now we get a little snow and peeps are mad they got fined because they didn't read the fine print? Let the hunters hunt. Then go ride on November 23rd. I know it's odd coming from me but a little patience and respect will start helping us in the long run. We already have enemies on the skier front, why must we piss off the hunters and add to the ever growing front that opposes sledding in the backcountry?
 
03RMK800 said:
Cheer up, SkiBreeze. You can use VP from November 15, instead of November 30 snow allowing, see below.

It looks like to me the Medicine Bow Special Forest Order is really clear-- you can ride your sled on the road. Since its the Medicine Bow/Routt NF, I wonder if the order extends to Rabbit Ears. Anyway, here's Medicine Bow's statements for On Snow Vehicles:

• Between May 30 and Nov. 30, regardless of snow depth, all types of OSVs may not be used off of designated routes shown on the local MVUM. This means no off road or cross country travel between those dates in the same way that wheeled ATVs are restricted.
• In addition to establishing the seasonal dates, the order also sets a minimum snow depth of 12 inches before OSVs are allowed off of designated routes as shown on the local MVUM.
It is important to note that OSVs are still allowed to travel on open roads from May 30 – Nov. 30, but may not go off road or cross country until both snow depths and dates are in place.

There is a bit of good in this-- it prohibits wheeled vehicles on groomed snowmobile traiks in the snow season. I am too "Code of the West," and helped people that did not deserve it when they got the SUV or truck stuck far from the trail head.

Then, there is the White River National Forest. The White River "policy" of a winter MVUM is typical for WRNF-- very restrictive, not nearly as clear, and the map is printed with the fewest possible land marks and in shades of gray that might not be discerned with the naked eye or some printers. I don't know of another Forest's MVUMs that are as hard to read as WRNF. It claims to be the busiest NF in the nation (due to ski area traffic); it ought to be able to do better. On the MVUM and the Winter use page, there is no statement that you can't ride motorized routes when snow allows, but I wouldn't trust such limited sources. Its managment has never expressed any interest in supporting motorized use beyond state/county roads and ski areas.
Click to expand...


Yep nothing new here, there has always been a minimum snow depth for off road.
 
Oh boy... There was some filmed evidence of a good start to the season on Buff Pass. I'm surprised no one got ticketed up there. Looked like good riding from what I saw.

This is A Arm breaking time right now. Ripping through 24" of snow until you hit the 22" stump that rips off your front suspension, dents the bulkhead, and puts the bars through your chest ending your season before it even really got started. Take it easy out there in November, let the snow build up, let the critters migrate, and then it's our turn.
 
BallsDeep_5280 said:
Oh boy... There was some filmed evidence of a good start to the season on Buff Pass. I'm surprised no one got ticketed up there. Looked like good riding from what I saw.
Click to expand...

Said party is too special and exempt from all rules that are in place on RE/Buff. He's proven that time and time again.
 
03RMK800 said:
Cheer up, SkiBreeze. You can use VP from November 15, instead of November 30 snow allowing, see below.

It looks like to me the Medicine Bow Special Forest Order is really clear-- you can ride your sled on the road. Since its the Medicine Bow/Routt NF, I wonder if the order extends to Rabbit Ears. Anyway, here's Medicine Bow's statements for On Snow Vehicles:

• Between May 30 and Nov. 30, regardless of snow depth, all types of OSVs may not be used off of designated routes shown on the local MVUM. This means no off road or cross country travel between those dates in the same way that wheeled ATVs are restricted.
• In addition to establishing the seasonal dates, the order also sets a minimum snow depth of 12 inches before OSVs are allowed off of designated routes as shown on the local MVUM.
It is important to note that OSVs are still allowed to travel on open roads from May 30 – Nov. 30, but may not go off road or cross country until both snow depths and dates are in place.

There is a bit of good in this-- it prohibits wheeled vehicles on groomed snowmobile traiks in the snow season. I am too "Code of the West," and helped people that did not deserve it when they got the SUV or truck stuck far from the trail head.

Then, there is the White River National Forest. The White River "policy" of a winter MVUM is typical for WRNF-- very restrictive, not nearly as clear, and the map is printed with the fewest possible land marks and in shades of gray that might not be discerned with the naked eye or some printers. I don't know of another Forest's MVUMs that are as hard to read as WRNF. It claims to be the busiest NF in the nation (due to ski area traffic); it ought to be able to do better. On the MVUM and the Winter use page, there is no statement that you can't ride motorized routes when snow allows, but I wouldn't trust such limited sources. Its managment has never expressed any interest in supporting motorized use beyond state/county roads and ski areas.
Click to expand...

Nobody that has been ticketed has said anything about the rangers telling them that the roads were ok, just giving tickets. It would be nice to know if they are making that distinction.
 
