McCall Trails, Need a favor

[switchback04]

I suggest that you check with Valley County and Idaho Dept. of Parks & Rec as to where the responsibility lies. Unless I'm mistaken, when the grooming shed and parking lot were completed, by the snowmobile club, and taken over by the County, it became their responsibility.

I wonder why a groomer was used to clear a county road or why a groomer ened up in Cascade Lake. Could it be that the person in charge is NOT fulfilling his responsibilities? I can't believe that there are that many people that fall for his BS. Let alone the other BS that goes on in this orum. Are you people really that stupid? If you are, I'm losing faith. Do you really believe all you read?

Well said Gary... I'm glad you and Doug had a chance to meet a week ago.

A lot of people have commented to me about the parking situation thinking that it was up to the grooming crew... I only recently found out that it's McCall's snowmobile club that is suppose to keep the parking lot clear. I wonder how many hours they've used that loader this winter and if they spent their money wisely. I know we've had a lot of snow but the lot is the worst it's been in years. I'd say it's close to have the size it usually is and the rental companies are using it has trailer storage ( I don't think that should be allowed, basically run a business out of the lot).

 

[Extreme-One]

Wow... you seem to take this a little personal... maybe you know more then you're letting on. It was my understanding from sitting in a on a meeting or two that McCall Snowmobile club was still in charge of the parking lot and it's removal of snow and the county was responsible for clearing the road to the end of Warren. If you have the time call the county for us and enlighten the masses to what the policy is.

All I can say is I hope that this mess gets straightened out... I don't know about the road you're talking about that got cleared, but the goomer in the lake was operator's error... not the one in charge. As for all the BS on here... yep there is a lot but I try to do my best at finding out the facts.

Switchback04... only three posts and you look like you just joined (3-23-2008) to stir the pot... why don't you have your profile filled out?

 

[sledhauler07]

You can be a problem maker or problem solver...

So is this about the trails or the lot clearing??? Seems like there is a whole big story going on here and I for one don't seem to have a handle on all of it. Anyone care to share the details in a less criptic manner?

As for the "other 100 miles"... I ride west mtn from Anderson, from council, and from the north end. All the rides I did this year there were fine. One day the trail was pretty beat up but it was a week day and I don't think they had been up Anderson to 4 corners hut yet.

I also rode the trinities alot this year and their trails weren't bad... most of the time. I rode out of cougar mtn / smith's ferry also and thought their trails were in good shape most of the time... is that enough "exploring the other 100 miles" for you? Admittedly, I only care to ride the trails long enough to get off in the steep and deep but I do know a smooth trail from kidney smashing trail.

For my money Doug and the guys (and the other grooming areas) have provided me with everything I could hope to expect as far as trails were concerned. As for the parking lots, ya they could have be smoother or bigger or had a better road in and out... so what. It's winter... roads get covered, there is only so much snow you can move away and I dought you took the time to get into any piece of equipment and run it as much as you do your mouth. Talk about BS! Maybe what you meant to say was "thanks for all that you were able to do this year, maybe next year we could work on this... " and then offer some suggestions instead of just whining.

Wow, that was a rant huh? Sorry but it seems like a few really push my buttons at times. Doug (and other groomers from all areas) you have my thanks and I will gladly spend my money in your areas.

Hauler

 

[switchback04]

Just wondering how far north you went on your rides? I live 5 miles out West Mountain Road and the grooming in this area has been dreadfull. We had friends out from the coast and had to turn back at the top of Red Ridge because they were newbees and did not feel comfortable breaking trail. We went back to "C" and tried to make the loop around Fish Lake. That had not been groomed either. If you have a Forest Service issued snowmobile map, I am referring to interesections A-M.

Not sure when you've been riding around West Mountain but sense we stay at a place in Donnelly we ride quite a bit from that side and the trails have been groomed quite frequently, more regular then years past. And the times I've talked to friends that ride from the Cascade side have said that the trails there have been good with the exception sense the groomer went in the lake and now the groomer from Donnelly has been trying to cover that as well.

 

[switchback04]

Yes, I just joined because I wanted to express my opionion on the grooming in the McCall area. Since when has voicing an opinion been considered "stirring the pot"? I thought I was only stating facts, that I know are true,to people that may have been misled on this thread. Isn't this still a free country, or does that apply only outside McCall, ID? Based on what I have experienced this year, I think the grooming schedule has been biased, but what do I know? I've only been sledding in this area for 5 years. Spend your own nickel and get the information from the county. I don't mean to be rude, but I have no fax or scanner. It is available under the Freedom of Information Act, if you only request it.

