M1000 or Summit 860 bb?

[OuraySledder]

The 860 will "crush" the M1000???? Come on, how do you expect anyone to take this stuff seriously. So the 860 needs a pipe, can and clutching bolt ons too right? and it is ported, no?

Fact is, now that the '09 update is out, the M1000 with the slp pipe, can and clutching is a 190+ machine. With a 162" powerclaw there is no way the 860 XP is going to crush it. That is rediculous to even suggest. Even out the mods and the M1000 tops the 860, everytime.

I love this notion that there is some magic to the XP. That the Doo motor even 140cc shy of the Cat magically makes more power per cc, and is just going to crush the M1000. Then have fun rebuilding the Doo motor annually. I just don't get it. I see Poo guys defending the D8's and just laugh. I thought it was only Doo guys that put up with abyssmal quality and no factory support. The brand loyalty is a joke. Ride what works. Right now, like it or not, the Cats work. When something else works better, thats what I will ride.

End Rant...back to the regularly scheduled exagerrations....

 

[Jaynelson]

Oops you typed up your post in the wrong order so I went ahead and fixed it up for you. You're welcome

End Rant...back to the regularly scheduled exagerrations....

Fact is, now that the '09 update is out, the M1000 with the slp pipe, can and clutching is a 190+ machine

 

[backcountryislife]

Like it or not .. this is the reality of it from somebody who has owned both at the same time....

I normally agree with you on stuff, but the 860 must be hard to get set up right, cause I have yet to see that result. (I've ridden with two of yours & one other one with the M8 piston) You know what I ride, bolt ons, without even a pipe, no monster, and a short track.

Obviously as I've said before, it ALL depends on the sled being setup properly.

 

[PowderProject]

I normally agree with you on stuff, but the 860 must be hard to get set up right, cause I have yet to see that result. (I've ridden with two of yours & one other one with the M8 piston) You know what I ride, bolt ons, without even a pipe, no monster, and a short track.

Obviously as I've said before, it ALL depends on the sled being setup properly.

Exactly it all depends on how they are set up. My Trygstad 860 last year paired with Timbersled suspension and Fox floats crushed it (until it grenaded lol) The only sleds that could touch it had turbos. I am not bullsh!tting you. No reason to make sh!t up. For god sakes we are just talking about sleds here man. If your clutching is dialed then your xp will rocket. My clutching is puurfect and my sled kills it. When my clutching is off then I may as well go home. There is a reason I and pretty much everyone I know besides a few brand loyal guys ride xp's around here. (most of it has to do with a great ski doo dealer that rides what they work on.tune tune tune tune) I have NOTHING against any of the other brands. Like I have said MANY times. It is great to have all these sleds to choose from. Everyone is different and rides different. So with allllllll that in mind look me up the next time you are in Alpine and I will introduce you to Star Valley Ski Doo. They will make a stock XP beat any other STOCK sled.

 

[PowderProject]

This is the kind of post that keeps me out of this forum most of the time... laughable, silly comments like this.

if I put a pipe on a D7 it'll beat every xp out there!!! It's a fact!!!!!!

compare a mod sled to a stock sled, maybe you're right (bone stock), but what kinda guy buys a sled & leaves tons of HP on the table? Not the kind of guy that's going to buy a big bore.

When I had a Y & intake & p-claw on my sled for a while I ran with an 860 154x16, that he said was set up, in 2.5 to 3' pow. Topped him EVERY time (GOOD rider btw, & 30lbs lighter than me or so) with my little 141x15.

Does that mean EVERY M1000 will STOMP an 860? Of course not.

Continue with the usual silly biased crap that gets spewed here..... I didn't mean to interrupt.

If you put a pipe on you Dragon 700 you will beat any XP out there? interesting Dan Adams had a great running D7 three years ago. He had that thing running as good as it possibly could without adding a turbo. My 08 XP killed the dragon. Wasn't even close. SOOO of to boondockers was Dan. Now he kicks the crap out of us

 

[PowderProject]

For the $$ you have in your 860, I could buy a holdover M1000 for 7k, turbo it, and ride wheelies past you. Or I could have a sweet M1000 without a turbo, still ride anywhere I want, and have a KTM 450 for the summer. No brainer if you ask me

Your right
This year I am stock and stoked. The 860 is fun as sh!t but waaaay to spendy to fix when the break. Not worth it to me.

 

[Ricks 32]

No experience on the XP 860, only the polaris.

I have a good running '09 1000 with all SLP goodies and it works great. I have been on a 860 Dragon from Carls Cycle and it worked awesome. On a short steep hill, the 1000 didn't have any advantage on the 860. In a long pull, the 1000 as a distinct advantage. But let's be honest, the 1000 has to be set up well. I doubt any stock 1000 will come close to an 860 XP or Dragon.

The key is step no matter what the sled. I've seen far more crappy setup 1000's than good ones.

 

[Idaho Slim]

I normally agree with you on stuff, but the 860 must be hard to get set up right, .

Incorrect - Initial jetting and clutching / gearing is spot on with my SHR 860 & my tuning. If you are in this area and would like to see how it perfomrs, let me know.

