Motorfist Clothing

[Hawkster]

Theres a lot of good examples between E-vent and Gortex in here, so far I haven't been able to find anything that can top Gortex for durability yet. Motofist doesn't make any boots do they? Reason I ask is the same reason one of the guys mentioned about E-vents weakness to stitching.The neighbor was just jacked about his new $350 hikers that are so comfortable and he took goat hunting. He came back five days later and I asked how his new E-vent hikers worked, he said they where very comfortable but his feet where wet by the second day. He showed me them and it was pretty obvious because the red die of the leather was inside his boots all the way around the stitching. He E-mailed the manufacture twice so far, and no answer. Motofists has a warranty and as long as they stand by it like Klim then it aught to work.

 

[drinkwyo]

Theres a lot of good examples between E-vent and Gortex in here, so far I haven't been able to find anything that can top Gortex for durability yet. Motofist doesn't make any boots do they? Reason I ask is the same reason one of the guys mentioned about E-vents weakness to stitching.The neighbor was just jacked about his new $350 hikers that are so comfortable and he took goat hunting. He came back five days later and I asked how his new E-vent hikers worked, he said they where very comfortable but his feet where wet by the second day. He showed me them and it was pretty obvious because the red die of the leather was inside his boots all the way around the stitching. He E-mailed the manufacture twice so far, and no answer. Motofists has a warranty and as long as they stand by it like Klim then it aught to work.

NOPE. NO BOOTS THAT I AM AWARE OF FROM MF

 

[Clayton]

I rode for 3 years with a set of Polaris event bibs and jacket. Great product and worked very well. After 3 years I noticed some minor delamination in the knees of my bibs. It was like small bubbles the size water drops. Jacket still looks great. Honestly after 3 years of riding, crawling around in the shop, and general abuse...I fell like I got my money's worth anyway. Those bibs will now be my backup. I talked my dealer into throwing in a new pair of Motofist bibs with my 2011 RMK Pro

 

[m8magicandmystery]

well the best competition is your own competition...don;t be surprised if Moto-fist is actually bankrolled and owned by Klim with front men

 

[Jorli]

I really don't think it matters what gear you use, if you ride on the south coast of bc, you are going to get wet even with a yellow captain highliner rain jacket. I am happy to get 1 season of out a set of gear, every company is producing descend gear now, pick your favorite colors and run with it until you get bored or too wet for comfort. The fabrics only last so long-(3 months of real use on average), oddly I was looking at some 10 year old Burton jackets made from 3 ply Goretex and they are still in great shape, probably not as waterproof as they used to be.

I don't think Johnnylingo's statements are unfair, any company that learns from their mistakes knows not to repeat them or it will lead to financial ruin.

 

[JOHNNYLINGO]

Johhnylingo...why jump on a motorfist thread and start stating that they use inferior materials? Especially after stating you work for Klim.

If I owned the company I would ask you politetly to refrain from representing it on the web.


IMO...nothing makes a company look worse than trying to put down their competitors. If the product you are making is superior it will speak for itself.



But since I don't own the company....and appearantly you got something to say....please keep it coming, your regurgitation of usless facts to prove your point is amusing.


No way...gortex in space...along with all the other 30 year old technology the aging shuttle is equiped with....sweet.

Klim had been falsely accused by drinkwyo of trying to influence the thread in secret. We don’t do things like that. I felt it only fair that we got on here to set the story straight. I also felt that people needed to know that what handfullthrottle said was accurate and not made up.

We did try Event, we did test it, and we have knowledge to share on the subject.

Tudazzle how would you have handled this? Would you have just ignored what drinkwyo said and let people read into it how they wanted? I agree with you, you should let the product speak for itself. You do not need to bash someone’s product to build up your own. I do not believe I was doing that. We have firsthand experience with a fabric that was being discussed in the thread. I decided to share that knowledge with you. I mentioned no manufacture, and there are several that employ the material being discussed.

As you can see I have been a forum member since 2007. I actually go back further than that, but at one point had to restart my account. You will notice that I have very few posts. My philosophy is to learn from threads and not to influence them. When I do post I am clear with who I represent, like I was here.