The road I am referring to is Warren Wagon Road. Some groomer operator decided to "help the county out" and groomed the road. They ended up using the groomer as a bulldozer and ended up on the guardrail, destroying several trees and I have pictures!

As to your question about filling out my profile....I put in all information required by this website. Maybe you can clue me in as to what I have missed?

Wow... you seem to take this a little personal... maybe you know more then you're letting on. It was my understanding from sitting in a on a meeting or two that McCall Snowmobile club was still in charge of the parking lot and it's removal of snow and the county was responsible for clearing the road to the end of Warren. If you have the time call the county for us and enlighten the masses to what the policy is.

All I can say is I hope that this mess gets straightened out... I don't know about the road you're talking about that got cleared, but the goomer in the lake was operator's error... not the one in charge. As for all the BS on here... yep there is a lot but I try to do my best at finding out the facts.

Switchback04... only three posts and you look like you just joined (3-23-2008) to stir the pot... why don't you have your profile filled out?

 

[switchback04]

Yes, I am whining! I don't think that the dollars collected for grooming should all be spent in one specific area! I think that all money collected for 43A should be equally allocated throughout that area. I find that the questions and responses in this forum also tend to be biased to Warren Wagon Road and Brundage Mtn. area Do I get a voice or is this also a social club?

So is this about the trails or the lot clearing??? Seems like there is a whole big story going on here and I for one don't seem to have a handle on all of it. Anyone care to share the details in a less criptic manner?

As for the "other 100 miles"... I ride west mtn from Anderson, from council, and from the north end. All the rides I did this year there were fine. One day the trail was pretty beat up but it was a week day and I don't think they had been up Anderson to 4 corners hut yet.

I also rode the trinities alot this year and their trails weren't bad... most of the time. I rode out of cougar mtn / smith's ferry also and thought their trails were in good shape most of the time... is that enough "exploring the other 100 miles" for you? Admittedly, I only care to ride the trails long enough to get off in the steep and deep but I do know a smooth trail from kidney smashing trail.

For my money Doug and the guys (and the other grooming areas) have provided me with everything I could hope to expect as far as trails were concerned. As for the parking lots, ya they could have be smoother or bigger or had a better road in and out... so what. It's winter... roads get covered, there is only so much snow you can move away and I dought you took the time to get into any piece of equipment and run it as much as you do your mouth. Talk about BS! Maybe what you meant to say was "thanks for all that you were able to do this year, maybe next year we could work on this... " and then offer some suggestions instead of just whining.

Wow, that was a rant huh? Sorry but it seems like a few really push my buttons at times. Doug (and other groomers from all areas) you have my thanks and I will gladly spend my money in your areas.

Hauler

 

[Wade]

Map in my signature below, he's referring to the central map.

Very interesting data you have provided there switchback. Your statements are very angry sounding. We'd like to hear some solutions.

So, instead of telling everyone how unfair it all is, could you tell us what you'd like to see changed. Honestly, I don't know anyone that snowmobiles those trails. Do you see many sleds on them? How would you judge the percentage of usage, versus say Warren/Brundage? Do you really expect these trails to be groomed as often as Warren? A lot of traffic on this trail is due to rental business, and out of towner's cruising. How often would like your trails groomed. Yes, most everyone here rides Brundage / Secesh / Pearl a lot, or up no business or Anderson. What does a snowcat hitting a guardrail/have to do with the schedule? Was it your tree that got damaged? What does the groomer in the lake have to do with the schedule? Do you believe these accidents were scheduled? What days of the week do you ride, weekends or weekdays? Are you retired? How has the grooming changed in the last 5 years on your trails? What kind of off trail riding is available in this area?

Filling out your profile lets people know who you are, and what your angle might be. Say, you used to be the coordinator of grooming, and you forgot to mention that. People want to know who their talking to. Not filling out is OK, just don't expect everyone to trust you. Most of us have meet many times.

May I add, if Doug Miller had been allowed to run the front loader, you wouldn't have gotten him off of till he feel asleep, or ran over something. He really wanted that frontend loader. I was actually bugging him about it in front of the groomer shed. He didn't say much, just asked me if I was allowed to drive it.

Show us those pictures.

