Lakota Indians just seceded from the US?

[bigdarrin]

I say let them do it. And don't come crawling back when the corruption, crime and poverty become unbearable.

bigdarrin, the only think I will say is that NONE of us had a thing to do with their treatment in the past. Yes it was a bunch of crap, but we cannot change the past, we can only live in the present.

Same thing with the slavery issue. Bill Cosby has taken a lot of heat for telling the african-americans to shape up and stop dwelling on the past and show them what your really made of.

Don't get me wrong. I completely agree that history is primarily just that, history. But, that doesn't mean that the grudges that show up here are any more valid than the "other side" complaining about how they were treated.

In the immortal words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

This is likely my last post on this topic...I'll just watch the rest of you fight it out.

D

 

[TurboGuy800]

my great great grand parents were oppressed by the government but what did they do??? they went to a different country and worked to provide for their family. hmmmm maybe all the puzzies that think the us is so horrible should pack up for a new country to call home where life would be so much better

200 years lets see howmany indians have to kill their dinner every night? how many would choose too how about none because if they wanted to they could but instead they choose to sit in a bar. the US gives them tons of oppertunity that me as a white male have never been offered (free school and housing) but they piss it away. i have had to work my arse off to get everything the government only takes from me to give to others

 

[Meatman]

That's the problem darrin, we are the majority so everyone takes things from us. If I was any kind of minority these days I wouldnt have a problem at all. It's all this PC crap thats been running wild and it has to stop. When and IF kosovo breaks away from serbia and gains independence its going to start a chain reaction for a whole bunch of provinces that want to do the same thing.

If the indians did break away and have their own country they will fall flat on their face...They can't even take care of themselves now and who do you think is gonna come to their aid and dump millions upon millions of dollars into this cess pool of drunken indians that they, themselves, have created.

I dont have a problem with mexicans or indians, i have a problem supporting them with my tax dollars that america takes outta my check every month.

 

[bigdarrin]

At least in my case it's not hate but the fact that minorities expect the majority to cowtow to their whims and wants. I go back to the Theodore Roosevelt comments. "We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.

But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn't doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people."

In the case of illegals it is just THAT ILLEGALS with indians, native americans (FYI native is defined as born there so technically most of us are native american) it is the very fact that the land was yours (even though you took it from someone else) it is now not. Sorry for "keepin' it real".

VERY GOOD Post! Excellent quote. Couldn't have said it better, not even close.

No need to apologize. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I was merely making an observation.

Dang it. I posted again. D'oh!

D

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

AND to follw up on the Theodore Roosevelt quote. It was written in a letter by then former president Roosevelt on January 3, 1919 to the president of the American Defense Society. It was read publicly at a meeting on January 5, 1919. Roosevelt died the next day, on January 6, 1919.

Teddy Roosevelt was the 26th President of the United States and the youngest to ever occupy the Oval Office. He was Vice President to President William McKinley when in 1901 McKinley was assassinated the Roosevelt took over at age 42. (At age 43 President John F. Kennedy was the youngest to ever be elected President.)

It seems that some people's wisdom only shows well after their gone.

 

[MARV1]

Hmm, should I? I should, but you will get offended if I do because some of you are so prejudiced in your upbringing that you don't even know it. And you believe that the way you were raised is right, along with what you are lead to believe in your history. All this for your greed! (I'll stop there for now)

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

This info is also from the state's website:
A long time ago, swampy ponds covered the Badlands of what is now South Dakota. American camels, small horses, and Columbian mammoths roamed these swamps. Summers were rainy and cool. Winters were mild. Just over eleven thousand years ago. A band of Paleoindian hunters killed and cut up two Columbian mammoths for food. These Clovis hunters were the first South Dakotans we know about. We know about them because of the tools and bones they left behind.

The Clovis hunters left us no written record of their lives. It was long before we humans developed writing and reading. But like many ancient peoples, they left us traces of their lives. Fragments of tools and weapons can be found. Slivers of wood or stone from their houses are buried in the ground. Bones from the animals they hunted remain behind.

Centuries and centuries passed. the swamps of South Dakota became wide, sweeping plains. Short, scrubby grass grew everywhere. Giant bison thundered across the prairies. A new people came into the area. These Folsom hunters made beautiful spear points. They picked wild onions and prairie turnips to eat. They hunted buffalo in the Black Hills. But their way of life ended. Archaeologists are not sure why. Shards of pottery, shell beads, and stone tools that have been found hint at the lifestyle of the Woodland People, the first to leave a legacy of their presence in what is now northeastern South Dakota. These early people hunted deer, antelope, bison, and other big game of the prairie. They fished the streams and picked berries along the banks. For several hundred years, beginning around 1200 AD, they occupied the region, burying their dead in broad, low mounds, but by the time the Sioux drifted into the area from Minnesota in the late 17th century, the Woodland People had disappeared-leaving only their mysterious mounds to posterity. The Sioux came to the region for two reasons. Their long-time Minnesota neighbors and enemies, the Chippewa and Cree, tilted the balance of power in their own favor when they traded with French Canadians, furs for firearms.