I have always felt that these forums should be as commercial free as possible. It should be the end consumer that should be able to get on the forum and learn from other end consumers. If you want an advertisement visit that company’s website. If you want shared knowledge from other end consumers and enthusiasts, visit the forum. Unfortunately other companies do not feel the way I do and use these forums anonymously to push their agendas.

Since you brought it up I will respond to the topic of Gore being “30 years old”. Gore pioneered fluoropolymers and invented ePTFE.

Today you will use 4 or 5 of their related technologies before lunch. When you place a call on your cell phone you are employing Gore technology that improves the integrity of the signal. Your car employs Gore technologies to keep the moisture out of your headlamps. The cabling in your home or office may use Gore tech to insulate it from interference and to prolong its effective life. If you were to break a bone, Gore technology can make the experience of healing much more pleasant with breathable casts. Many of the electronics you use have smaller more efficient capacitors based on the technology Gore has developed. Soon we may all be driving cars that are powered by hydrogen cells. These cells would not be possible without Gore technologies. We breath cleaner air today because of Gore’s ability to make filters that capture pollutants from factories.

Today Gore technologies are improving oil and mineral exploration, improving the rate of organic waste treatment, improving fire safety, medical and pharmaceutical products, and aeronautics. Gore has found that the fluoropolymer can be modeled and altered to come up with thousands of different uses. Yes, it even includes the space suit that protects the wearer from -156F to 250F. Gore is the technological leader in a handful of industries not just this one.

Along with being able to develop many different uses over the last 30 years Gore has also been able improve on the material itself. The membrane they employed 30 years ago is not what we use today. Gore is not one to rest on its laurels. Event is a great example of this. Event was a previous version of Gore-Tex, but it did not hold up to Gore-Tex standards due to durability issues.

Gore-Tex puts more money, time, and effort into insuring that their membrane functions the best for each end use than any other fabric company. Gore’s innovative testing procedures have become a marketable product all of their own.

Let’s pretend for a moment that there is no advantage in the membrane itself. Gore would still have the superior product because they have a superior process of laminated that membrane to the face fabric, of construction of the garment, and of inner lining usage and seam sealing. Gore has strict standards and accountability for any factory or manufacture that produces a product comprised of Gore materials. No one else puts the time attention and effort into the whole picture like Gore does.

Our warranty;
Out of the entire product we ship only one half of one percent ever comes back for warranty evaluation. The best warranty is the one you won’t need. When a customer does need to rely on our warranty, our warranty statement is clear and unchanged; our friendly customer service is standing-by. Years of experience in satisfying the customer is waiting. Any warranty is only as durable as the company that offers it. We are firmly rooted and have been for the last 10 years.

Our warranty rate is monitored very closely and has virtually been unchanged over the last 10 years. Our warranty rate is again less than ½ of a percent. You don’t get there except by vigilant effort to create the best possible products.

Our product department has changed much since the beginning. Originally there were just a couple of us tasked with doing everything. Now our product department consists of 7 in-house people and others that live close to the factories year around.

Our product team does everything in their power to assure the highest quality possible product.

We know if we deny a warranty claim that the chances of that person jumping on a forum to complain are very high. Therefore our warranty process is very fair and consistent and involves a number of people to determine how the warranty should be applied in each individual case.

We don’t want Klim consumers as a whole paying the bill of those who have destroyed their product repeatedly by recklessness. We also never want to see a customer with a product that has failed due to workmanship, materials, etc who is not compensated with a replacement piece or by some other way. It is by great effort that we have provided the best warranty in the industry, and we are proud of our track record.

 

[backcountryislife]

JL,

Thanks for responding. I disagree with you about what you feel is recklessness, but at least you've got the huevos to post back up & stand up for what you're saying.

Looking, for example at tuDAZZZLE's gloves he posted up last year, the fabric was PERFECT (appeared to be in pics), but stitching had released. Now you can claim that any failure is due to use, but I feel that most of us on here are enthusiasts & spend more than average time on our sleds (I would hope...) and because of that we are willing to spend more money on gear to stand up to that use. If a warranty is denied because a product was used, then that warranty isn't much good now is it? I'm not saying a ripped in 1/2 jacket that got caught in a track should be replaced, but I am saying that IMO, unless there is outstanding evidence that something was abused well beyond the average for the sport (I'm not talking about how the fat lady from haydays in MN rides, I mean REAL riders) that a failure should be taken care of. A boot that gets torn up by hitting the bolt that is on EVERY sled ever made... would be an example of an item that obviously wasn't designed for the intended use & when it fails from that I would hope for some help.