I never believe anything I read on the internet. I check, and get to know people. Hope to hear your input. You should consider joining the grooming staff, I'm sure they have volunteer positions available.

 

[Fatrunt]

I would just like to put my two cents in on this debate. I'm in my 26th year of riding 43a and with the exception of when Jim Mcleod was the operator the trails in the north end of 43a have never been better. Keep in mind the trails around here are just like the highways the traffic volume has increased at least 100% in the last few years. The valley County Commissioners are in control of the 43a program. On the Adams side of the system the Road and Bridge crew maintain the parking lots and are paid out of the snowmobile fund. take some time to understand the nature of the program and be glad we have what we have.

 

[switchback04]

I am only angry in the respect that I don't think the dollars allocated to 43A are being equally distributed. The only solution I have is approach the Valley County Commisioners to have a verification that the grooming schedule, attached to your note, was actually accomplished by verification of timesheets of the groomers.

Maybe you don't ride those trails, but there are others that do. I see many others on the trail when I go up. And I am sure that the businesses in McCall would benefit from people that discovered other areas to ride. I don't expect the trails to be groomed as frequently as Warren is (that is to a much business and political thing to get into at this pont in time), but I do expect them to be groomed more that 3 times a year.

I wasn't a snowcat that hit the guardrail, it was the groomer on the county road.

No, it was not my tree.

The groomer in the lake has nothing to do with the schedule. My point,in that thread, was that someone needs to check with Valley County to determine responsibilities of groomer coordinators, groomers operators and the County.

I don't believe the accidents were scheduled, however, I do believe that if proper operation and maintenace of the equipment had been done, there would have been a better scheduling of grooming.

I ride on weekends.

I am not retired.

The way the grooming has changed in the last 5 years, is that the past year not much has been done in the trail system A-M.

There is a lot of off trail riding in this area. Come out and try it sometime.

I have no idea what your comment about Doug Miller and the front loasder is about.

And for your information, I am a SHE and NOT a he.

I'll try and figure out the profile stuff, if you think it is that inportant.

Map in my signature below, he's referring to the central map.

Very interesting data you have provided there switchback. Your statements are very angry sounding. We'd like to hear some solutions.

So, instead of telling everyone how unfair it all is, could you tell us what you'd like to see changed. Honestly, I don't know anyone that snowmobiles those trails. Do you see many sleds on them? How would you judge the percentage of usage, versus say Warren/Brundage? Do you really expect these trails to be groomed as often as Warren? A lot of traffic on this trail is due to rental business, and out of towner's cruising. How often would like your trails groomed. Yes, most everyone here rides Brundage / Secesh / Pearl a lot, or up no business or Anderson. What does a snowcat hitting a guardrail/have to do with the schedule? Was it your tree that got damaged? What does the groomer in the lake have to do with the schedule? Do you believe these accidents were scheduled? What days of the week do you ride, weekends or weekdays? Are you retired? How has the grooming changed in the last 5 years on your trails? What kind of off trail riding is available in this area?

Filling out your profile lets people know who you are, and what your angle might be. Say, you used to be the coordinator of grooming, and you forgot to mention that. People want to know who their talking to. Not filling out is OK, just don't expect everyone to trust you. Most of us have meet many times.

May I add, if Doug Miller had been allowed to run the front loader, you wouldn't have gotten him off of till he feel asleep, or ran over something. He really wanted that frontend loader. I was actually bugging him about it in front of the groomer shed. He didn't say much, just asked me if I was allowed to drive it.

Show us those pictures.

I never believe anything I read on the internet. I check, and get to know people. Hope to hear your input. You should consider joining the grooming staff, I'm sure they have volunteer positions available.

 

[Wade]

Sorry about calling you a he. English has very few good neuter descriptors.

So basically you want those trails groomed more often. That's fair. Hopefully, they can get a groomer in there more often next year. McCall can always use more area opened up. It's probably fair to say that most of us concentrate on the high usage, popular areas. They discussed that at the meeting with the forest service. Hopefully, with the higher sticker fee money coming into the system next year, they will have more money to work with. Cool.

 

[priest lake rmk]

I would like to see the Bulldozed trees pics. We rode out of the Warren Wagon parking lot last weekend and didn't notice any such thing. Trails were great. People need to learn how to park. On another note the drunk tree hugger up Lick Crick almost lost his life on St Pattys Day. I bet he checks himself before he threatens someone again.

