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knifedge
Well-known member
--It is good the belt does not actually break. It is good that you can still motor on down the trail back to the truck. Question is, without a spare belt, can you even get to the trail?
New Belt drive fail
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--It is good the belt does not actually break. It is good that you can still motor on down the trail back to the truck. Question is, without a spare belt, can you even get to the trail?
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Turbo11T
Well-known member
I would say it is going to be as simple as carry a spare belt. It likely is not going to be a huge issue, but belts will break. It will happen, just like chains, I think most of us have blown a chain. I would rather tear a belt apart. How much is the spare belt from POO. I imagine it is a gates, or goodyear kevlar belt. Pull the part number off it and buy a spare.
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khaddon2110
Well-known member
lmao.......and I remember hearing from the faithful that it would be impossible to break these belts....not to mention the fail of putting the brake rotor on the jackshaft........Now that we know the belts can and will break......how are you supposed to stop if you're pointed down a steep hill.......but hey, Blu had a valid point.....the motor is good BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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IdahoPowderHound
Well-known member
Wow so lame how people wont take advice and go with it. Who ever said these belts were "impossible to break"? any belt will break, chains breat all the time so do gears... The season hasnt even started yet and 90% of consumers havnt even ridden the '13, yet its already getting bashed on and its October...lol... it is nearly impossible to get your point across on this forum at times. I do understand buyers or potential buyers worries about a new product. The Direct Drive has been tested on snow for thousands of miles by polaris R&D the past two years and is proven to work. It isnt a 'one day mock-up' that they threw together and threw out to the public hoping it would work. R&D test these sleds in undisclosed locations all over the west in conditions we ride in all the time, dont think for a second they just run up and down the trail in minnesota testing this stuff. they make sure its all put through vigorouse testing in real world conditions. Im not sticking my neck out on this sight cause i like to or cause Polaris pays me to do so, i do so cause i know the product works and thats why i will stand behind it and represent it, end of story!
Wow so lame how people wont take advice and go with it. Who ever said these belts were "impossible to break"? any belt will break, chains breat all the time so do gears... The season hasnt even started yet and 90% of consumers havnt even ridden the '13, yet its already getting bashed on and its October...lol... it is nearly impossible to get your point across on this forum at times. I do understand buyers or potential buyers worries about a new product. The Direct Drive has been tested on snow for thousands of miles by polaris R&D the past two years and is proven to work. It isnt a 'one day mock-up' that they threw together and threw out to the public hoping it would work. R&D test these sleds in undisclosed locations all over the west in conditions we ride in all the time, dont think for a second they just run up and down the trail in minnesota testing this stuff. they make sure its all put through vigorouse testing in real world conditions. Im not sticking my neck out on this sight cause i like to or cause Polaris pays me to do so, i do so cause i know the product works and thats why i will stand behind it and represent it, end of story!
I agree with your post, but that doesn't mean they don't miss stuff or "hope for the best" until they figure out mid year what to do to fix something they see as a minor flaw. We all know stuff will happen regardless of the rigors R&D puts these sleds through. I had a flashback of the 08-10 D8 motors, though, when I read your post. I think this system will be as solid as ever, but we will probably see more incidents like this throughout the year, and maybe they'll revise it somehow for 2014 and beyond. I think with the money and time it takes to get new products on their sleds and into production, there's no way they can be perfect every time first year. It takes time to sort these things out. Unfortunately we are kind of their test dummys. That's the best R&D you can get. We ask for it!
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IdahoPowderHound
Well-known member
I completely agree with you. as i have been a diesel mechanic for years the only guarantee of any mechanical or electrical part is that in time it will fail, regaurdless of make, model, brand, ect. Im not here to say that if you buy a13 that the belt wont in someway somehow down the road tear, rip, or break. Just trying to get the point across that this isnt a week link that you can expect to have problems with from day one as that is how it was manipulated in the thread topic and many posts in the thread.
not too big of a deal because a stripped belt will get me back to the truck and it will be covered under warranty.
Why doesn't the original poster of the photo, tell us all exactly where and when that he went sledding this year, given that it hasn't snowed enough anywhere to be out sledding off of a road? Then we can have other Idaho sledders confirm that there was in fact snow at the place and time that the original poster claims. Case solved.
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
i think he got banned.
Just a quick point on belt vs chain drive...
At the end of the 2011 season I rode in the spring on my '11 Pro and blew up my chain and gears. We were jumping in heavy slushy snow. I thought my track was ratcheting but I lost some teeth on the top gear. I lost all the oil when we tore it down on the trail. That sled rode another 20 miles with no oil on three teeth! Finally it was too hot and all the teeth went. Polaris covered new gears and chain but made me pay for the oil.