Basically, I'm just saying that if I pay premium ticket price as we all do for Klim gear, that we expect that this premium goes towards making sure our gear will be covered when it wears out from it's intended use.

 

[samiams2]

I know that the thread title is for MotorFist but the subject of Gore/Klim has come up and I have something to add.

Several comments have been made about Klim not standing behind there products. I have had the EXACT opposite experience.

I personally have had Klim bib/gloves for 3 seasons, boots for 1 season. I have had the seams split on my gloves on 2 occasions, after only a couple of rides. Both times, Klim has stood behind their product 100% giving me zero hassle. I called them up, they gave me a claim #, and w/in 2wks of sending the gloves back, i have had a brand new pair waiting in my mailbox. They never required me to dig up a receipt, explain anything, and it was taken care of immediately.

A Buddy of mine had his gloves for 4-5yrs, and the leather palm tore, not even really a manufacture defect, same experience. They replaced them immediately.

Same buddy, has Klim Valdez jacket, that got an hole melted in it by a floating ember during a backcountry bon fire we had one day. He called them up, sent it in expecting to have to pay handsomely to have it fixed. All I remember is the total bill was less than $30 for shipping and the repair(a very nice, discreet looking gore-tex patch).

I am sure there are horror stories out there for every company but all I have experience with Klim has been above and beyond. Great product, great customer service. And it is the reason I keep buying Klim. Just picked up a 2010 Valdez at Haydays.

I have also owned several pieces of gear with eVent. 2 coats, 3 boots, and a pair of rain pants. My experience has been that the eVent has been waterproof about 60% of the time. 2 of 3 boots I've had with event leaked while hiking in rainy conditions(not slosh over the top leaking but soak thru the boot leaking). and the event, IMHO, is not nearly as breathable as the gore tex stuff i've owned. I sweat way more in my event coat, and my socks are always wet when wearing the eVent apparel. Not the case with my goretex jacket, bibs, multiple boots, and gloves. I also always layer in the correct way so the comparisons are apples to apples.

just my .02 and my real world experience.

keep us informed, all you motorfist buyers, how the product works and how the customer service is.

samiam

 

[ACMtnCat]

[/FONT] We know if we deny a warranty claim that the chances of that person jumping on a forum to complain are very high. Therefore our warranty process is very fair and consistent and involves a number of people to determine how the warranty should be applied in each individual case.



We don’t want Klim consumers as a whole paying the bill of those who have destroyed their product repeatedly by recklessness. We also never want to see a customer with a product that has failed due to workmanship, materials, etc who is not compensated with a replacement piece or by some other way. It is by great effort that we have provided the best warranty in the industry, and we are proud of our track record.

Two different Klim dealers and 4-5 Klim customers looked at my bibs before I sent them in for warranty issues and they told me "send them in, Klim should warranty those" and "Klim replaced my 6 year old bibs and they were allot worse than yours!". So I send them in and in short order Klim calls me to tell me that they will NOT warranty my bibs do to the small holes in the knees. Sorry she says, we'll send them back to you today.

No help at all! No option to have them fixed or a discount on a new pair of bibs. NOTHING! SORRY!

Now I find this very inconsistent with your warranty proccess you told us about above. I feel that I DID NOT abuse my bibs and that they should have been replaced do to the garmet not keeping my butt and legs dry any more and do to the failure of the material and stitching in the pant legs.

I know that the thread title is for MotorFist but the subject of Gore/Klim has come up and I have something to add.

Several comments have been made about Klim not standing behind there products. I have had the EXACT opposite experience.

I personally have had Klim bib/gloves for 3 seasons, boots for 1 season. I have had the seams split on my gloves on 2 occasions, after only a couple of rides. Both times, Klim has stood behind their product 100% giving me zero hassle. I called them up, they gave me a claim #, and w/in 2wks of sending the gloves back, i have had a brand new pair waiting in my mailbox. They never required me to dig up a receipt, explain anything, and it was taken care of immediately.

