Instructions for replacing faulty bearing on diamond drive?
- Thread starter Dogmeat
- Start date
On the 10's the general recommendation is to machine the end/s of the trackshaft. Some guys prefer to remove and equal amount from both ends to keep it centered.
BDX told me the DD end is easier cause it doesn't have to be perfect.
I didn't do mine. I installed another 6203 for now and plan to replace it again after the season. By then maybe there will be a definite/easier fix such as maybe someone will come up with a spacer for the brake side.
At least one person used washers to shim out the brake side after installing a 5203 in his 2010. Said it seems to work great.
BDX told me the DD end is easier cause it doesn't have to be perfect.
I didn't do mine. I installed another 6203 for now and plan to replace it again after the season. By then maybe there will be a definite/easier fix such as maybe someone will come up with a spacer for the brake side.
At least one person used washers to shim out the brake side after installing a 5203 in his 2010. Said it seems to work great.
Not generally that I know of. It may be possible, I'm not sure. There is a shim washer in that spot so I don't how much space that leaves, plus the gearshaft material, I've heard, is super hard and not all machine shops can handle that.
I believe the most common point to machine off is the DD end of the track shaft, and some people are doing both ends of that shaft to keep equal spacing of the drivers.
I believe the most common point to machine off is the DD end of the track shaft, and some people are doing both ends of that shaft to keep equal spacing of the drivers.
Maybe
phatboy---From what I understand I believe you are correct if your looking at a 2010 and going with the 5203. Also I'm not sure if the track drive shaft still needs .050" removed off the end or not.
I'm still a little confused on the 2010's exactly what the correct procedure is so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong or put it all in a nut shell for us!
Thanks
phatboy---From what I understand I believe you are correct if your looking at a 2010 and going with the 5203. Also I'm not sure if the track drive shaft still needs .050" removed off the end or not.
I'm still a little confused on the 2010's exactly what the correct procedure is so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong or put it all in a nut shell for us!
Thanks
I spoke with BDX yesterday and they told me I could have installed a 5203 in my 2010 without machining anything. They said the bearing was strong enough to withstand the additional side loading. They said to install the 5203 you need to remove the bolt from the brake side (long extension thru shaft using 16mm socket) as that bolt holds the drive shaft to the DD (ring gear?)).
(I had just installed a 6203-2rsh a few days ago because I didn't want to machine anything)
I too am still a little confused as to what is the correct thing to do.
I believe, and I could be wrong, but I believe you may have to make sure the 2010 bearing is not flush with the end of the shaft. Mine had about 1-1.5mm shaft exposed. Someone else said that allows it to sit deeper/proper in the DD so there is no misalignment of gears.
(I had just installed a 6203-2rsh a few days ago because I didn't want to machine anything)
I too am still a little confused as to what is the correct thing to do.
I believe, and I could be wrong, but I believe you may have to make sure the 2010 bearing is not flush with the end of the shaft. Mine had about 1-1.5mm shaft exposed. Someone else said that allows it to sit deeper/proper in the DD so there is no misalignment of gears.
N
newtrout
Well-known member
In a nutshell:
For the 2010, the 4203 is a direct replacement double row bearing for the stock single row bearing and spacer. The 4203 bearings that are available are deep groove bearings, not angular contact. An angular contact bearing should handle side load better, but in my opinion the 4203 is still much better than stock.
The 5203 double row bearing is an angular contact, but it is slightly wider than the stock bearing and spacer on a 2010(for a 2009 it is a direct replacement). There should be a 1.5 mm of shaft protruding from the end of the bearing when pressed on. If you machine or grind a small amount (1.5 mm) on the shaft (where shown in the picture a few posts above), the 5203 can be made to fit as the stock bearing on a 2010.
For the 2010, the 4203 is a direct replacement double row bearing for the stock single row bearing and spacer. The 4203 bearings that are available are deep groove bearings, not angular contact. An angular contact bearing should handle side load better, but in my opinion the 4203 is still much better than stock.