PJ-Hunter said:
Dave. Rabbit Ears is public. I mean we b*tch and moan that the skiers don't have the right to keep the West side to themselves. Right?? So why are you saying that if a hunter doesn't want to be bothered he should go hunt wilderness? Doesn't seem fair. I am a hunter and an avid sledder. Just because we got some early snow doesn't give sledders the right to bomb around and spook the wildlife. I'm not wanting to fight but there seems to be a bit of a double standard here among some. There is a time and a place for every sport, whether it be dirtbiking, sledding or hunting.

If hunters held onto the theory that is being presented by some sledders in this thread, why the hell do we need a hunting season? Why don't we just carry our bows and rifles and shoot an animal when we see it? And there is more than a foot of snow up there so sledders aren't required to stay on the road. And you can only ride a bike on those roads if it is plated. Most the single track in the area is closed now due to hunting. It's only fair.

These dates aren't created to oust sledders or bikers from riding forever. They are created to make things fair(ish) for all enthusiasts. Hunters already face plenty of adversity due to the fact that Colorado sells tags like they are going out of style and overcrowding the woods, now they have to deal with some sledder who cannot contain himself and feels that he MUST go ride that 15" of snow??

I hate to say it but the world doesn't rotate around us as sledders. We should quit being so damn selfish. Leave that sh*t to the twig fairies. It used to be those who rode on Thanksgiving got the first tracks and that was enough. Now we get a little snow and peeps are mad they got fined because they didn't read the fine print? Let the hunters hunt. Then go ride on November 23rd. I know it's odd coming from me but a little patience and respect will start helping us in the long run. We already have enemies on the skier front, why must we piss off the hunters and add to the ever growing front that opposes sledding in the backcountry?
Click to expand...

Yup, it is public and should be open to everybody regardless of if it is an inconvenience to another user. If I want to go jeeping during hunting season, I have that right, even though I'd pass during that time . To me that's no different than sledding. So, yes if you don't want to share the forest with other users, go to the wilderness.
 
skibreeze said:
Yup, it is public and should be open to everybody regardless of if it is an inconvenience to another user. If I want to go jeeping during hunting season, I have that right, even though I'd pass during that time . To me that's no different than sledding. So, yes if you don't want to share the forest with other users, go to the wilderness.
Click to expand...

Not trying to start a fight man. They have dates for a reason. If you want to take that chance riding around when a bunch of guys (and no, not all of them are marksmen) slinging lead then that's your choice.

But like I said earlier the world doesn't rotate around a snowmobiler. Nor does it around anyone. But getting worked up because you can't go ride 15" of snow in October because the Forest Circus has a date set is just plain silly. The USFS regulates all mechanized vehicles, from bicycles to sleds. Yes the tree huggers get to use it all year. I don't care about that. It bothers me that they get an entire area to themselves but choose not to use it. These dates have been around for a while, it's just being brought to light now because we had early snow which normally doesn't happen. As a year round Forest user I have been dealing with it for years. Mostly on dirt because I choose not to ride snow until there is a fair amount of base. There are a lot of cool singletrack trails that I can't ride early spring because they split a migratory route. Those dates are for a reason, not put there to hate on sledders.
 
I just called the Grand Mesa Uncompahgre Gunnison forest service office and they are unaware of any such restrictions on the GMUG. The recreation officer is going to research it and call me back. I know people are road riding like crazy right now on the Grand Mesa. He said that currently the GMUG's travel management plan doesn't address snowmobile use.

I wholeheartedly agree with the posts above that we should respect other users and not be charging around all over the woods while hunting season is going on. Road riding is fine because that's exactly what the hunters do with their ATV's but leave the cross country travel for after hunting season.

AND as for the comment to go hunt in the wilderness, there are a lot of good roadless areas to hunt that are not wilderness that are accessible to snowmobiles. Just because you can get there on a snowmobile during hunting season doesn't mean you should. Have a little respect for others please.

Ok, just got a call back from the GMUG recreation officer and he confirmed that there are no such restrictions on the GMUG for either depth or dates.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Z
From Poo to Doo, first ride Revuu
2
Replies
33
Views
10K
Zad
Z
shelbwyo
Shonshone National Forest Travel Management Plan (Togwotee and Top of the World areas)
Replies
12
Views
2K
boondocker97
boondocker97
S
Lassen Forest (Northern California)OSV Plan...
Replies
1
Views
5K
SnowMoLoco
S
P
Help us Save our Riding Area!
Replies
9
Views
5K
Zrider
Zrider
V
WE NEED YOUR HELP!!!
2 3
Replies
42
Views
6K
duncan76
D
Premium Features
Join Now Free!



Back
Top