Unable to counter their enemies' new weapons, and always ready to move with the buffalo, the Sioux packed their travois and followed their livelihood westward.

Hmmmm the Sioux actually aren't the natives of SD?

 

[rkymtnman]

This seems to fit well here....


'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'

'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. >From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. >From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. >From courage to liberty;

4. >From liberty to abundance;

5. >From abundance to complacency;

6. >From complacency to apathy;

7. >From apathy to dependence;

8. >From dependence back into bondage'

Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

Number of States won by:
Gore: 19
Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000
Bush: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by:
Gore: 127 million
Bush: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore: 13.2
Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: 'In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare...' Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the 'complacency and apathy' phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the 'governmental dependency' phase.


Long read I realize, but think about it. Rather scary. I have many great friends who are "native american" - in fact, Lakota's - who were born, raised and still live on the reservation. They have been educated (by the US Taxpayer - good use of our money) and are working for change on these places. Tough to bring about change when most of the rest of the population has no motivation to make any changes when they get checks every month (bad use of our money) without ever having to set foot out of their "house". I applaud those working for change - this isn't the correct way to bring it about.

 

[Sled Idaho]

...

Maybe I'm wrong here, but most of you defend our "taking" of their land, but freak out when the environmental movement wants to "take" your land, but only for 1 portion of the year.

...

You are correct...I freak out big time. But the big difference here is that we took the land by force using small arms and cannons. If we were allowed to continue this practice here and there today, I guarantee there would be no greasy hippies chaining themselves to bulldozers, camping in tree-tops and holding blue grass festivals. They would know that they need to STFU and we could sled anywhere we damn well pleased.

 

[Skogen]

Do you think if we succeeded from the Union and then gave up, that we would get a cream check? ! Imagine, sledding and drinking beer on the governments dollar!

On a more serious note. Our reservation system is messed up. Like some said before, there are lots of Natives who actually DO something with their life. On and off the reservation.

From my perspective this is how I see it.
1. New trailer house outside of browning, sawzall to cut a hole in the bathroom wall so they can use the Tub as a horse trough.
2. Anybody remember what happened to all the copper plumbing in the 300 new housed they built in Browning in the 90's? Give you a hint, copper was worth the money to recycle.
3. There are still bars that a WHITE man dares not step in, example the bar at Frasier MT. Poplar, murder capital and met capital of Montana.
4. They were given some of the BEST grass country in Montana and do not a dang thing with it. Browning and the cheif mountain area has the best summer grass in Montana. Yes, I have gathered my steers out of there, under weight, with funny marks on their heads. Funny marks = the marks roping horns make. Hard to gain weight if you are roped every day during the summer in a arena.
5. My Grandparents used to own the store in Dapuyer(i spelled this wrong) MT. They had a liquor license. It was broken into twice. The till was not touched, but a few cartons of cigs were gone and a few cases of cheap whiskey. They didn’t even take the good stuff. Thunderbird anybody?

All in all, like I said, the system is messed up. Just like 90% of other government programs, they are managed poorly. It is hard to teach the appreciation and knowledge of value if it is just given to you.

As far as what happened 150 years ago. Well, lets look at history. Tribes moved, regardless if they were Native American, European, African or Asian, they moved. Because a stronger tribe pushed them out, or they wanted something a weaker tribe wanted. IE: Resources, hunting grounds ect. It was move or die. Does that make what happened to the Indians right, no, it is a lesson to be learned, and not repeated.

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

This seems to fit well here....


'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years'

'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. >From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. >From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. >From courage to liberty;

4. >From liberty to abundance;

5. >From abundance to complacency;

6. >From complacency to apathy;

7. >From apathy to dependence;

8. >From dependence back into bondage'

Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

Number of States won by:
Gore: 19
Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000
Bush: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by:
Gore: 127 million
Bush: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore: 13.2
Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: 'In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare...' Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the 'complacency and apathy' phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the 'governmental dependency' phase.


Long read I realize, but think about it. Rather scary. I have many great friends who are "native american" - in fact, Lakota's - who were born, raised and still live on the reservation. They have been educated (by the US Taxpayer - good use of our money) and are working for change on these places. Tough to bring about change when most of the rest of the population has no motivation to make any changes when they get checks every month (bad use of our money) without ever having to set foot out of their "house". I applaud those working for change - this isn't the correct way to bring it about.

It's a hoax.

 

[Meatman]

I am an american.... I will protect my country to the death..i will protect your precious right to free speech... I will protect its criminals, the welfare rats and the indians... I will not let my country go without a fight. We all know that this will never happen...but I will not change my views on illegals, whiny indians, or welfare rats... and it's not how I was raised it is what i have learned/seen/experienced.... great empires were brought to their knees because of greed...I am not greedy nor proud, I have been humbled through the trials and tribulations I have gone though. What they are trying to do is an act of treason and should be stopped NOW!