 

[sled_guy]

I think you are mistaken if you think the money will get distrubted evening throughout all of 43A. It doesn't happen anywhere else... it is the job of someone (we can debate who I suppose) to determine which trails get more traffic and adjust the grooming schedule and therefor money accordingly. If a trail gets little traffic surely you wouldn't expect it to get groomed as often as one that gets lots of traffic.

As far as I can tell this thread has taken a pretty big turn from where it originally was headed. I know, surprising isn't it. But the fact remains that the trails I rode this year in the McCall area were better than they ever were when I was riding there regularly 5 years ago. They are good enough to convince me to come back to McCall.

Now if I ride the trails you do maybe I won't feel the same, but I spent 4 days covering a lot of territory in that area and liked what I saw in the way of trails.

sled_guy

 

[drmiller100]

Some people would complain if you hung 'em with a new rope.


Again, I'm pretty proud of the efforts we've done this year on our trails. Am I proud of our parking lots? Nope, not really.

For next year the parking lots will be one more thing the old mccall club will not be invited to be involved with.

Here is a classic analogy for those trying to keep score. I ask how our trails are. The complaints come back that our parking lots suck (which they do), and some lame trail that about 3 people ride every 10 years halfway between my butthole and the pimple on my left lower cheek wasn't groomed often enough.

And about 17,000 tourists love us and want to come back and spend millions of dollars for the local economy.

I'm good with that.

I'm also willing to sign my real name.

doug

 

[drmiller100]

I am only angry in the respect that I don't think the dollars allocated to 43A are being equally distributed. The only solution I have is approach the Valley County Commisioners to have a verification that the grooming schedule, attached to your note, was actually accomplished by verification of timesheets of the groomers.

Maybe you don't ride those trails, but there are others that do. I see many others on the trail when I go up. And I am sure that the businesses in McCall would benefit from people that discovered other areas to ride. I don't expect the trails to be groomed as frequently as Warren is (that is to a much business and political thing to get into at this pont in time), but I do expect them to be groomed more that 3 times a year.

I wasn't a snowcat that hit the guardrail, it was the groomer on the county road.

No, it was not my tree.

The groomer in the lake has nothing to do with the schedule. My point,in that thread, was that someone needs to check with Valley County to determine responsibilities of groomer coordinators, groomers operators and the County.

I don't believe the accidents were scheduled, however, I do believe that if proper operation and maintenace of the equipment had been done, there would have been a better scheduling of grooming.

I ride on weekends.

I am not retired.

The way the grooming has changed in the last 5 years, is that the past year not much has been done in the trail system A-M.

There is a lot of off trail riding in this area. Come out and try it sometime.

I have no idea what your comment about Doug Miller and the front loasder is about.

And for your information, I am a SHE and NOT a he.

I'll try and figure out the profile stuff, if you think it is that inportant.

A positive way to move forward.

RMKRIDER had heard some junk about what was going on up here. He had the gonads to walk up to me, say howdy, and both of us listened to what the other had to say. He had some good points. I gave him some hard data points to go investigate.

We both listened as adults with differences of opinions. When done, it seems he was told some stuff that wasn't totally true.

It seems you have concerns about maintenance of our equipment. Perhaps you have suggestions about how to improve our program? If not, perhaps we could find a newer rope for you?

I don't think you will really like the investigation of grooming dollars spent on McCall vs Donnelley. McCall has LOT and Adopt-A-Trail which is intended for the McCall area, and is almost half of hte total budget most years. Add to that the Sticker moneys should be spent at least evenly across the area, and Donnelley is going to be groomed less then other areas.

There was a hint at a Loader. I invite you to learn about the Loader Issue.

The Donnelley Snowmobile Club does a GREAT job of being a club. Their funrun is the best in the area, they help tremendously brush trails, they were the first in the area to get a groomer shed, their membership is active and huge.

If you are a member, thank you for supporting our program. if you are not, and ride out of that area, I ask you to join their group.

 

[sleeper910]

Great job

thanks doug for good trails been the best I have seen ......now only if washington could learn something form your trail maitence thank you

 

[dragonrmk]

Great Trails

The true be told, I don't know what seems to be the problem. All I can say is we travel to McCall 2 to 3 times a year to ride and the trails are excellent. We where in McCall in January and February this year and can't complain one bit about the trails.