My point is that I would have much rather lost a belt. I wouldn't have had the heat issue. If the cogs let loose I likely would have been able to get the sled up to speed and cruised out. If someone had a belt at the truck they could have gone back and picked it up. I like the progress of the belt even with the growing pains.
At the end of the 2011 season I rode in the spring on my '11 Pro and blew up my chain and gears. We were jumping in heavy slushy snow. I thought my track was ratcheting but I lost some teeth on the top gear. I lost all the oil when we tore it down on the trail. That sled rode another 20 miles with no oil on three teeth! Finally it was too hot and all the teeth went. Polaris covered new gears and chain but made me pay for the oil.
My point is that I would have much rather lost a belt. I wouldn't have had the heat issue. If the cogs let loose I likely would have been able to get the sled up to speed and cruised out. If someone had a belt at the truck they could have gone back and picked it up. I like the progress of the belt even with the growing pains.
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aebsledder
Well-known member
Off topic...but I don't care
Sorry, you choose your own name on this forum. And choosing that particular name is absolutely STUPID. Yeah, I get the freedom of speech thing. But anybody who understands freedom of speech should also understand what that name represents and how nothing good can ever come from it. If it's your family name, (which I doubt it is) I would change it. Oh yeah, mechanical things break, all the time.
Sorry, you choose your own name on this forum. And choosing that particular name is absolutely STUPID. Yeah, I get the freedom of speech thing. But anybody who understands freedom of speech should also understand what that name represents and how nothing good can ever come from it. If it's your family name, (which I doubt it is) I would change it. Oh yeah, mechanical things break, all the time.
belt drives
belt drives.......good news is they are light and they free-up hp. bad news is they aren't as durable as a chain/gear setup. i speak from experience as i have owned a cmx unit for a long time. there is no question about the performance but there is a reason you don't see them in snowcross or hillclimbs or on the 2013 assault. shock loads. my biggest area for failure was if you landed from a jump and had braked in the air. i actually tried to make it a point to get the track spinning again right before impact. ad boivin addressed this on their snowhawks by using a slipper gear.
fyi, if you lose cogs (i have never actually broken a belt), your sled will act like your track is ratcheting badly. if the failure happens on the trail, you may be able to get back to the trailer without replacing. if it happens in deep snow, you're hosed. you will keep losing cogs. i can tell you what i hated the most was putting on my spare belt and then having to take it easy the rest of the day so i would make it back to the trailer. the gains were substantial enough though, i still ran it on the sleds i wanted max power out of including my last tapex which was an animal.
when i had heard polaris was going this route, i was curious if they figured something out and it probably is too early to call it an issue even though low snow conditions is hardly what i would call an explanation. if like a cmx, proper adjustment is critical. i have been tempted to try a c3 unit but am leery.
jeff
belt drives.......good news is they are light and they free-up hp. bad news is they aren't as durable as a chain/gear setup. i speak from experience as i have owned a cmx unit for a long time. there is no question about the performance but there is a reason you don't see them in snowcross or hillclimbs or on the 2013 assault. shock loads. my biggest area for failure was if you landed from a jump and had braked in the air. i actually tried to make it a point to get the track spinning again right before impact. ad boivin addressed this on their snowhawks by using a slipper gear.
fyi, if you lose cogs (i have never actually broken a belt), your sled will act like your track is ratcheting badly. if the failure happens on the trail, you may be able to get back to the trailer without replacing. if it happens in deep snow, you're hosed. you will keep losing cogs. i can tell you what i hated the most was putting on my spare belt and then having to take it easy the rest of the day so i would make it back to the trailer. the gains were substantial enough though, i still ran it on the sleds i wanted max power out of including my last tapex which was an animal.
when i had heard polaris was going this route, i was curious if they figured something out and it probably is too early to call it an issue even though low snow conditions is hardly what i would call an explanation. if like a cmx, proper adjustment is critical. i have been tempted to try a c3 unit but am leery.
jeff
We were told by Polaris that the belt will probably never break but the cogs will rip off under a heavy shock load. I.E. usuing the sled in low snow conditions, jumping the sled. A failure of the belt is not covered under warranty. There is a reason the pro rmk is the only sled they put the belt drive on. It is purpose built for deep snow. If you want to ditch bang and ride hard pack or low snow buy an assault or the standard rmk.
I hope their new RMKs aren't just sitting there to look pretty. People want to ride the bag off them. How many problems did the demos have that they did n't cure. Sure would suck if it were a problem.