The 5203 double row bearing is an angular contact, but it is slightly wider than the stock bearing and spacer on a 2010(for a 2009 it is a direct replacement). There should be a 1.5 mm of shaft protruding from the end of the bearing when pressed on. If you machine or grind a small amount (1.5 mm) on the shaft (where shown in the picture a few posts above), the 5203 can be made to fit as the stock bearing on a 2010.
M
mhanson
Active member
That is the easy fix. Put a washer behind the caliper and you are doing the same as shortening the track shaft.
You guys machining the transfer gear aren't understanding the whole concept. Neither is BDX by telling you this will fix it all.
You have to take the whole dd out of the chassis. If the cover doesn't fit right then machine the transfer gear. if the cover fits right then procede.
There IS NO YEAR BREAK THAT FITS/DOESN'T FIT. It depends on the individual parts.
Once the cover fits right, then put the dd in the chassis. at this point i would do it with the cover off. If the ring gear is pushing out against the planetary's when you snug the dd to the chassis, the trackshaft needs to be trimmed.
Its common sense, there is no one fix for every sled. Find out what is binding and fix it.
After Coldfingers advice 
I called Black Diamond and they said to send in the 2010 DD and the trackshaft. I cracked the case before shipping to see how the bearing looked and it appeared ok after 700 miles.
BD pressed in the 5203 bearing, threw on a new gasket and machined down the flange a little on the brake side of the trackshaft. Total labor cost $40.
What it boils down to is if the trackshaft is too long it puts pressure on the bearing. But, if the track shaft is a little short when the bolt from the trackshaft to the DD is tightened it can safely pull then together with a little bulkhead flex. Better to be on the safer side of a little too short than being too long. IMO
Mhansens post sounds correct to me except the brake shimming. I don't see how shimming the brake is going to actually shorten the trackshaft length distance from the trackshaft flange (which is flush against the inside of the bulkhead on the brake side) across to the dd? Machining down the flange or the dd end of the trackshaft is the only way to shorten it.
I had already sent mine in before the post so I didn't check the case fit.
Now I just have to put it all back in and we'll see if it holds up.
I called Black Diamond and they said to send in the 2010 DD and the trackshaft. I cracked the case before shipping to see how the bearing looked and it appeared ok after 700 miles.BD pressed in the 5203 bearing, threw on a new gasket and machined down the flange a little on the brake side of the trackshaft. Total labor cost $40.
What it boils down to is if the trackshaft is too long it puts pressure on the bearing. But, if the track shaft is a little short when the bolt from the trackshaft to the DD is tightened it can safely pull then together with a little bulkhead flex. Better to be on the safer side of a little too short than being too long. IMO
Mhansens post sounds correct to me except the brake shimming. I don't see how shimming the brake is going to actually shorten the trackshaft length distance from the trackshaft flange (which is flush against the inside of the bulkhead on the brake side) across to the dd? Machining down the flange or the dd end of the trackshaft is the only way to shorten it.
I had already sent mine in before the post so I didn't check the case fit.
Now I just have to put it all back in and we'll see if it holds up.
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my 08 DD started leaking oil after 1000 km's . found the output bearing to be pitted out. cousing the shaft to slop around i changed the bearring out with a high speed timken. and havent had an issue with it so far.
prety sad when you buy a brand new machine and you cant even get 1000 km out of it with out issues.
prety sad when you buy a brand new machine and you cant even get 1000 km out of it with out issues.
Reverse Lever
"Did you ever come back with a reply if the reverse lever was made or bought and where can you get these."
No, I don't think the 08's had the issue, but while you are in there, why not!
I took the dd apart 2x, inspected it, and cleaned it. Put new lube in and bolted it back in. The first year the original fluid was pretty dark, and the second year I was amazed, it looked almost like new gear lube
I think it had something to do with getting rid of the reverse actuator and putting on the lever... very little chance of ever not getting it into reverse all the way with that mod
"Did you ever come back with a reply if the reverse lever was made or bought and where can you get these."
