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Kent teachers suck!

What differance does it make how old or how far through the school system I went? That has nothing to do with anything. But if you must know I am 51 and a high school graduate and my continuing education after high school has been 33 years in the school of hard knocks. Have done ok and don't owe a dime on anything I have including my house which I paid off the 30 year mortgage in 15 years, 8 years ago. And my wife and I paid for every bit of college education she took, with no help from parents or anyone else including our government. She only had one 500 dollar scholarship even though she was Validictorian at her high school. You see it seems that standouts in sports seem to get more scholarship oppurtunities than people who stand out in academics. I also beleive that sports should be cut in schools instead of teaching staff and textbooks when times are tough but no, that never seems to happen. I beleive eveyone has the right to a free public education but nobody has the right to play sports and it should not be paid for by the taxpayer. Pay for play is how a sports program in schools should be. Good enough answer for ya?


It sounds like you and your wife have done well.
I asked those two questions because if you were some snot nosed kid I wasn't going to waste my time carrying on a debate with you but that isn't the case.
I asked about your education simply to see if you attended college. Since you didn't that makes you no less intelligent than anyone else but it does remove your ability to try and deny that people don't drop out of difficult degree programs and switch to teaching degrees. I stand by my comment on that 100% as I saw it many times first hand.
As far as teacher shortages I stick by that too as I have data to back it up. More teachers graduate from colleges every year than are needed in the work force.
As far as my ditch digger comment I stick by that too. Many teachers complain that they work too hard for the pay they get. Boo friggrn hoo. Those ditch diggers out there driving a shovel make less than a teacher, most get no benefits and they don't get paid crap. I am sure you are well aware of that being in the profession that you are in. And no I am not saying you are a ditch digger. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you are a master mason?
 
Chime in time....

Soooooo, striking is ok, because...why? Oh, that's right, it's not legal, but we'll find an excuse to make it sit better. BS. What are you teaching now?

Ok, onto the bigger picture. Winter Brew has some good points, but I'll disagree with his comment about voting yes on levy's. Fact is, they're a farce. It's called living within your budget. I'll explain.

Each school district gets a certain amount of money, based on many factors, and no doubt so complicated even an educated person couldn't explain it, but I digress. States give out money based on attendance (the number of students/families in an area, or something like that). You get the point. As neighborhoods grow, there are more tax dollars collected. More kids, more money. Does it strike anyone oddly that school districts come to you, the tax payer, claiming poverty, that they need more money because the have more students...yet you know damn well they are getting more money 'cause there is more revenue coming in (BTW, economy good or bad, your property taxes, which fund the schools, stay the same. They're getting their money).

Prime example: a group of families wanted to get their students transferred from Snoqualmie school district to Lake Washington this past year, due to cutting the travel time. The answer? NO. Quote "Following the domino theory, if all Ames Lake corridor residents were to leave the district, the district would lose almost $1.3 million from its property tax base, transfer opponents calculated. That would mean an additional $170 burden on the average Valley homeowner." Now, this might be a bit too simple and practical, but if you lose the students, shouldn't the money go too? (It would, and it would go to the new district that gets the students). And again, why if you have less students would you need the same amount of money..? You wouldn't, but welcome to not living within your means and always wanting more.

My point is, there is only 'x' amount of dollars, or should be anyhow. Teachers do deserve cost of living increases. I don't have a problem with that. And there is enough in a budget for that because districts are constantly getting an increase irrelevant of the number of students because property values keep going up. Shouldn't be any problem covering that. But significant raises..? Not a chance in hell. If you don't like your job, you think there is something wrong with it?? God gave you two feet. Get off your azz and go find something else. Supply and demand will determine fair market value, NOT what you dream/think/wish/want it to be.

Next part of the problem? Typical big business and government. Top heavy. I'm not sure how to solve that (well I am, but my methods probably aren't likely to be imposed), but I sure know what NOT to do.
: give them more money. Come on, does anyone really think throwing money at a problem will solve it? Haven't we all learned yet?

But then again, what do I know...:rolleyes::face-icon-small-win:p
 
Chime in time....

Soooooo, striking is ok, because...why? Oh, that's right, it's not legal, but we'll find an excuse to make it sit better. BS. What are you teaching now?

Ok, onto the bigger picture. Winter Brew has some good points, but I'll disagree with his comment about voting yes on levy's. Fact is, they're a farce. It's called living within your budget. I'll explain.

