Important Poll

[Grizzly Adams]

Economic realities are brutal. Welfare print media are a dying breed. Wonder how much $ are being funneled into the print division of SW from the website traffic revenues? Record #'s of newspapers are shutting down. Pulp & paper mills closing because of non existent profit margins.

My poll would contain option #5. Fire the new super moderator and his ilk, spend those savings on servers and restore Big D to the throne of moderation.

Wow I'm backing Big D!

I belong to some of the other 4m's and they would sure like a pay for access option over here!

Also some of the new moderators are turning me off with their nonsensical posts and threads about obvious topics that have been debated earlier in less inflammatory threads.

 

[thefullmonte]

Very good discussion and some very nice ideas. Just for the record I would rather not see this become a pay site unless they do start to offer more to the user somehow. However, some comments really got me thinking along the way. I belong to Thumpertalk as well. It is actually a retail and online store so they are more than likely supporting their forum through that. I'm curious how some of the other guys are doing it though.
I think Harris Publishing was possibly somewhat unprepared for the inevitable down size of print. Yeah, there will probably always be a place, but not as much demand for print. I'm not sure what exactly their company entails, but it would seem if print is their primary source of revenue then they need to reevaluate the position of the company.
Something that somewhat saddens me is how quickly some of you are willing to kick Snowest to the curb. Snowest is an incredible snowmobile community. I have been a member on here for about 7 years. Some of you have been here longer. I have acquired vast amounts of information I would have never gotten otherwise. We get info faster than dealers do! We are always helping each other out. I have also made some very good friends on here. For me to pay a small fee really shouldn't bother me too much.

 

[brahm]

Need to base your model of what other big site forums do, a good example is reefcentral.com (230k), or jalopyjournal.com (87k)

1) Charge more for site sponsors, give them there own forum
2) Really crack down on NON-Site Sponsor commercial entities from selling things on the forum. (swap meet should be fore private users, and sponsors only!)
3) Setup optional donation for premium benefits. Ie discounts from vendors, larger mail boxes, bigger photo albums, prioritized searching, ect ect.
4) Offer clubs, private club forums for a fee
5) Offer the mags in PDF/Downloaded/Online Viewable forum to donating members

I used to be an admin on a large streetracing forum, we went threw all these growing pains as well, in the end we gave people with memberships access to video galleries ect, mail bin, @snowest.com emails, ect.

The other route is to look for ways to lessen the cost of the site, better host, increasing the time between searches, looking for ways to reduce bandwidth usage ie limiting the file size of uploadable images as well as the number of images per post, possibly using a CDN ect, find a host that will let you variablize your hosting fees based on the season ie in winter when traffic is up have one plan, and switch to a cheaper plan in the summer when traffic is down.

You don't want to go full pay. It will KILL the forum, very few forums have ever been able to pull it off and by very few I mean NONE (well except maybe sportsshooter but they are more then a forum. Since there are already snowmobile forum alternatives of which most people already frequent, they would just move on, unfortunately snowest doesn't have the market cornered when it comes to snowmobile forums so you probably don't want to do anything that will make it less desirable to use then the other forums.

 

[Himark]

Well put Brahm..

After reading your post it makes sense to, instead of charge for what you already have come up with some upgrade options you can pay for OR continue with what you have for free. People wont feel cornered and will option at there will for the expense.

 

[rynokron]

Awhile back I would have paid to be a member. Not anymore.

 

[m_beeson]

good points brahm.

I wouldn't attack the swapmeet though. It is the free classifieds that have brought the printing services to their knees. I think this swapmeet in its present form is a good tool to atract new readers. I'd rename it though, to "Free Classifieds". I'd also put it right on the main bar so it comes up with the home page, not under the forum menu. It's a good format, use it...

I like the pay to upgrade phylosophy. If there was something to distinguish the paying members from the nonpaying members, I'd have already donated. I've just been waiting for SW to get their **** together.

 

[TRIPLESWILLNEVERDIE!]

You need another option on that poll because it looks like a lot of people did not vote because none of those options will work for them.
I could see a small charge for listing an item in the swapmeet but I dont think a subscription fee is going to go over very well.
If we could somehow magicaly get all the good info from the old forums back then I bet more people would think about paying something.

 

[brahm]

good points brahm.

