Loss of areas

[High Velocity]

If you do not respect these closures, you could be putting the whole area at risk. The local clubs have a stewardship over thses areas and if people do not respect this the whole area could be shut down. The clubs have all worked very hard to keep a % of the areas open for us with countless hours in meetings and volunter work. So if you care about keeping the backcountry open for future use PLEASE RESPECT ALL CARIBOU CLOSURES no matter how unfair it is.

reliving, I think you misunderstood my post. I was not trying to incite a riot at this time. Rather, I was trying to say that eventually it seems, sledders will likely have no choice but to resort to measures along the lines that I stated. In a perfect world, we could come to an acceptable compromise with the government, the "shrubs and bugs" crowd, and the heli- and cat skiing industry. Unfortunately, I, personally, do not see that happening. I understand fully how hard local clubs are fighting and I applaud their efforts, however, my question to you and all sledders is this : How long do we sit back and watch our riding areas get shut down before we take the battle to the next level ????? When the next round of closures happens, or the round after that, OR when we have nowhere left to ride ? Not an easy question to answer, but I fear we will all be forced to make a decision in the next few years.

 

[stumpy2000]

what can sledders do?

i have ridden in the torpy river "snomobile area" for approx. 10 years now. the closure of this area is a great loss to everyone involved.i guess the govt. is slowly plodding along and following it's own agenda- being driven by so called professionals that have probably never spent time in this location in winter months(or even live in the interior for that matter).over the years i have seen the tracks caribou have left...roaming over and around the ridges (obviously following the flow of the land where it is easier to travel) so that they may access outcroppings of timber in the creek valleys through out the season. i personally saw a small herd of these animals "above the tree line" in late spring(@may 8 & 9/2002).the experience was quite surprising;i was stopped and sitting on a ridge waiting for my freind to join me when, roughly 12 caribou suddenly appeared out of the next bowl walking towards me. apparently they were unaware of my presence and walked to within a distance of approx. 30 M . i reached to grab my camera and snap some pics but they obviously saw the movement because they stopped dead in their tracks ,snorted,then wheeled around and trotted away...disappearing back to where they had come from. i started my machine and carefully rode to the crest of the hill where i watched the herd plod back to a stand of trees in the valley below where they proceeded to watch curiously as i was joined by the other member of my party.we skirted along the ridge of the bowl and left them to their business.several hours later on our way out we saw the tracks they had left making their way past the trail head we used to access the area and into the next valley .we looked down from the hill top and they appeared to be "settling in" for the evening amongst some scrubby trees .we turned back to the trail head and continued on our way home into the setting sun . i never did take any pics too bad...the grannola eaters might have seen how unconcerned these animals were with our so called "invasion" of their habitat.sorry this is so long- but this was probably the best sled trip i've ever had...because of the caribou sighting.

 

[Frequent Flyer]

i have ridden in the torpy river "snomobile area" for approx. 10 years now. the closure of this area is a great loss to everyone involved.i guess the govt. is slowly plodding along and following it's own agenda- being driven by so called professionals that have probably never spent time in this location in winter months(or even live in the interior for that matter).over the years i have seen the tracks caribou have left...roaming over and around the ridges (obviously following the flow of the land where it is easier to travel) so that they may access outcroppings of timber in the creek valleys through out the season. i personally saw a small herd of these animals "above the tree line" in late spring(@may 8 & 9/2002).the experience was quite surprising;i was stopped and sitting on a ridge waiting for my freind to join me when, roughly 12 caribou suddenly appeared out of the next bowl walking towards me. apparently they were unaware of my presence and walked to within a distance of approx. 30 M . i reached to grab my camera and snap some pics but they obviously saw the movement because they stopped dead in their tracks ,snorted,then wheeled around and trotted away...disappearing back to where they had come from. i started my machine and carefully rode to the crest of the hill where i watched the herd plod back to a stand of trees in the valley below where they proceeded to watch curiously as i was joined by the other member of my party.we skirted along the ridge of the bowl and left them to their business.several hours later on our way out we saw the tracks they had left making their way past the trail head we used to access the area and into the next valley .we looked down from the hill top and they appeared to be "settling in" for the evening amongst some scrubby trees .we turned back to the trail head and continued on our way home into the setting sun . i never did take any pics too bad...the grannola eaters might have seen how unconcerned these animals were with our so called "invasion" of their habitat.sorry this is so long- but this was probably the best sled trip i've ever had...because of the caribou sighting.