A Buddy of mine had his gloves for 4-5yrs, and the leather palm tore, not even really a manufacture defect, same experience. They replaced them immediately.

Same buddy, has Klim Valdez jacket, that got an hole melted in it by a floating ember during a backcountry bon fire we had one day. He called them up, sent it in expecting to have to pay handsomely to have it fixed. All I remember is the total bill was less than $30 for shipping and the repair(a very nice, discreet looking gore-tex patch).

samiam

^^^^This is what I expected from Kilm!^^^^

But I got the EXACT oppisite!



.

 

[H.I. McDunna]

Just some info on eVent....it is owned by GE. eVent is patented in their membrane where Gore I think is not on all points anymore.

Probably 5 out of 5 things you do today will require a GE product. Almost if you breathe....you can thank GE. Well not really but darn close. So Gore doesn't run your life. Where GE might!

eVent works. It is proven. Snowmobile companies have used it with YEARS of butts on seats in the stuff. Others on here tell of it and it works. Will it leak? yes. Will Gore leak. Yes. it happens like many on here have told.

KLIM is defending their product. Just remember that they are so they must be scared of eVent or MotorFist. Why else would they post something like that?

Have they ever ripped on another clothing manufactuers before like this? Makes you wonder, huh. What is so scary about this little company, Motorfist, with eVent????

MotorFist isn't for everybody. But those that do like it and wear it know what it can provide.

 

[MAC29]

well the best competition is your own competition...don;t be surprised if Moto-fist is actually bankrolled and owned by Klim with front men

This might be closer to the truth more than you think. I believe the one partner for motorfist(ball) used to be part owner of klim.

 

[Reese]

This might be closer to the truth more than you think. I believe the one partner for motorfist(ball) used to be part owner of klim.

Since we are playing guess the owner. Motofist was started by the former North American distributer for TOBE and alticity owner. Mr. Josh Skinner. Good on him having the guts roll the dice and start somthing new when TOBE went under.

If anyone feels like giving out prizes for the correct answer I would like a pair of these fine motofist W.O.T. Glove's...http://www.motorfist.com/product.php?p=15&c=5

 

[JustinB]

Motofist, Sled neck

I am also looking into new gear this season as for post here on SW, DooTalk and others I Have leaned away from Klim. Now don't take it wrong but as a business man If you took a product from me and it didn't work or stopped working I would fix it. if you broke it you fix it. I have had friends riding Klim gear for years, no issues but I had one friend have a bad experience last year with warranty (guess which one I hear about the most) No w I have researched motofist but I am also looinkng into sledneck gear I like the look of it anyone been riding
sledneck gear

 

[Powking77]

Motorfist warranty

While there has been some good insight here i dont think anyone has actually answered my question as far as what the bluebird warranty actually covers?

 

[m8magicandmystery]

Since we are playing guess the owner. Motofist was started by the former North American distributer for TOBE and alticity owner. Mr. Josh Skinner. Good on him having the guts roll the dice and start somthing new when TOBE went under.

If anyone feels like giving out prizes for the correct answer I would like a pair of these fine motofist W.O.T. Glove's...http://www.motorfist.com/product.php?p=15&c=5

thats old old news...

 

[Colo4x4XJ]

Hello All! First time Snowest poster, long time reader. I have been involved in the ski industry for a number of years. Actually still have one of Gore's prototype jackets from when they were developing their membrane 30+ years ago. The shop I work in sells river gear in the summer and ski gear in the winter. Companies make items called drytops to seal out any water from touching your skin while UPSIDEDOWN UNDERWATER while kayaking. And these drytops are made out of all kinds of fabrics, two of which are Gore-Tex proshell and E-Vent. From mine and my friends experiences, if you want dry you buy Gore-Tex. I have seen countless E-Vent products become delaminated at the seams as well as leaky seams leading to wet, cold, unhappy paddlers. Breathability also prevails with Gore Tex. It isnt uncommon that the air temp is 85+ and the water is 32 degrees so the garment MUST breathe, otherwise you get the trashbag effect where there is more moisture on the inside of the jacket than the outside. Nothing worse than feeling clammy on a 90 degree day.