Each school district gets a certain amount of money, based on many factors, and no doubt so complicated even an educated person couldn't explain it, but I digress. States give out money based on attendance (the number of students/families in an area, or something like that). You get the point. As neighborhoods grow, there are more tax dollars collected. More kids, more money. Does it strike anyone oddly that school districts come to you, the tax payer, claiming poverty, that they need more money because the have more students...yet you know damn well they are getting more money 'cause there is more revenue coming in (BTW, economy good or bad, your property taxes, which fund the schools, stay the same. They're getting their money).

Prime example: a group of families wanted to get their students transferred from Snoqualmie school district to Lake Washington this past year, due to cutting the travel time. The answer? NO. Quote "Following the domino theory, if all Ames Lake corridor residents were to leave the district, the district would lose almost $1.3 million from its property tax base, transfer opponents calculated. That would mean an additional $170 burden on the average Valley homeowner." Now, this might be a bit too simple and practical, but if you lose the students, shouldn't the money go too? (It would, and it would go to the new district that gets the students). And again, why if you have less students would you need the same amount of money..? You wouldn't, but welcome to not living within your means and always wanting more.

My point is, there is only 'x' amount of dollars, or should be anyhow. Teachers do deserve cost of living increases. I don't have a problem with that. And there is enough in a budget for that because districts are constantly getting an increase irrelevant of the number of students because property values keep going up. Shouldn't be any problem covering that. But significant raises..? Not a chance in hell. If you don't like your job, you think there is something wrong with it?? God gave you two feet. Get off your azz and go find something else. Supply and demand will determine fair market value, NOT what you dream/think/wish/want it to be.

Next part of the problem? Typical big business and government. Top heavy. I'm not sure how to solve that (well I am, but my methods probably aren't likely to be imposed), but I sure know what NOT to do.
: give them more money. Come on, does anyone really think throwing money at a problem will solve it? Haven't we all learned yet?

But then again, what do I know...:rolleyes::face-icon-small-win:p

yeah....what he said.....

I liked that Snoqualmie school district has been asking for levies since I moved here...I know one year they spent $25Mil on a new sport complex with top of the line football field elevated so it's not damanged by the common flooding of the snoqualmie residents. The same residents that can't use the track for excersise or anything else because it's locked up and off limits.

It goes from the smallest govt agencies like school districts all the way to the top. That's a lot of politicians that need to be replaced or given a reality check.
 
There have been some great discussions on this thread on both sides. I still think Kent teachers suck for going on strike in this economy and I will lay out a few facts that make me feel this way.


The first and most important point is, great teachers are saints and should get the money they deserve which is way more than they get. The system is broken in Washington state and around the country so those teacher who teach for the passion of improving the lives of kids and society will never get what they deserve. I have friends who are teachers, I grew up with teachers and have a huge respect for good teachers.

Here are my issues with this strike,

First, the economy. At a time when we have 18% of the people in Washington state are unemployed and almost 10% are drawing unemployment checks out of the system, teachers should be thankful for their job period. Their views are so clouded by the leftest union freaks that they have no perception of reality in this economy. Maybe they will get it when CEO s, Lawyers, CFO's DR's, VP's, business owners small and big, ect are battling for their jobs to make ends meet. I doubt it.

Second, The statement that "this strike is not about money it's about class size" is total and complete bull $hit.

Why doesnt someone tell me why they don't take the 8.5 million dollar raise that they offered the teachers and use it to reduce class size by 4 to 5 kids? per class? If it's all about class size.. And BTW, they were also offered help in all over sized class K through 6th grade already.

Here's another question that you will not be able to answer, how can a teacher, with a clear conscious ask for a raise in a school district that just eliminated ALL after school transportation for ALL sports and activities? Do they not realize how many kids are dependant on these services that can't afford to play sports and other activities without transportation. There have been more studies on the impact of extra curricular activities than you can believe and it is proven to change the lives of millions of kids. "It's all about the kids" LMAO!! If it was about the kids then teachers would be asking for these services back before they selfishly ask for more money!!

Where were the teachers when Kent was about to eliminate all non profiting sports and activities? Where were all of the picketers for "the kids" then? You know who took care of this problem? The parents!

My kids keep asking, how can the teachers strike when it's illegal? Answer please? The answer is that teachers and the union don't respect the law and authority. Great example guys..... "It's all about the kids".