O.k., you did not see cariboo, and "if" you did it was in Alberta, right!

 

[kane13]

The wolves are a huge problem around Bear lk area and i imagine other areas , i think thats a big part of the declining population as well. I wonder how much thought has actually went into this i can't imagine what the bill to taxpayers of this province is going to be when all is said and done i am just lost for words on this, hope there is something we can do.

Thanks for forums like this to keep people informed on whats going on.

 

[Catmydoo]

I don't care where you live in BC this always seems to be a common fight. Our local club has done a great job keeping up with the BS and we still lose area. We have 2 gents in our club that spend so many hours every year on this, that it makes me sick just thinking about it.
We are such an easy target for these granolas, guys with jobs and with a little disposable income. It pisses me off too no end that the guy that does the caribou study in our area rides in on a sled or flies in with a chopper. If you want to study the caribou you should have to hike in from the highway and do it on your own dime not ours. Giving these losers tax money as grants for this criminal, snowmobiling isn't.

 

[team dirt]

our club in seymour arm has been working hard on this issue since the beggining as we are directly in the hub of caribou country. we have lost our riding area completley. this is not a secret area, this is where we have our warm up hut and do 90 percent of our riding. we have been keepingt track of sled numbers and last year there was only 124 sleds the whole season. there is a cat ski operation that runs in the same range that conviently is just on the boundary of the closure, it is acyually surronded with closuer between queest mountain and grace. helis are still permited to fly and land on these mountains. seems a little biased to me. why does the govenment beleive that pushing all sledders into one area is the solution. wolves are not going to follow sled tracks out of valley floors in hopes of finding a caribou in the alpine, and if they do, the caribou still have the upper hand as they will travel away from tracks and the wolves wont make it. f in ridiculous.

 

[stumpy2000]

no frequent flyer,this is a small herd that i suppose frequents the "far" torpy area that overlooks the walker forest road (the south eastern end of the upper torpy headwaters)normally i've only seen traces of them around the bottom of the second and third bowls in towards the east @ late april early may.my guess is that they stick to the valley trees and creeks until the snow pack sets up- allowing them to move about more efficiently near or above the tree line.maybe they are just getting a jump on getting away from mosquitos etc. (yes-i have seen them out in may as well). unfortunately i've been working and going to school in alberta for the past 2 years and have lost touch with the issue.the last i had heard the land issue had stalled ,apparently not.it's really depressing to find that i've been locked out of the one area that i looked forward to "coming home" to now that my brief stay in the praries is coming to an end...is there anything a person can do at this point to fight this? -or do we become lethargic and obey the rules that people in ontario and vancouver impose on the "insignificant" masses that choose to live in these areas that are remote and foreign to them? on another note:i have heard a rumor that the govt. released a small group of elk into the giscome area despite the possibility of having adverse affects on the cattle/hay farms in the area.supposedly there is photographic evidence of a cattle-liner load of the animals being released by c/o's in the area circulating around...apparently they have denied the action ever took place... but who really knows.next thing you know we"ll be encroaching on them and we'll just have to ride in video games

 

[apache]

sure sleds bother animals! and boats bother fish, and planes bother birds.
we're being fukced!

 

[flying pig]

This is getting so bad all over, if these arrogant a-holes keep getting their way I am going out in a reign of fire! In the US they aren't allowed to sell mini bikes anymore or their parts because they have lead in their construction. So if this gets brought here I will never get to teach my kids how to ride mx. IF the enviro nazis keep getting their way I will never get to show my kids the BC skyline from 9000ft. They'll never get to experience staying in a wall tent in the winter and listening to spruce trees rustling in a mountian breeze, or the comradarie of riding with the same people year after year. Just sooooo depressing.

 

[studboy]

I think fighting this is everyone's responsibility, not just the people who live in the Rockies or the snowmobile clubs, but everyone who has ever ridden there or wants to at some point. I'm not sure if there is something like the Blue Ribbon Coalition from the US here in Canada, if there is it would be nice if somebody could post the link to the site. Also make sure to phone or email your MP, Federal and Provincial. Make sure they know that there is a problem here and somebody cares. Also get everyone you know to do this as well. We don't want to end up like the Americans and lose all our land.

 

[Teth-Air]

Someone will kill wolves and breed Cariboo. Oh no what will happen when the Cariboo get over populated?

call in hunters?