As far as warranties go. More often than not a "really really good warranty" is a companies way of saying "our product isnt that great qand will probebly fail, so here is our way of fixing it". I have seen this all too often with manufactorers and their products. Sure they may "stand by their product" by offering a 1000 Year Warranty but that might involve you warrantying it a thousand times. The company may send you all new gear but not address the problem. That means the **** keeps breaking, and breaking and breaking and breaking. I dont know about you but I would much rather have a product that works the first time everytime then having to warranty an item three times. Will that 106 Year Warranty automatically teleport you a new jacket when you blow a seam on yours in the middle of a 5 day backcountry trip? And a loaner jacket? Great a sub-par piece of **** that 5 people before me beat the **** out of. Surely trusting that!

 

[Colo4x4XJ]

Also with getting items warrantied. Honey catches more flies than vinager. The person on the other end of that phone call is a person too and probebly does not appreciate hearing your spew of how bad the companies product is. Often times this works: Complement the products features and advantages but that you were disappointed that something happened like unstitching, delamming etc.
On the contrary, there are a lot of stingy people trying to warranty products because it failed because it wasnt used correctly, then spewing on a forum like this. Do you change your oil in a tux?

 

[H.I. McDunna]

The Bluebird warranty is...

1 -5 year warranty on all outerwear.

2- If you have a warranty claim Motorfist will send you new gear to ride in until your outerwear is repaired.

So basically if you have a problem you will recieve the latest gear to ride in until the garment is fixed so you "never loose a bluebird day" of riding



"On the contrary, there are a lot of stingy people trying to warranty products because it failed because it wasnt used correctly, then spewing on a forum like this. Do you change your oil in a tux?"

Thanks for posting for your 5th post and bagging on members who have been contributing for some time. For a 5th post you seem to be a knowledable guy from another industry and probably were invited to come on here to post with an agenda. you can see it in your post. You want to paint MotorFist as Sub-Par. Tell the members who are using the gear, which are many, that it is such that have freely posted their opinions on this forum.

With this knowledge you have of "other industries" i am sure you know this:

1- The American Alpine Institue gives eVent waterproof fabrics the prestigious 2007 Guides Choice Award

2- "The US Army’s Natick tests of waterproof-breathable laminates reported that eVENT fabric, a patented ePTFE-based membrane produced and marketed by BHA Technologies, Inc. proved to be the most breathable of all materials tested, averaging twice the breathability of its closest competitor. Testing included the likes of Gore-Tex XCR®, Sympatex®, and various other waterproof-breathable fabrics."

I am sure you can doubt eVent but it has years under its belt in action. But be careful. Namely this industry which you seem to admit you have little familiarity with snowmobiling, Polaris, has used eVent has a 1% faliure rate. Not to mention THE MEMBERS ON THIS FORUM WHO HAVE USED AND ARE USING eVent WITH SUCCESS. Do you boo-hoo them as well???

AND...REi the largest outerwear retailer USES EVent for THIER OWN LINE. Not Gore. Here is a test they performed on their corporate youtube site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi0DaHQ5ro4

AND dudes in the trailer houses prove it with their own coffee mugs!!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLGGcVOz1zA

Tell all those on this forum who have tried eVent that it does'nt work and that it doesn't work for very long and you will offend them. They ride in it and have rode in eVent garments for years. Proof is the pudding.

 

[backcountryislife]

COLO4X4XJ,

As a paddler also, I buy from companies like Patagucci, Jackson, Werner... WHY do I buy from patagucci??? Because they stand behind their gear. The gear I've bought from them has been gore-tex, but if or when it fails they take care of you. I've NEVER in quite a few years of being a class V boater & working in the industry heard of instances where they have had any issues with customer support.

I know the two industries are rather different, but I find the companies that take care of their customers learn quickly to improve, because they're not going to keep taking back the same gear over & over.

I don't disagree about Gore-tex being a great product, I just feel that the garment itself being covered is very important to me.

I don't think motorfist is going to be another waterstick...

 

[H.I. McDunna]

I don't know what Waterstick is but I think they suck...lol