I can say this, that this very public bit..ing isn't good for your tourism economy. People that read this stuff might just pick somewhere else if they think there is this big problem with the grooming. Money that will be lost will only affect your grooming and trail maintenance in the future. We spend plenty of dollars with your local community and purchase your trail permits. We like McCall for it's well diversified riding area's and quality trails.

If you all think you have it so bad why don't you come to Oregon and ride the Mt. Bachelor area and tell us what you think about are trails. I think when you are done riding here, you will be very appreciative of what you have in McCall with excellent trail.

just my opinion.

 

[Hunter2008]

I think you are mistaken if you think the money will get distrubted evening throughout all of 43A. It doesn't happen anywhere else... it is the job of someone (we can debate who I suppose) to determine which trails get more traffic and adjust the grooming schedule and therefor money accordingly. If a trail gets little traffic surely you wouldn't expect it to get groomed as often as one that gets lots of traffic.

As far as I can tell this thread has taken a pretty big turn from where it originally was headed. I know, surprising isn't it. But the fact remains that the trails I rode this year in the McCall area were better than they ever were when I was riding there regularly 5 years ago. They are good enough to convince me to come back to McCall.

Now if I ride the trails you do maybe I won't feel the same, but I spent 4 days covering a lot of territory in that area and liked what I saw in the way of trails.

sled_guy

There you go. The trails were good enough to bring this guy back up here. What's that tell you. It tells me that Doug and the crew are doing a Da#@ good job out there this year. Now if they can keep it up they will continue to bring good money from out of staters into our economy. So what I am getting at is, I thought the trails were awesome this year and you just need to stop Biotchin' about the trail system and go find one of the nicely groomed trails that are out there. There are plenty of them around if you would just try to find them.
My .02

 

[Hunter2008]

Yes, I just joined because I wanted to express my opionion on the grooming in the McCall area. Since when has voicing an opinion been considered "stirring the pot"? I thought I was only stating facts, that I know are true,to people that may have been misled on this thread. Isn't this still a free country, or does that apply only outside McCall, ID? Based on what I have experienced this year, I think the grooming schedule has been biased, but what do I know? I've only been sledding in this area for 5 years. Spend your own nickel and get the information from the county. I don't mean to be rude, but I have no fax or scanner. It is available under the Freedom of Information Act, if you only request it.

The road I am referring to is Warren Wagon Road. Some groomer operator decided to "help the county out" and groomed the road. They ended up using the groomer as a bulldozer and ended up on the guardrail, destroying several trees and I have pictures!

As to your question about filling out my profile....I put in all information required by this website. Maybe you can clue me in as to what I have missed?

WOW do we have another tree hugger? That's all we need.

 

[kmo]

Best I've ever seen them this year, great job. You will never satisfy everyone, but this you I think you satisfied most. I'm very happy with the McCall area grooming this year, but then again I understand more of what it takes and how the program works.

Keep up the great work!

 

[Bury Me With My Sled]

A positive way to move forward.

RMKRIDER had heard some junk about what was going on up here. He had the gonads to walk up to me, say howdy, and both of us listened to what the other had to say. He had some good points. I gave him some hard data points to go investigate.

We both listened as adults with differences of opinions. When done, it seems he was told some stuff that wasn't totally true.

It seems you have concerns about maintenance of our equipment. Perhaps you have suggestions about how to improve our program? If not, perhaps we could find a newer rope for you?

I don't think you will really like the investigation of grooming dollars spent on McCall vs Donnelley. McCall has LOT and Adopt-A-Trail which is intended for the McCall area, and is almost half of hte total budget most years. Add to that the Sticker moneys should be spent at least evenly across the area, and Donnelley is going to be groomed less then other areas.

There was a hint at a Loader. I invite you to learn about the Loader Issue.

The Donnelley Snowmobile Club does a GREAT job of being a club. Their funrun is the best in the area, they help tremendously brush trails, they were the first in the area to get a groomer shed, their membership is active and huge.

If you are a member, thank you for supporting our program. if you are not, and ride out of that area, I ask you to join their group.

This is great stuff I wish Doug Miller to move to Pine because what I heard from the locals say the groomer sits inside of the shed now because there is no more grooming funds left Maybe the peeps should of came to the Trinities this year because the grooming was awful....Not sure if it was because of maintenace problems or nobody to run it. Getting mixed emotions about the grooming in McCall but sounds like the trails have been kept in great shape if you don't like the grooming there maybe you should take a ride in the Trinities and bring your kidney belts