All engineered mechanical things have a performance envelope, including known and predicted points of failure. Manufacturers of anything mechanical rely on their engineering and design teams to create parts that meet functional parameters and meet performance objectives within an anticipated range of operating conditions. And all at the lowest possible cost. This operating range is the "envelope".
Snowmobiles and their associated component parts are no different.
In the case of the 2013 Poo belt drive, it was designed to withstand certain stresses within a known or anticipated range. Given that it was put on a purpose-built deep-snow machine, the engineers anticipated a somewhat smooth force, or loading, curve for the belt. They did this because these are predictable conditions associated with deep snow.
Fast forward to this thread: In several posts credible, highly experienced riders and wrenches tell us that Poo reps told them that the belt was DESIGNED to shed interior lugs if the drive train experienced too high of a shock load. I'm not an engineer but I assume this was done to protect the far more expensive drive system. Kind of like an aluminum prop on an outboard--hit bottom or debris and you replace a $100 prop, but that same obstacle with a stainless steel prop and you might be replacing an entire lower unit. Why? Whatever force is not absorbed by the sacrificial part(s) gets transferred to the next weakest link in the chain. Same thing applies to the Poo belt drive. If subjected to forces beyond the design parameters, the belt fails to save the drive train from further damage.
If these belts strip in deep snow then there's an issue but if these so called failures result from either operator error or guys tear-assing around in 4 inches of snow, well then...DUH!
To expect this belt to be indestructible, especially when the sled is being run in snow conditions for which it was not designed, is at best unrealistic. That the lugs shear but the belt stays intact thereby allowing the sled to be limped back to the truck is actually pretty ingenious.
Then again there's always the wall-eyed brand-nazi's who sign up to badmouth anything not made by BRP.
Snowmobiles and their associated component parts are no different.
In the case of the 2013 Poo belt drive, it was designed to withstand certain stresses within a known or anticipated range. Given that it was put on a purpose-built deep-snow machine, the engineers anticipated a somewhat smooth force, or loading, curve for the belt. They did this because these are predictable conditions associated with deep snow.
Fast forward to this thread: In several posts credible, highly experienced riders and wrenches tell us that Poo reps told them that the belt was DESIGNED to shed interior lugs if the drive train experienced too high of a shock load. I'm not an engineer but I assume this was done to protect the far more expensive drive system. Kind of like an aluminum prop on an outboard--hit bottom or debris and you replace a $100 prop, but that same obstacle with a stainless steel prop and you might be replacing an entire lower unit. Why? Whatever force is not absorbed by the sacrificial part(s) gets transferred to the next weakest link in the chain. Same thing applies to the Poo belt drive. If subjected to forces beyond the design parameters, the belt fails to save the drive train from further damage.
If these belts strip in deep snow then there's an issue but if these so called failures result from either operator error or guys tear-assing around in 4 inches of snow, well then...DUH!
To expect this belt to be indestructible, especially when the sled is being run in snow conditions for which it was not designed, is at best unrealistic. That the lugs shear but the belt stays intact thereby allowing the sled to be limped back to the truck is actually pretty ingenious.
Then again there's always the wall-eyed brand-nazi's who sign up to badmouth anything not made by BRP.
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bwylde
Well-known member
and If you are gonna compare these belts to a Harley, Harley primary belts are very similar to these belts, in principle also, and i have seen a few stripped in the 30 plus years i've been riding and working on them, and the rear belts are almost identical to the clutch belt, and they do break, like anything else, under the right conditions.
figured everyone else is puttin in 2 cents worth, i may as well too.lol (beer)
figured everyone else is puttin in 2 cents worth, i may as well too.lol (beer)
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
its a great idea for meadow riders.but for extreme riding we dont know at what point will the cogs let go.stay tuned.
Great idea but the nhra guys haven't figured it out on 100000 race engines . there going to break. Just stay out of the water had a friend that had a cmx and it would slip
4th Wolf, very well stated post except........the low snow conditions part. Regardless of the snow depth, we will find rocks, stumps, and other terra firma. I manage to find terra firma when there has been 300" to 400" of snow. I tear lugs off the track, I've ratcheted the track even with the 3rd driver Poo uses and proper track tension. I have never lost a day of riding from a chaincase. The envelope you are referring to makes sense to anyone that reads it, that isn't the issue. IMO, the issue is that they simply focused on losing weight and gave us a weaker driveline and added $165 part to replace when I reach the weak link.
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Slick
Well-known member
he said extreme riding not extreme typing, so you'd be safe. Plus, you can relax you being on a Doo with all that proven new tipsy tilty stuff.
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