As someone asked earlier, has anyone checked the(ir) 2011?
Same bearing? Same issue?
Seems like something Cat really needs to know about..
Same bearing? Same issue?
Seems like something Cat really needs to know about..
I have a 2010 M8 with 1,250 miles and pull my DD Drive today. Just some rambling thoughts:
1) Many thanks to MM 700 for explaining how to pull the DD, couldn't have done it w/o you.
2) Just to clarify, the 16 mm bolt is accessed thru the "Drive Shaft", not the Jack Shaft..- Had me scratching my head there.
3) My DD didn't just pull out - It helped to put the 16 mm bolt in a few threads and wack on the extension and drive it out.
4) My oil and Bearing were in perfect shape, meaning I probably don't have the "narrow tunnel" condition". I ordered up the BDX 5203 bearing anyhow.
5) The old bearing and spacer will let the new wider 5203 sit exactly where the old bearing was.
6) So why machine the shaft? I dont' think there is a need unless you have the "narrow tunnel"?
7) Some say shim out the brake caliper - Would the same be accomplished if you shimmed out the DD case? Dunno, I'm asking.
8) For me, I'll put it together carefully with the new 5203 bearing....Will not machine down anything unless I see a clearance issue or "binding"....
Will report back soon........See you on the Hill
1) Many thanks to MM 700 for explaining how to pull the DD, couldn't have done it w/o you.
2) Just to clarify, the 16 mm bolt is accessed thru the "Drive Shaft", not the Jack Shaft..- Had me scratching my head there.
3) My DD didn't just pull out - It helped to put the 16 mm bolt in a few threads and wack on the extension and drive it out.
4) My oil and Bearing were in perfect shape, meaning I probably don't have the "narrow tunnel" condition". I ordered up the BDX 5203 bearing anyhow.
5) The old bearing and spacer will let the new wider 5203 sit exactly where the old bearing was.
6) So why machine the shaft? I dont' think there is a need unless you have the "narrow tunnel"?
7) Some say shim out the brake caliper - Would the same be accomplished if you shimmed out the DD case? Dunno, I'm asking.
8) For me, I'll put it together carefully with the new 5203 bearing....Will not machine down anything unless I see a clearance issue or "binding"....
Will report back soon........See you on the Hill
You are right on track........the reason to machine the shaft that the new wide bearing is going onto is that the 5203 bearing tends to be in the neighborhood of 0.050" wider than the combined height of the stock bearing and spacer. 0.050" thousandths of an inch does not seem like much but it's almost 1/16" and as you tighten your case cover back up it will be putting some preload on that new wide bearing that you installed. Is it that big of a deal? Probably not but that is the reason behind machining the shoulder on the transfer-gear shaft so that the new wide bearing sits in the same location in relationship to the end of the shaft as the stock bearing and spacer did. Just trying to explain why some of us did this.
Hope everyone's pre-season maintence is going well. I am in the middle of installing a wide bearing on another 2010 M8 and getting sleds ready for the upcoming winter. Very excited............I hope everyone else is as well!!!!!
Take Care,
Dave
T
TalkAK
Well-known member
4203 vs 5203
There continues to be some confusion about the 4203 on a 2010M. I have tried it, it works great, for awhile. It is double row bearing but does not have the side load capabilities of the 5203. My 4203 lasted a few hundred miles before it started going. I to do not live next to a machine shop, I dropped in a 6203 and went riding. Ordered a 5203 and will put it in before I ride this year, after I get the shoulder machined down the difference. So in a nut shell, the 6203 is a single row angular contact bearing, the 5203 is a "double row" angular contact bearing, the 4203 is a plain double row bearing. The 5203 is a better bearing for the application.
Thinking Snow!!!