I wouldn't attack the swapmeet though. It is the free classifieds that have brought the printing services to their knees. I think this swapmeet in its present form is a good tool to atract new readers. I'd rename it though, to "Free Classifieds". I'd also put it right on the main bar so it comes up with the home page, not under the forum menu. It's a good format, use it...

I like the pay to upgrade phylosophy. If there was something to distinguish the paying members from the nonpaying members, I'd have already donated. I've just been waiting for SW to get their **** together.

The only reason I suggest it, (and it's something I do on the forum I currently admin, and all prior). Is because a lot of vendors will chince out and spam forums to sell there products, which isn't fair to Paying Vendors, or private users who's threads get bumped down (ie you or me). If you have a business selling sled parts (even if you running it out of your house) , and you want to reap the benefits of snowest. You really should support snowest. Without the outlet you wouldn't be able to promote your business to this audience. This really wouldn't effect 99% of the users, just those vendors trying to take advantage of the community that snowest has built.

 

[H2SNOW]

and there ya have it

View Poll Results: How should we raise money to upgrade snowest

This poll will close on 12-02-2009 at 08:44 PM

Do a yearly subscribtion of say 30$ for access 11 10.68%

Make all the site sponser's $ go twards the site only 24 23.30%

Do a mo. fee of 5$ for access 1 0.97%

If I have to pay anything. Snowest can take a hike off a cliff. 67 65.05%

 

[Bubba700]

Great discussion, looks like a few more options could have helped people vote but really the whole poll was to get a good discusion going as to what people think about this topic. # where just pulled out of the air, Let me make that clear. This was a me acting as a user and not a moderator. There is a problem obviously and considering some of the great pieps we have on here, we should be able to come up with a great solution to get things fixed and running smooth so the good info will return.

 

[Chief]

Did any of you ever try to use the SledHeads forum?? When I was a SledHeads member (I've since dropped the mag, too little informative content) I had access to the SledHeads site and forum.. but there was no one there and little of interest. Access was limited to the paying magazine subscribers and the site had NO traffic to speak of.

SnoWest forum at the time (4 years ago) was massively busy with a great deal of interest (but less calling each other GAY).

I believe that if the forum charges for the ability to read and post the forum will die; you don’t have to be a member to be reached by the advertisers as it stands now and advertisers pay more for sites with more traffic. Make a charge to post and read and advertising dollars will dry up. Subscribers to the forum will not be able to support the forum on subscription fees alone.

Charge only to post and the content will dry up… As above advertisers will leave and the forum won’t be able to support itself.

The swap meet area has more traffic then any other; if a fee was behind posting what I want to sell, to the best audience that exists for the items I want to sell I’d be willing to pay that. If a private seller had to pay a small fee to start a thread for a single item listing and a retailer a little more then they, like the larger advertisers, would help support the site.

This year I’ve sold a drop in piston kit and a Team clutch using the swap meet.. There is almost no where else I’d reach my target audience for those items. I suppose I could have gone to DooTalk or Arctic Chat but those sites are read my many fewer then SnoWest. It would have been worth a couple of bucks per post to me. Certainly those retailers and manufactures that post Vents, Hoods, Tracks, Parts, Throttle kits, Scratchers, Clothes, backpacks, Avy Bags, etc. in the swap meet should either get that privilege from being site sponsors, advertisers with sidebar or banner ads, or pay a fee for posting.


My .02
Chief

 

[sbojan]

As much as I dislike them Google Ads appear to generate some decent revenue for sites that have high usage. If all we are asking for is some additional / faster bandwidth that may be enough to fund the expansion.

 

[HOBB-Z]

Awhile back I would have paid to be a member. Not anymore.

Its to bad that snowest is going through all of this because most of the problems are self inflicted and can easily be fixed.

The new moderator set up is a complete joke, you now have guys playing god
with posts that had no reason under current rules to be messed with much less removed.
In a recent thread some posts were deleted while others were not making it look as if the mod was picking sides, yet another reason vendors should not be mods.

And what happened to mods only moderating the section they are over????

All the sub forums have destroyed the closeness or family feel we used to have.