The other thing that I find very annoying is when people say that teachers have to pay all that money for school, deal with troubled kids, bad parents and low pay. DUH, that's what you signed up for when you decided to go that route to get all of the time off, great benefits and amazing job security. Not to mention the easy degree to get there. Know one ever glamorized teaching, not ever! They all know what they are getting in to going in to that line of work.

Big Truck said "how would you like to spend all of that money on school for teacher pay"? My answer is I would love it! Why does everyone think that teachers are the only ones under payed coming out of collage?

I spent between $70 and $80 thousand for a 2 year degree in aviation technology and my commercial instrument, multi engine flight instructor ratings. Then I "taught" flying and ground school for about 2 and a half years for around 15g's a year to build enough hours to get on with a small commuter airlines. My big day came, I got hired and asked to go to ground school for the grand total of $1800 a month and I had to move to BFE. I quit flying on the spot because I didn't like the program. Boy was my 747-400 captain proud.

The average teacher pay in Washington State is $45,500 and the average age of a teacher is 31. Not too bad in my opinion. Awesome benefits, tons of time off, amazing job security, 401k and a pension, how many of you have a pension? How many teachers are loosing their house right now?

My point is, we all go through the school of hard knocks and if you don't like your pay for what you are doing then get a new job and quit whining. I sell commercial flooring, oh boy, super exciting. You gotta do what you gotta do to make ends meet and 90% of the guys I graduated from flight school had to make career changes or several career changes.

As far as my statement that anyone can teach grade school, I know that's not totally true but if you have a degree in teaching, you better be able to handle K through 6th grade or you picked the wrong career. You can't take away recess in high school and Jr high. As far as volunteering at the school, my wife has been doing that for 15 years and will continue to volunteer because we know teachers need help and we want to set an example to our kids that we support their education and volunteerism. As far as levies go, it's over and we will never vote yes again.

To those teachers who are dedicated to our children, thanks again.

Kent teachers, GET TO WORK! Peace - Eric
 
There have been some great discussions on this thread on both sides. I still think Kent teachers suck for going on strike in this economy and I will lay out a few facts that make me feel this way.


The first and most important point is, great teachers are saints and should get the money they deserve which is way more than they get. The system is broken in Washington state and around the country so those teacher who teach for the passion of improving the lives of kids and society will never get what they deserve. I have friends who are teachers, I grew up with teachers and have a huge respect for good teachers.

Here are my issues with this strike,

First, the economy. At a time when we have 18% of the people in Washington state are unemployed and almost 10% are drawing unemployment checks out of the system, teachers should be thankful for their job period. Their views are so clouded by the leftest union freaks that they have no perception of reality in this economy. Maybe they will get it when CEO s, Lawyers, CFO's DR's, VP's, business owners small and big, ect are battling for their jobs to make ends meet. I doubt it.

Second, The statement that "this strike is not about money it's about class size" is total and complete bull $hit.

Why doesnt someone tell me why they don't take the 8.5 million dollar raise that they offered the teachers and use it to reduce class size by 4 to 5 kids? per class? If it's all about class size.. And BTW, they were also offered help in all over sized class K through 6th grade already.

Here's another question that you will not be able to answer, how can a teacher, with a clear conscious ask for a raise in a school district that just eliminated ALL after school transportation for ALL sports and activities? Do they not realize how many kids are dependant on these services that can't afford to play sports and other activities without transportation. There have been more studies on the impact of extra curricular activities than you can believe and it is proven to change the lives of millions of kids. "It's all about the kids" LMAO!! If it was about the kids then teachers would be asking for these services back before they selfishly ask for more money!!

Where were the teachers when Kent was about to eliminate all non profiting sports and activities? Where were all of the picketers for "the kids" then? You know who took care of this problem? The parents!

My kids keep asking, how can the teachers strike when it's illegal? Answer please? The answer is that teachers and the union don't respect the law and authority. Great example guys..... "It's all about the kids".

The other thing that I find very annoying is when people say that teachers have to pay all that money for school, deal with troubled kids, bad parents and low pay. DUH, that's what you signed up for when you decided to go that route to get all of the time off, great benefits and amazing job security. Not to mention the easy degree to get there. Know one ever glamorized teaching, not ever! They all know what they are getting in to going in to that line of work.

Big Truck said "how would you like to spend all of that money on school for teacher pay"? My answer is I would love it! Why does everyone think that teachers are the only ones under payed coming out of collage?