My vote - forget the M1000, my SHR 700 regularly takes out the M, with the 860, it is embarrassing.

But what DOO I know

hmmm, lets see if I have that video of my 700 putting a whoopin on a M10 ...................

 

[RKT]

I normally agree with you on stuff, but the 860 must be hard to get set up right, cause I have yet to see that result. (I've ridden with two of yours & one other one with the M8 piston) You know what I ride, bolt ons, without even a pipe, no monster, and a short track.

Obviously as I've said before, it ALL depends on the sled being setup properly.

Kaleb,, VERY few will set up the 860 to the recs.. It is EXTREMELY easy to set up but people will just not set it up to recs.. So, when not set up correctly it is not nearly as impressive as when it is.. Same can be said for the M10.. Set up right.. it rocks.. set up wrong.. not so much..

But you know me, Kaleb, I have more Cats in my stable than Doo's but the reality is the reality.. the XP chassis floats MUCH better than the M chassis .. So, it is NOT all about HP it is about the chassis and the XP chassis floats better in the steep and deep than the M and the DOO track is also better in the Steep and Deep.. In a hardpacked race.. Different story.

Again, I have NO reason to lie.. I ride and own both and have products for both.. The 860 in the XP excels in the powder over the M10 (something about Power to weight ratio plays a factor also) Does the M10 (full of bolts ons) make more HP than the 860..probably a little but given the superior track and floatation of the XP and the much better power/weight ratio... the 860 makes the higher mark..


Port the M10 and lighten it up and then the M10 wins... but with the higher weight and just bolt ons.. it does not.. Again.. no reason to lie..

I actually wish it was the other way around.. but it is not.

Kaleb.. come up and ride with me anytime you like.. see for yourself..

I have ZERO brand loyalty.. But I do ride and own both...

 

[RKT]

No experience on the XP 860, only the polaris.

. On a short steep hill, the 1000 didn't have any advantage on the 860. In a long pull, the 1000 as a distinct advantage. But let's be honest, the 1000 has to be set up well. I doubt any stock 1000 will come close to an 860 XP or Dragon.

.

Good point.. And very true.. On a long hill the single rings and governed ECM controls come intoplay BIG TIME and kill power.. No doubt..

But, with once certain 860 kit.. these are no longer players.. we address this issue so the longer the pull.. the better the performance..
Stock XP.. not true... Good point

 

[backcountryislife]

I missed you lat time I was up that way, got to go ride with you this year & get my azz handed to me just to prove the point!!

 

[OuraySledder]

Oops you typed up your post in the wrong order so I went ahead and fixed it up for you. You're welcome

Thanks for the input Jayne dear...now go back to your knitting and let us big boys talk.

 

[OuraySledder]

I just don't see this match-up favoring the Doo. We ride with a guy on a stock XP 154. I have time and again outclimbed that sled on a bone stock M7. My buddies Poo 600 HO with a 30 shot outclimbs it too.

I also have trouble with the notion that the Doo has the better track, better than the Powerclaw that everybody raves about?

I think the idea that the XP floats better on the pow than an M chassis is personal opinion, and you would probably find yourself in a small minority there. 75% or better of the accounts I hear favor the M.

I know it was stock M1000 vs a modded Doo, which doesn't make much sense to start with, but in that instance, maybe the Doo does beat up on it. The wieght and power mods for the M1000 are cheap and plentiful, the Doo is heavier than anybody wants to admit, the machines are not that far apart.

Maybe it is just that i am not one of those guys who wants to have to wrench on a sled. I can, I do when it is a new mod, but I think it is hard to make a good case for a modded Doo as a reliable machine. That alone would keep me from buying one.

 

[snowmobiler]

own both stock.xp stomps the 1000 everywhere except in the sticky wet snow and on the trail

 

[OuraySledder]

own both stock.xp stomps the 1000 everywhere except in the sticky wet snow and on the trail

So what you are saying is that you don't know how to set up your M1000 properly?

 

[snowmobiler]

with the power vs weight so close im guessing maybe its because of the lighter front end or a better chassis,suspension,track for deep pow riding.

 

[tukernater]

So what you are saying is that you don't know how to set up your M1000 properly?

He's said stock, even with my grade three education i caught that

 

[Jaynelson]

Thanks for the input Jayne dear...now go back to your knitting and let us big boys talk.

Are you seriously 41? Or did your son jack your account....Ohh I think we're gettin warm there....M7 sounds like something someone's kid would inherit when daddy spent the big cake on a new M1000. Then kiddo gets bent out of shape when both are getting beat down by stock 800's....I think that's some pretty good CSI there eh? Tell me how close that is....I gotta know.

 

[OuraySledder]

....I think that's some pretty good CSI there eh? Tell me how close that is....I gotta know.

Not bad for a crackhead, but not even close in the real world... sorta like the notion that an XP is even capable enough to get into the back country, much less put the hurt on either an M7 or an M1000.

Almost nobody rides Doo's around here. I think the helicopter rides to remove that trash from the back country got too expensive. They had blown all their cash rebuilding motors every summer.

 

[Jaynelson]

Hmm more non-humourous insults.....does your dad know you're using his PC? Just stay outta the nudy picture folder or he'll be pissed!