SLOWEST is spot on

Its to the point I could careless if it dries up and goes away much less pay

 

[coptzeer]

of all the forums i belong, none of them charge for being a registered user!
however, if you donate you get more the 25 pm's ect.
on the bike forum i belong too, in the for-sale area if you sale somthing you are not required too but recommened to make a donation (the site has helped you sale something, now you have money in hand...wouldent you feel feel obligated to give a little back?)
anyone know how many dollars are sold in the swapmeet?
just some food for thought!

 

[JedInUtah]

Something that somewhat saddens me is how quickly some of you are willing to kick Snowest to the curb. Snowest is an incredible snowmobile community. I have been a member on here for about 7 years. Some of you have been here longer. I have acquired vast amounts of information I would have never gotten otherwise. We get info faster than dealers do! We are always helping each other out. I have also made some very good friends on here. For me to pay a small fee really shouldn't bother me too much.

Sorry Monte- don't take it personally......you have to keep in mind that a forum is just that.......THE PEOPLE! Snowest really is just a gateway to those people. We are not willing to kick our friendships/knowledge/etc. to the curb.

But in a competitive market there are many other forums out there that have made it work so if we have to take our friends and knowledge elsewhere cause this system is failing, then so be it. I only hang out in one part of Snowest, the Utah section. There are other local forums where us utah folk can hang out.

There are other means to the same end...........nothing personal against snowest. Just people are going to use what works.

 

[XC700116]

Alright, I've read enough and voted and only a couple people have expressed in any way how I view the situation so Here's my 2 cents.

If this site goes to a pay site without something more significant to offer besides what's here now, or strictly to support Christopher's new shiny gadgets I'll be gone as will a pile of others.

First, There wasn't the problem with the server overload that we are now seeing before all the shiny object crap was added.

Second, I will agree there were some server related problems, (database error) This is NOT a hardware issue, it's an issue of a bad database be it organization or efficiency of code. Fix it right don't just try to throw more computing power at it. That's like trying to fix pitiful riding by buying a turbo Yamaha.

Third, This sight handled WAY more traffic without slowing to a crawl before these "upgrades" were added.

Fourth, I also understand Harris wanting to "clean up" the site a little but what is being attempted is clean up and numbers expansion. Which possibly could have been handled by the current equipment without the added layers of code recently added.

The whole idea of Bringing Snowest to a whole new level has been the objective. And if it was lowering the quality and adding tons of extra crap to muddle your way through then mission accomplished.

So far I've seen nothing but more confusion, further degradation of the content, More repetative threads of questions that have been answered a thousand times (and it doesn't surprise me as the search function sucks and blows). Most of the most important features asked for by the membership here have been ignored while more crap that very few want, and even less need, is added.

During the off season I spend a lot of time on here just BS'ing or whatever but this time of year most of my time is spent in technical threads giving and recieving good information that we all come here for. That is getting harder to find here and there's less and less of it by the day.

So as it stands would I pay for it? Not a chance.

 

[IDspud]

XC nailed my thoughts completely. Take me back to last winters snowest and let this crap disappear.

 

[sled_guy]

xc700116 said it pretty dang well.

Revert the site to what it was last winter and I'll pay you $5. Anything else and I'm gone.

I've already decreased my usage dramatically since the changes went in. I checked my firewall (yup, there are people on here that know something about computers) where I log all traffic on my internet connection. Snowest usage from my computer (that means me) has decreased 40% over the past 2 months... compared to last year at this time where usage was going up.

Getting and giving info here on Snowest has become a PITA. I think it's in danger of dying as is... start charging and that will just put a bullet in it.

sled_guy

 

[SledsWest]

Let em make people start paying, who cares. Forums aren't that hard to make. I just made one this summer for quad riders. If we get enough disgruntled people from here, all we have to do is migrate over to a new forum, call it anything we want and make it how we want....kinda like the Pilgrims did with the USA! We could even make it a democracy instead of a monarchy (or theocracy). Hell, we could even have it running like it was last year in no time at all. Problem is, everybody complains about it, but nobody wants to really leave and start something new. Just gimme the word and I'll have a sled forum setup in no time!!

 

[ACG]

I know a few sites that allow people to donate and change the color of their name or something like that letting everone know who donated. With alot of members and even if 1/10 of them donate $10 it is a start. You won't lose any members, and won't scare new members away.

Maybe offer some extras to donating members but I wouldn't take anything away from the general public. It would seem like visiting a **** site then.