I spent between $70 and $80 thousand for a 2 year degree in aviation technology and my commercial instrument, multi engine flight instructor ratings. Then I "taught" flying and ground school for about 2 and a half years for around 15g's a year to build enough hours to get on with a small commuter airlines. My big day came, I got hired and asked to go to ground school for the grand total of $1800 a month and I had to move to BFE. I quit flying on the spot because I didn't like the program. Boy was my 747-400 captain proud.

The average teacher pay in Washington State is $45,500 and the average age of a teacher is 31. Not too bad in my opinion. Awesome benefits, tons of time off, amazing job security, 401k and a pension, how many of you have a pension? How many teachers are loosing their house right now?

My point is, we all go through the school of hard knocks and if you don't like your pay for what you are doing then get a new job and quit whining. I sell commercial flooring, oh boy, super exciting. You gotta do what you gotta do to make ends meet and 90% of the guys I graduated from flight school had to make career changes or several career changes.

As far as my statement that anyone can teach grade school, I know that's not totally true but if you have a degree in teaching, you better be able to handle K through 6th grade or you picked the wrong career. You can't take away recess in high school and Jr high. As far as volunteering at the school, my wife has been doing that for 15 years and will continue to volunteer because we know teachers need help and we want to set an example to our kids that we support their education and volunteerism. As far as levies go, it's over and we will never vote yes again.

To those teachers who are dedicated to our children, thanks again.

Kent teachers, GET TO WORK! Peace - Eric


Well put Eric!!!!!!!!!!
 
Great teachers....teaching what now..? Oh yea, that rule of law means nothing.

Refusing a lawful order to return to work.

Fire 'em all. Got Air Traffic Controller scenerio? That worked out pretty good.
 
Great teachers....teaching what now..? Oh yea, that rule of law means nothing.

Refusing a lawful order to return to work.

Fire 'em all. Got Air Traffic Controller scenerio? That worked out pretty good.

They're such a great example for our kids. Teaching them how to snub their noses at the law, who gets away with that other than the poor little teachers?? They work so hard for our kids.. It's all about class size... More like a$$ size!!!

How can anyone defend this behavior?

I know, maybe I'm wrong and it's time to fight authority! So I guess I can teach my kids to snub their noses at the wilderness signs too right? I don't believe they can regulate me and my kids out of our land so we will be the family that fights for future kids rights through our civil disobedience of wilderness areas. MLKJ all the way... All for the future of our kids.... It's about riding area size. Fugtards!

Kent teachers, YOU SUCK! Get to work NOW!!!! Strike in this economy??? Whatever...
 
They're such a great example for our kids. Teaching them how to snub their noses at the law, who gets away with that other than the poor little teachers?? They work so hard for our kids.. It's all about class size... More like a$$ size!!!

How can anyone defend this behavior?

I know, maybe I'm wrong and it's time to fight authority! So I guess I can teach my kids to snub their noses at the wilderness signs too right? I don't believe they can regulate me and my kids out of our land so we will be the family that fights for future kids rights through our civil disobedience of wilderness areas. MLKJ all the way... All for the future of our kids.... It's about riding area size. Fugtards!

Kent teachers, YOU SUCK! Get to work NOW!!!! Strike in this economy??? Whatever...

Most everyone here teaches their own kids to snub their nose at the law. Who hasn't driven over the speed limit with their kids in the car? Or rolled through a stop sign? Or turned without using a turn signal? I can go on and on and on but won't. Obviously some judge in WA ordered the teachers back to work and the teachers are still refusing. Am I right? I do not know how it is in WA, but in MT. The only unionized public servants that cannot strike by law are Police officers, because of public safety concerns. The Fire Dept can even walk, go figure. So with that said, if the teachers are breaking a state law then no I do not side with them on that. But if it is not against state law and a Judge ordered them back even though it is not illegal to strike then I am with them 100%. And no I am not a member of any ubion and do not beleive in unions, but do beleive you have the right to be union if you want to . Sure makes for some interesting conversations around my house at times.
 
Most everyone here teaches their own kids to snub their nose at the law. Who hasn't driven over the speed limit with their kids in the car? Or rolled through a stop sign? Or turned without using a turn signal? I can go on and on and on but won't. Obviously some judge in WA ordered the teachers back to work and the teachers are still refusing. Am I right? I do not know how it is in WA, but in MT. The only unionized public servants that cannot strike by law are Police officers, because of public safety concerns. The Fire Dept can even walk, go figure. So with that said, if the teachers are breaking a state law then no I do not side with them on that. But if it is not against state law and a Judge ordered them back even though it is not illegal to strike then I am with them 100%. And no I am not a member of any ubion and do not beleive in unions, but do beleive you have the right to be union if you want to . Sure makes for some interesting conversations around my house at times.

