Let's talk octane and ethanol - snow bikes

[Misha Subo]

Wrong -- Octane will allow to run at more advanced timing.

Ethanol is but one way to get the necessary octane into Gasoline -- So is Methyl Ethyl Lead or Toluene.

At the end of the day it is simply octane that Matters!
But -- if you make 88 octane by using alcohol you have less Btu per litre or Gallon and run slightly leaner. In General that amounts to less power. Now if the RACE ECU is set up specifically for E10 it will add extra fuel to make up for E10 lower BTUs. I would suggest I can do exactly the same thing with the Yamaha tuner if I would be so inclined. I rather run good fuel and a slightly leaner more advanced ignition curve.

Fair enough...I get the importance of octane but does adding alcohol to gas also effect other issues, like causing corrosion due to its solubility in water etc. - also something to consider?

 

[powdermuncher]

Fair enough...I get the importance of octane but does adding alcohol to gas also effect other issues, like causing corrosion due to its solubility in water etc. - also something to consider?

Yes Alcohol is corrosive and dries out and corrodes fuel system components like seals o-rings Fuel-pumps etc. In General terms it Reduces fuel component life.
The big one is that it attracts water once Alcohol binds with water you get Phase separation where alcohol and water settle out in the bottom of the tank and on top you have gasoline with no Octane. Your engine will not like either one -- Poor running and or engine damage can result.

 

[Misha Subo]

Yes Alcohol is corrosive and dries out and corrodes fuel system components like seals o-rings Fuel-pumps etc. In General terms it Reduces fuel component life.
The big one is that it attracts water once Alcohol binds with water you get Phase separation where alcohol and water settle out in the bottom of the tank and on top you have gasoline with no Octane. Your engine will not like either one -- Poor running and or engine damage can result.

I was under the impression that once alcohol is added it is soluble with both the water and gas and allows the whole mess to get burnt, thus avoiding frozen water in the gas (which are not soluble together). Hence the use of alcohol as a gas de-icer?

 

[powdermuncher]

To remove water you use a very small amount to remedy a condition. E 10 is quite a different story. Like Warfarine being used as a blood thiner saving lives or in rat poison to kill rodents same stuff different use.

 

[n16ht5]

Wrong -- Octane will allow to run at more advanced timing.

Ethanol is but one way to get the necessary octane into Gasoline -- So is Methyl Ethyl Lead or Toluene.

At the end of the day it is simply octane that Matters!
But -- if you make 88 octane by using alcohol you have less Btu per litre or Gallon and run slightly leaner. In General that amounts to less power. Now if the RACE ECU is set up specifically for E10 it will add extra fuel to make up for E10 lower BTUs. I would suggest I can do exactly the same thing with the Yamaha tuner if I would be so inclined. I rather run good fuel and a slightly leaner more advanced ignition curve.

what I said is what the tech at Raze told me.

 

[Guitarman]

In the search for a bit more power I called Pro Circuit and asked them what they recommend. The tech said the KTM 450 SX-F is great in stock form. Not much to improve it. He said you could try VP 110 or T4 as they are designed for stock bikes. So I picked up 5 gallons for 100.00 bucks. Drained my Chevron 90 octane and added the T4. The bike ran for 3 seconds and died. I have a PR2 ecm and thought maybe it was causing this issue. So I put the stock ecu in and same thing. Long story short, Put my 90 back in and it fired and ran perfectly. Buyer beware.

 

[Guitarman]

VP Fuel Update

Just spoke with the fuel chemist at VP. The Chevron fuel in Alaska does not contain Ethanol. VP T4 is an Oxygenated fuel. Because of that the bike is very lean. Would need to remap my PR2 to get it to run. Not worth it. Lesson learned.