 

[switchback]

How can that even be possible? They have no infrastructure or utilitities. They would have to build power, sewer, and water facilities or purchase them from the US like other states buy power. They must be going on the assumption that casinos will provide the necessary dollars to continue to build & maintain all that they have now. That would open the door to tariffs on anything (which would be everything as they have no resources) they purchase from the US and other countries. I don't think it would take too long to squelch this little media grabbing attempt. I'd like to see their business plan.

 

[rkymtnman]

Good catch Sturgis - I didn't know that. I still think the general principle is valid. Once an individual or group becomes dependant, it is only a matter of time before their demise. Our country wasn't founded on hand-outs. You didn't like your situation, you worked your azz off to change it. YOU are in control of YOUR situation - figure out how to make it better.

EDIT - Switch - just read your post. The Lakota have wind generators and actually generate quite a bit of their own electricity (if not all) - don't know much about other infrastructure however.

 

[Fosgate]

I'm Sorry but I just gotta vent. I have known many Native Americans over the years but I had now Idea when we got on the topic of reservations that one of my Indian friends went off on a tirade about the Sioux Nation. (She's Iriqois)(spelled something like that. But anyway she's a bright gal that is a physical therapist instructor so she's no heatan off the beating path. But to see her go from the quit conservative to being that outspoken agains fellow indians confused me so I askwed why. First she had to correct me that she was Indian but not Sioux indian. Then she continued to say the legend of the sioux was that they emerged from the earth and formed 3 tribes. The Lakota, Dakota and Nakota, to make the Sioux Nation and they spread accross the plains. When in truth geologists have tracked the Sioux Nation as originating from the Georgia, Florida Area and possibly linked to the Seminol Indians. But at some point they transitioned to a nomadic tribe since they left that area. And where other indian tribes took care of the land and were at one with it. The Sioux would invaded territory and pillage the resourses of the area as it moved.

Looks more to me Russel Means is trying to pick up where he left off in the 70's before he got tossed in jail. Janklow should have never pardoned him. Been a pain in the azz ever since.

 

[LSB]

thats what I was thinking

How can that even be possible? They have no infrastructure or utilitities. They would have to build power, sewer, and water facilities or purchase them from the US like other states buy power. They must be going on the assumption that casinos will provide the necessary dollars to continue to build & maintain all that they have now. That would open the door to tariffs on anything (which would be everything as they have no resources) they purchase from the US and other countries. I don't think it would take too long to squelch this little media grabbing attempt. I'd like to see their business plan.

Ok so they have wind generators... thats good, but you need a lot more than that to operate a "country". Their plan is to not have any taxes? How do you fund your society? Socialism doesnt work without HIGH taxes sorry to tell you Russell. Since their land is inside of our country they will be needing to construct airports, more roads, public transportation, and the list goes on. What if we shut off their borders and didnt give them any funding? They wouldnt last 1 year.

I have read other articles and its good to see other Indians/Indian Nations speaking out against this idea.

 

[skidoorulz]

About the money thing, maybe the native americans are realizing that the handout is part of the problem.

Wasn't there a quote about give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he will eat forever.

Seems like the govt. is partly enabling their behavior.

Almost deep enough?

You really can't be serious can you? Indians have as many oppurtunities as anyone else and even more than a white man. They can get a college education for nothing, FREE! If they had any ambition which most of them don't. They would get the hell off the Rez and make a better life for themselves. Face it most of them are lazy and prone to alcoholism, and had the white man not come to this continent they would still be living in teepees and pooping behind a bush. Poor me because my relatives 150 years ago were almost wiped out, that makes it ok for me to be a worthless human being. And I will blame the white man

 

[TurboGuy800]

i have nothing against anyone LEAGAL immagrant or not. i dont give a sh!t if your great grand daddy dug the grand caynon himself that doent mean you can milk me for 30% of my hard earned money! but ya do. then you complain cause my great grand daddy was mean to yours in the days when anything went to get what ya wanted.

i encourage leagel imagration i support people who are TEMPORARILY in a bad stituation but screw anyone that uses my help to sit at home and drink or do drugs.

i said before i have friends and relative that are indians but they dont sit on the res and b!tch about the world they got a JOB!

 

[skidoorulz]

My wife who doesn't have a predjudice bone in her body once said, when the topic of Indians came up and how badly they have been treated since we " took their land from them " Said well they should be glad that we did not do what all the other conqurers in history did. I said what's that? And she said completely aniallate them.
I know my spelling sux.

 

[Redneck Farmer]

Let the prarie naggers secede. At least then I won't have to support their drinking habbit, or the fact that they refuse to work a regular job, or build them houses that they'll rip the fixtures out of and sell, or build them schools they'll have destroyed in less than a year, or maintain their roads with brand new equipment designed for doing 10x as much, etc.