Yes, we have a state law against it and the judge just upheld it. No public employee in WA can strike including fire dept. They are disobeying the law and a court order.

I do hear you on the example thing but I think this is different than going 56 in a 55. Eric
 
Great teachers....teaching what now..? Oh yea, that rule of law means nothing.

Refusing a lawful order to return to work.

Fire 'em all. Got Air Traffic Controller scenerio? That worked out pretty good.

I was one of those ATC guys.. after a few years I was offered my job back..
I really dont know or care enough about the issues of the teachers.
I hear that kent schools are the lowest paid in the area???
should a teacher in snoqualmie make more than a teacher in Kent??
I thought it was a state system??
 
Has anyone heard what law is being violated or HOW/WHY the judge ordered them back to work?? There are teacher strikes all over the state every year, and I have never heard of them being called "illegal". The ONLY bargaining chip a Union has is their right to strike (and that is legal in Wa.).....take that away and there is no need for the Union.
I'm sure if the law was clear then the Union would recomend the members to go back to work, the last thing they (the union) needs is to be accused of asking it's members (especially teachers) to break the law. Not a good example!!
 
And you know about this problem from a personal experience????? LoL:beer;:beer;:beer;

Hel!l you cant even spell exercise!!!!! LMAO.....

LOL....yeah, I was going to work out so I could stick with you guys on a full day trail ride...but now I just have to drink beer with Moon and watch video's....as for the spelling error...I'm having a terrible time with my one finger typing style..I think it's my eyes, I can't see my way to care much about it after I hit the send button.
 
Has anyone heard what law is being violated or HOW/WHY the judge ordered them back to work?? There are teacher strikes all over the state every year, and I have never heard of them being called "illegal". The ONLY bargaining chip a Union has is their right to strike (and that is legal in Wa.).....take that away and there is no need for the Union.
I'm sure if the law was clear then the Union would recomend the members to go back to work, the last thing they (the union) needs is to be accused of asking it's members (especially teachers) to break the law. Not a good example!!

WB - You make a good point, thanks. I am certain that some public employees are not allowed to strike. Police and Fire for sure. Fairly certain the same law includes teachers. Since no right to strike, they do have other avenues to pursue - like a mediator and then "Binding Arbitration".....It's the law and it works for Police/Fire. When's the last time we've heard of a Police or Fire Department going on Strike?

Teachers know this when they take the job. They bought into the program, need to follow the law, go teach and let the Arbitrator determine class size and just say Thank You..... Just one other humble viewpoint.....
 
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WB - You make a good point. I am certain that some public employees are not allowed to strike. Police and Fire for sure. Fairly certain the same law includes teachers. Since no right to strike, they do have other avenues to pursue - like a mediator and then "Binding Arbitration".....It's the law and it works for Police/Fire. When's the last time we've heard of a Police or Fire Department going on Strike?

Teachers know this when they take the job. They bought into the program, need to follow the law, go teach and let the Arbitrator determine class size.....Right Eric???? Just one other humble viewpoint.....

Yah there's a law, I will look it up later. The problem is there is no penalty and no public employee has ever been punished if I remember right.

I'll look it up and post it later but I read it earlier today. I think the freedom foundation has the info on their site. Eric
 
How are all the other teacher strikes in Wa. not illegal? There have been some long ones.
I found this http://www.effwa.org/main/article.php?article_id=49

So...if it is ilegal for teachers to strike? How/why do they have organized votes TO strike?? I don't expect an answer, it's one of those things that makes no sense whatsoever! I belong to a Union...I wish I didn't at times....but without the ability to strike you have ZERO leverage and no need for the Union. WTF? Unbelievable :beer;:confused::beer;
 
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I don't belong to a union because I run my own business. They way I leverage a better contract is to do a better job than the next guy so I don't get fired. So I'm sorry if I don't quite approve of many strikes.
 
solution

fire them all and hire people that want to work.im all for unions dont get me wrong here but all they do anymore is save the weak.i didnt mean this to start a pissn match
 
RCW 41.56.120

Right to strike not granted.


</B>Nothing contained in this chapter shall permit or grant any public employee the right to strike or refuse to perform his official duties.
 
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