I believe the more we give them the more they will find other things to spend it on. I would be willing to pay 50$ or more a year.10$ from all riders would help but the people managing it can't seem to get the job done.
How much would you pay to keep your riding area open?
- Thread starter CleElum Sledhead
- Start date
I wish you folks would distinguish between SAWS and the GROOMERS and GOVERMENT. This is how riffs get going.........
Bagger
Bagger, I agree there may be some confusion with who " them" and "they" are. Especially after reading msled162's post 
This might be a good time to clarify the title of this thread.
How Much Would You Pay To Keep Your Riding Area Open?
1. Who would I be paying?
2. What are the paid people doing to keep our riding area open?
3. If we pay money to keep the areas open, is it guaranteed that they will stay open?
4. How long will the area be open before we need to give more money.?
This might be a good time to clarify the title of this thread.
How Much Would You Pay To Keep Your Riding Area Open?
1. Who would I be paying?
2. What are the paid people doing to keep our riding area open?
3. If we pay money to keep the areas open, is it guaranteed that they will stay open?
4. How long will the area be open before we need to give more money.?
Good questions Fly. The poll questions were way to vague and generalized for us to be willing to answer. rpmbci.
Here's Who'd You Be Paying
#23 Today, 02:08 PM
FlyZ28
Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle suburb
Posts: 22
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Bagger, I agree there may be some confusion with who " them" and "they" are. Especially after reading msled162's post
This might be a good time to clarify the title of this thread.
How Much Would You Pay To Keep Your Riding Area Open?
1. Who would I be paying? We'd be paying the state license department, it would go directly into our snowmobile fund.
2. What are the paid people doing to keep our riding area open? Are you kidding, does anyone read the SNOFLYER?? It's a constant battle all across the state, With out WSSA and a lot of dedicated people we'd be in real trouble.
3. If we pay money to keep the areas open, is it guaranteed that they will stay open? HELL NO, come, nothing when you are dealing with the goverment is ectched in stone, but guess what, we got to keep trying and fighting them all the time. Should we PULL DOWN OUR PANTS AND DO NOTHING,???
4. How long will the area be open before we need to give more money.? WHO KNOWs, depends on who we have to fight next, We're not giving money to any one except an attorney here and there and our lobbiest in Olympia who are at a constant battle for us.
#23 Today, 02:08 PM
FlyZ28
Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle suburb
Posts: 22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bagger, I agree there may be some confusion with who " them" and "they" are. Especially after reading msled162's post
This might be a good time to clarify the title of this thread.
How Much Would You Pay To Keep Your Riding Area Open?
1. Who would I be paying? We'd be paying the state license department, it would go directly into our snowmobile fund.
2. What are the paid people doing to keep our riding area open? Are you kidding, does anyone read the SNOFLYER?? It's a constant battle all across the state, With out WSSA and a lot of dedicated people we'd be in real trouble.
3. If we pay money to keep the areas open, is it guaranteed that they will stay open? HELL NO, come, nothing when you are dealing with the goverment is ectched in stone, but guess what, we got to keep trying and fighting them all the time. Should we PULL DOWN OUR PANTS AND DO NOTHING,???
4. How long will the area be open before we need to give more money.? WHO KNOWs, depends on who we have to fight next, We're not giving money to any one except an attorney here and there and our lobbiest in Olympia who are at a constant battle for us.
S
snowmobiler
Well-known member
We have many volunteers working the situation.As it has been said earlier in this thread and others, many were not ready for a small increase in user fees. We have been going backwards for many years now on the amount of grooming and other services that we have been getting for the buck. Maybe or maybe not, we could get some better accounting, but this still isnt going to solve the problems. Many have put the way to catch up funds is to get more of the gas tax thru the wa.state legislature. We will know soon if that stratagy will pay off.
Many have wanted to raise the snowpark fees per sled for years. Many have not.
The fact is We have had a phoenominal amount of snow this year. This is magnifying the dollar shortage that has been going on for several years.
Doo we need the gas cap lifted? YES
Doo we need to increase our sled fees? Yes
Doo we need more volunteers involved in all the volunteer groups? YES
State parks is giving all of the snowmobile sno-park fees back in services or overhead.
Many doo not like the way that state parks handle the plowing, grooming and other snowmobile related tasks to doo. I am not the biggest fan either but they have a tough job to doo. Looking for those thinking that they could get every snowmobiler in the state happy. I would not want to tackle that job.
Lets all have some cool heads and get the job done. I just hope that my kids and grandkids still have somewhere to ride.