 

[powder puff]

Our once a wk. paper is full of bashing us this wk., the " save the caribou guys" aren`t happy and want more area closed to snowmobilers.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/revelstoketimesreview/news/40192703.html

Poor things look scared to death don`t they. We are finding in this area the animals prefer to hang around our most snowmobiled areas. For safety or they just like us, not sure.

in this photo there were 21 of us at a popular meeting spot on top of the mtn. and if you look into the background you can see the animals laying down resting about 150 ft. from us. In both pics. we are in "open to snowmoibling areas" just for the record.

 

[paulw22]

I read this thread when it was first posted and thought Fu#k. The past couple of years I have rode north of these closures and have not seen a cariboo, in alberta I have seen a few and a couple in Tumbler. But WTF, I have seen herds and once tried to tackle one of these animals(to many ). I have gathered one thing from this, the cariboo are attracted to noise, salt and easy walking. The situation in these areas is so small it should be a non issue. How ever, when a herd of 10000 crosses a road and blocks it for a week to lick salt and enjoy the hard packed road its a problem until then, leave the snowmobilers alone, go after the salt truck and municipalities for building highways. The cariboo are looking for us, we are not looking for them. Why should we be scrutinized for our ability to get to remote locations, people are hailed as kings to climb a mountian in other countries. Fu%k the government for even looking at this, take the money and put it into the security fund for the olympic games, I think they need it.....(1 Bilion dollars WTF). Anyhow theres my input, enjoy the pics, that is a herd of cariboo who need attention, not the 100 who may or may not roam in these affected areas.

 

[stumpy2000]

just some thoughts...

everybody who has pictures that show these animals are clearly not threatened by the presence of machines/people in close proximity to them(minus the stories of trying to tackle them -not to mention drinking while operating a motor vehiclenot good publicity in the public eyes!)should forward them to the public figures and "news media" who are responsible for these closures. perhaps they will realise that the whole issue might be a little overblown by isolated incidents that have been sensationalized by the granola powered propagana machines."tree huggers" have been organised for a long time and have access to many sympathetic ears in positions of influence.on the plus side-these decision makers still have to justify their actions to the "general public".if the public begin to see sleders in a better light who knows what options for land use may be negotiated. on a side note animals using the sled tracks,roads etc. to move about when the snow is deep just makes good sense (on the part of the animals) to get around more efficiently.i don't believe wolves would intentionaly move to the high alpine (to run down animals that are genetically designed to travel across deep snow) when there is easier food and water to be found at lower elevations.if wolves are there may be bigger problems (than snowmobiles)in effect such as over population or collapse of an easier more efficient food source.animals aren't stupid like humans- they have to operate in a world where there is only so much to gain from expended effort. any "gambles" they may take for food have to pay off to survive(out in the wild animals can't just say "oops that didn't work- better run to the store for another one")

 

[duallymanca]

This story made the evening news on Global. First thing out of the lips of the greenie was "the government didn't go far enough". She also said that the snowmobilers are compacting all the lichen! wtf So for all you guys that can't avoid hitting the trees. It's all your fault
My buddy in PG moved from the Island 12 years ago because of all the land closures. Said it would never happen up there. Have not talked to him for a few days but will bet this woke him up. Won't be long before motorized vehicles are banned on Crown land unless they have permission. Sad day.

 

[somefear]

--- Send a letter to your MLA, stop fighting and you deserve to loose --

I can not understand where the "anti-snowmobile" parties in government made the leap from discussion papers and Draft snowmobile area maps, to closures? The column headed Approved Objectives/General Wildlife Measures with the documents, listed beside U-7-003 for Upper Fraser and Hart Ranges areas, which is claimed to be the authority, does not talk to anything other than tree farming and road building. How did the MoE people interrupt these documents as the signal to restrict snowmobiling? The other reports listed under U-7-003 are out of date and some of the referenced parties retired.



I understand SARCO has been absorbed by the MoE. Is that why the government people that were going to meet with our club directors decided to short circuit the process? It seems that under MoE authority the government people suddenly had free rein and took advantage of the situation and didn't need to pretend to talk to us anymore.



Despite what is going on with closures, nothing has changed. The caribou populations in our area are stable or increasing, there are no good reasons to make regulation, and wolves continue to kill the caribou. This summer signs of a large wolf pack were spotted at 42 Km on the Pass Lake Road, which is right in the middle of the Hart Range. As a result we expect significant reductions in caribou populations in the next caribou survey. Caribou populations in protected areas, like Wells Gray where snowmobiles have never been allowed, continue to plummet. But at least there are no snowmobiles, and that fact seems to be more important than anything else to the government people we deal with.



