Introducing - [ IceAge Pro-Motion ] - Pivoting Suspension Upgrade

[OuraySledder]

I think it is a mistake to attribute all of the XMs improvement over the XP to the T-Motion. I have ridden the XP, the XM and an XP with T-motion and a flex track. They ALL handle terrible compared to the Pro. I think the narrow front end on the XM probably contributes the most towards allowing it to lay over. I rode the XM in spring snow all day. STILL doesn't sidehill like a Pro and not nearly as good as an old M-Cat even.

The whole tilting skid seems very conterproductive to me. When I want to carve or sidehill I do not want the skid leaning the other way sliding off the intended line, I want the skid rigid and cutting that intended line.

It will be interesting to see how you guys like it but, my experience is that T-Motion is a bad gimmick and I would never intentionally ad motion to the skid. Compounding my concerns is that now you are expecting the rails to twist for this to work? That seems like a vey bad idea as I do not think aluminum likes to twist back and forth very many times before it fails. It will probably increase aftermarket sales of replacement rails though..

 

[Scott]

I'm just wondering out loud here (because I don't have the benefit of CAD engineering and science fiction cameras that can see through the snow to capture the sled chassis at work and ignore all the powder in it's way)

....but with the MORE rider forward position of the XP (and perceived heavier ski pressure), would it benefit more from a pivoting suspension than a rider neutral ProRMK or ProClimb (with perceived lighter ski pressure)?

Think of it when a sled is ski pressure heavy it is more work to carve it over than a sled that is ski pressure light.

When the t-motioin chassis pivots, the track would be a somewhat more "flat" to the snow surface and not on edge while the skis and rest of sled gets some carve angle.

The ski heavy sled would carve a bit easier if the skid pivoted.

The ski light sled wouldn't need that "assistance" to carve the skis and chassis..AND would it be counter productive for a pivoting skid in a rider-neutral chassis? Would it be less apt to "carve" and more apt to slide as it's slightly more "flat".

Remember how we used to do doughnuts on our steel tracked sleds in the 70s and 80s without either ski leaving the ground?

Picture all of this happening in a flat meadow.
NOW think of my scenarios on a sidehill? Hmmmm.

Discuss.....

 

[IceAge Performance]

Mike, did you do any testing with Camo 2.5 or 3 inch tracks or just stock track?

And will the Silver color of the white '13 LE's be an option?

We ran it on both our turbo unit with 156 3" and our stock 155 pro. With the ski's sky hi on the turbo you can steer with your feet more then normal. Pretty cool sensation.

A bunch of valid concerns, and why we ran a bunch of different tests, AND worked with our background in the suspension/rail world to bring you this. Rails/suspensions deflect tremendously when out riding. A lot more then most would imagine. On 155+ length tracks, the level of twist in the rails is not to be concerning with affecting the material. We know how much they can take, thats what we do. For a good example, look at ski-doo. They do not have long term failure issues showing up even after 2 seasons.

Even though our analysis told us everything was good, we wanted to see first hand. We ran our stock pro with a prototype setup that had ABSOLUTELY NO restriction on movement. It relied purely on the resistance of the suspension/track/rails/ etc to keep it from bending over. We put a few hundred of the hardest miles we could on the sled and had not one single broken or bent part. We jumped it, raced it across whooped out trails, and side hilled crunch spring garbage. The production version with only 3* per side puts minuscule strain on things compared to what that did.

On the note of twisting rear and not the front. From the rear to the front you have 3 "fixed" junctions. The rear shock/linkage mount, front shock/linkage and the mount to the FTA shaft. In the oem skid, after even a few miles these break in and have more then 1* of deflection. This means the skid is already able to flex this far without bending anything. When the skid is sitting out of the sled, It will easily move from side to side. No deflecting of mounts etc.

It is also a bad idea to compare how this handles to an XM. Similar concept, but such different sleds. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Some people just cannot ride the XM.

 

[ullose272]

has this been tested with a 36" front end?

 

[IceAge Performance]

has this been tested with a 36" front end?

Our turbo pro has the 36" zbroz setup. That sled setup is getting pretty close to as easy as a snowbike to sidehill.

 

[sledneck_03]

Our turbo pro has the 36" zbroz setup. That sled setup is getting pretty close to as easy as a snowbike to sidehill.

not to get into a pissing match but, what do you think of the ez ryde 20 degrees vs your 6 degrees? I know that your product is an addition to a stock skid and theirs is a full skid but you said your prototypes flexed more. did you limit it to 6 degrees to keep the skid in check and would have went more if you could have done so?

 

[IceAge Performance]

not to get into a pissing match but, what do you think of the ez ryde 20 degrees vs your 6 degrees? I know that your product is an addition to a stock skid and theirs is a full skid but you said your prototypes flexed more. did you limit it to 6 degrees to keep the skid in check and would have went more if you could have done so?

The ez ryde setup is pretty trick. We unfortunately weren't able to get any miles on one last season, but are hoping to as soon as the snow flies. Their setup (mono arm) is setup perfectly for pivoting, especially at the higher angle levels. We worked with what the OEM skid would allow us without fatigue issues and quit while we were ahead. We do have some more ideas for things we want to test as the snow flies.

You really couldn't tell a huge differce in sensation of how our 3* vs the unrestrained version worked. It would rarely bend a lot farther as the skid doesn't want to bend that far with only the back arm flexing.


Also, if you have questions feel free to call us, it is very hard to keep up with every single question on the forums. As the season ramps up we will be able to check this less and less.

 

[glassman]

I didnt realize there were actually people who couldnt get a Pro to sidehill? Cool product for sure, but not really needed on this chassis IMO.

 

[Hawkster]

I didnt realize there were actually people who couldnt get a Pro to sidehill? Cool product for sure, but not really needed on this chassis IMO.

I'm one of those guys , usually end up getting drug or tossed . It's a step in a good direction since the majority are afraid of falling over

 

[FC61]

I can see in the future this being coupled with a split front arm that has some sort of flex joint at the mounting points along with a flex mount at the lower or upper shock mounts. it can still be limited to a certain degree of motion and get rid of the twisting forces transmitted to the tunnel and rails.

 

[byeatts]

The ez ryde setup is pretty trick. We unfortunately weren't able to get any miles on one last season, but are hoping to as soon as the snow flies. Their setup (mono arm) is setup perfectly for pivoting, especially at the higher angle levels. We worked with what the OEM skid would allow us without fatigue issues and quit while we were ahead. We do have some more ideas for things we want to test as the snow flies.

You really couldn't tell a huge differce in sensation of how our 3* vs the unrestrained version worked. It would rarely bend a lot farther as the skid doesn't want to bend that far with only the back arm flexing.


Also, if you have questions feel free to call us, it is very hard to keep up with every single question on the forums. As the season ramps up we will be able to check this less and less.

I may have missed it , Does the front arm get cut /altered in the center to allow it to move?

 

[mountainhorse]

Byeatts see the thread on the EZ-RYDE in the "General" section.


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