There continues to be some confusion about the 4203 on a 2010M. I have tried it, it works great, for awhile. It is double row bearing but does not have the side load capabilities of the 5203. My 4203 lasted a few hundred miles before it started going. I to do not live next to a machine shop, I dropped in a 6203 and went riding. Ordered a 5203 and will put it in before I ride this year, after I get the shoulder machined down the difference. So in a nut shell, the 6203 is a single row angular contact bearing, the 5203 is a "double row" angular contact bearing, the 4203 is a plain double row bearing. The 5203 is a better bearing for the application.
Thinking Snow!!!
Thanks for the 4203 feedback. I was considering one of those for mine.
I did the same last year, installed a 6203 for now and will inspect after 500 miles or so.
I'm still wondering about the lubrication issue and would like to hear feedback from those that installed a 6203 without the seals. Seems like total failures of the 6203 are few (any at all?). On mine the lefthand seal was out and the bearing cage was screwed, allowing a few bearings to "free float" in the groove, but I'm wondering if the additional dd lube now getting to the bearing was keeping it alive.??
I'm not thrilled about the machining of the shaft, and it seems that the general recommendation is remove the dd, install a 5203, put the cover back on and put the dd back in the sled without machining.
I assume the 5203 is durable enough to handle any additional side loading but I'm wary of the strength of the case cover to hold it all in place but I guess there haven't been any failures of the cover.???
I did the same last year, installed a 6203 for now and will inspect after 500 miles or so.
I'm still wondering about the lubrication issue and would like to hear feedback from those that installed a 6203 without the seals. Seems like total failures of the 6203 are few (any at all?). On mine the lefthand seal was out and the bearing cage was screwed, allowing a few bearings to "free float" in the groove, but I'm wondering if the additional dd lube now getting to the bearing was keeping it alive.??
I'm not thrilled about the machining of the shaft, and it seems that the general recommendation is remove the dd, install a 5203, put the cover back on and put the dd back in the sled without machining.
I assume the 5203 is durable enough to handle any additional side loading but I'm wary of the strength of the case cover to hold it all in place but I guess there haven't been any failures of the cover.???
T
TalkAK
Well-known member
IMO the 5203 does not fit on a 2010 without machining. Yes it can be squeezed in there but I would not go there. Take the shim out and get the shoulder machined down the difference. On a 2009, it sounds like it will work, I have a 2010. There is some talk of machining the drive shaft, I am talking about machining the shoulder on the shaft that the 5203 (original 6203) sits on.
Here is the reason to machine your track shaft.
This is off my 2010 M8. This was the OEM single row bearing at 400 miles. Tap dancing on the mine-field as you can see.
Ordered up the 5203 double row from BDX and put it in without machining the track shaft. Everything went back together and fit perfectly, so I ran it for another 400 miles. Opened it back up just to check on things and found shinnies in the DD oil. I couldn't find anything that in the case that didn't look right. The new 5203 was still complete w/both seals in place, but this is what I found inside when i cut it apart. You can see the effects of the side loading on this inner race. This bearing would not have lasted much longer.
For this season, I have completely rebuilt the DD and replaced all the internal bearings as well as the caliper side bearings too. I have machined the .065" off of the DD end of the track shaft as recommended by BDX. My machinist told me the track shaft was some of the hardest material he has ever turned so I would certainly recommend taking it in to the pro's.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion.
This is off my 2010 M8. This was the OEM single row bearing at 400 miles. Tap dancing on the mine-field as you can see.
Ordered up the 5203 double row from BDX and put it in without machining the track shaft. Everything went back together and fit perfectly, so I ran it for another 400 miles. Opened it back up just to check on things and found shinnies in the DD oil. I couldn't find anything that in the case that didn't look right. The new 5203 was still complete w/both seals in place, but this is what I found inside when i cut it apart. You can see the effects of the side loading on this inner race. This bearing would not have lasted much longer.
For this season, I have completely rebuilt the DD and replaced all the internal bearings as well as the caliper side bearings too. I have machined the .065" off of the DD end of the track shaft as recommended by BDX. My machinist told me the track shaft was some of the hardest material he has ever turned so I would certainly recommend taking it in to the pro's.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion.