There is nothing to be gained in caribou augmentation by rushing into closures and making half the outdoor recreation population of the Prince George area mad as hell, so would you ask the Minister in charge of the MoE to direct the offending parties to suspend the snowmobile closures in our Hart Range area until they meet with us. As long as caribou populations continue to do well the use of "material adverse" under General Wildlife Measures, does not apply.



Our PG club has pointed out many times to many disinterested government people that the snowmobile community is the last best hope for the survival of the caribou by our presence in the mountains. Clearly it is in our best interest to drive the wolves out of our entire area, and not just in a few unrestricted areas. Wolves have always stayed away from snowmobiles, and with a little encouragement by government, the conditions for wolves in our caribou and snowmobile area could get a lot worse. The wolves might move right back in when snowmobiles leave the mountains in the summer, but until then the caribou would be safe.



Please talk to the Minister of the MoE on our behalf, we need someone to be reasonable about what is really going on.





Thank-you



Lee Sexsmith

Prince George Snowmobile Club

Mountain Director

Thank you, Lee for all your hard work on this issue fighting for our areas. Looks like the powers to be didn't even want to listen to our side of the story....I still can't believe that these areas are now GONE, and we weren't even allowed a voice.

 

[longtrack156]

Thank you, Lee for all your hard work on this issue fighting for our areas. Looks like the powers to be didn't even want to listen to our side of the story....I still can't believe that these areas are now GONE, and we weren't even allowed a voice.

You were allowed a voice, I heard about this a few years ago and wrote, (blasted), to the committee in charge, I knew my input would be completely disregarded. The enviro-freaks know how to manipulate the media, therefore controlling the ministers who are powerless against the media.

I too have had cariboo walk within 15' of my sled when I sat on it.

I have never seen a wild animal run from a snowmobile like the cariboo running from that helicopter on TV last night.

If I were younger I would suggest reversing the tactics upon the
enviro-freaks, tree spike their cars, chain a couple of sleds across their driveway, lie to the media, like was done on TV last night by that stupid enviro-freak.

 

[stumpy2000]

This story made the evening news on Global. First thing out of the lips of the greenie was "the government didn't go far enough". She also said that the snowmobilers are compacting all the lichen! wtf So for all you guys that can't avoid hitting the trees. It's all your fault
My buddy in PG moved from the Island 12 years ago because of all the land closures. Said it would never happen up there. Have not talked to him for a few days but will bet this woke him up. Won't be long before motorized vehicles are banned on Crown land unless they have permission. Sad day.

hittin trees? who would do such a thing? lol- from now on if i see some lichen on the trees i will do my best to avoid them .... i hope -jk.BTW-does anyone here know if averil mt. and area adjacent to the captain is part of this closure (olson, rainbow,seebach,700 road, etc)? not really tall enough to be considered high risk habitat-but as a part of the corridor? i can see that the captain area is according to the maps but i can't make out the area where averil mt. is? just seeing what's left-maybe do some stump hunting-lol

 

[somefear]

I'm not too sure about the Avril, Darby areas. I think the areas closed are above a certain elevation. The maps I've seen a VERY vague. They don't really show the whole area, and I guess we will be waiting until next season to see signs posted. Do you actually think the bean counters are going to go out in areas they have never been?? Unless they use our dime and fly in with birds. Which is very likely. I know $75,000 of our tax dollars has been set aside JUST for signage alone. I'm just sick of all this bureaucratic propaganda...us sledders targeted once again because we seem to be easy prey. They need a group to blame for the caribou plight. What about the heli-ski operations?? What about the land set aside for countless ski hills that have clearcutted the land beyond repair?? Us sledders ride on top of the snow all winter and all are left is tracks that are melted and gone in late spring. Those ski hills shut down for the winter and you're left with an ugly scar on the landscape that can't be repaired. Talk about loss of habitat!! Us sledders have to stick together....please support your local club. You can bet your bottom dollar there are people in your club fighting for the areas that you and I both ride. If we don't support them we will be left with NOTHING. So, think about that next time you think that you're saving $100 on a membership!!

 

[paulw22]

Sorry Stumpy, no motor vehicles involved, just harmless fun. I was trying to make a point. The cariboo are not very smart, they are curious, they want to see what the noise over the hill is and there is nothing we can do about it.