If you dont like the system, dont tear it down and start all over, just get in there and fix it.
Many have wanted to raise the snowpark fees per sled for years. Many have not.
The fact is We have had a phoenominal amount of snow this year. This is magnifying the dollar shortage that has been going on for several years.
Doo we need the gas cap lifted? YES
Doo we need to increase our sled fees? Yes
Doo we need more volunteers involved in all the volunteer groups? YES
State parks is giving all of the snowmobile sno-park fees back in services or overhead.
Many doo not like the way that state parks handle the plowing, grooming and other snowmobile related tasks to doo. I am not the biggest fan either but they have a tough job to doo. Looking for those thinking that they could get every snowmobiler in the state happy. I would not want to tackle that job.
Lets all have some cool heads and get the job done. I just hope that my kids and grandkids still have somewhere to ride.
If you dont like the system, dont tear it down and start all over, just get in there and fix it.
Sledman, We're talking land closures, lobbyists, lawyers, etc. It has nothing to do with grooming, snowparks
All I'm saying is the game of " which side can throw the most money at the cause" seems like a losing deal. Do I /we have a better fool proof plan? No. I just don't think it's right for people to be so judgemental of those of us who refuse to put our sledding money in the same place they do. We are on the same team and have the same goal. We just don't agree on the method of getting it done.
JETJOHNSO How Much Would You Pay To Keep Your Riding Area Open? 2. What are the paid people doing to keep our riding area open? Are you kidding said:
All I'm saying is the game of " which side can throw the most money at the cause" seems like a losing deal. Do I /we have a better fool proof plan? No. I just don't think it's right for people to be so judgemental of those of us who refuse to put our sledding money in the same place they do. We are on the same team and have the same goal. We just don't agree on the method of getting it done.
This post has nothing to do with grooming and plowing. Although we are in sad shape there too.
Sent you a PM fly. Give me a call.
Sent you a PM fly. Give me a call.
Money provides organization and expertise...without it we're screwed. What you need is a pit bull mentality against the greens, in other words someone who knows how to play the game of keep away.It's needed 24-7 and every state needs a "staff" if we expect to survive this lop-sided contest. Dave has done a great job in launching SAWS...the mission statement, the goal of not allowing one more acre of public land to be locked up is about as good as it gets but one guy cant do it all and he sure as hell shouldnt have to especially if he's donating his time.To percieve that throwing money at the "cause seems like a losing deal" is about as naive as it gets.
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BFunding
I need to mention that SAWS has several volunteers from many states. It is not just me. I really appreciate everyone that volunteers for SAWS. I know how vauluable your time is. Some western states like CA and WY we do not have any SAWS reps, so we can't do too much in these states to help keep the riding areas open.
I was just thinking that I would like to have someone else step in as the Chairman to free up some of my time and allow me more time to just deal with WA issues. I don't see anyone wanting to do this for free, so I thought that maybe with some sort of funding source we could hire someone to help out.
Don't really know. Just thinking outloud I guess.
I need to mention that SAWS has several volunteers from many states. It is not just me. I really appreciate everyone that volunteers for SAWS. I know how vauluable your time is. Some western states like CA and WY we do not have any SAWS reps, so we can't do too much in these states to help keep the riding areas open.
I was just thinking that I would like to have someone else step in as the Chairman to free up some of my time and allow me more time to just deal with WA issues. I don't see anyone wanting to do this for free, so I thought that maybe with some sort of funding source we could hire someone to help out.
Don't really know. Just thinking outloud I guess.
I WILL GLADLY GIVE MONEY TO THIS CAUSE! I just will not give the government any more user fee money and I thought that was the underlying question here. like others, I am sick and tired of throwing money at the state so they can give it out in salary to all of the enforcement idiots. Somebody please tell me how much of our money goes the them. We have a state patrol that is supposed to patrol the state, including snow parks.
The state can continue to close land for us to ride but I'm going continue to ignore the signs and ride state land when and where I want as I already do. If everyone did that what could they seriously do?
Here's a tip - If you see some little dork on x-country skis waving his arms at you in a recently closed area, don't stop or you will pay the $250 "user fee".
It is all the Liberals in office that think they are saving us from ourselves
Don't stereotype everyone with a particular political view into the same group. There are plenty of conservatives out there on county boards approval major development of high density housing in Fowler Creek and those areas that are closing these areas.
As well it is the anti-tax people that are the cause. It is the Tim Eymans of the world that keep cutting revenue streams that would fund these activities.
Look at the banking industry deregulation or the airlines deregulation for the failure.
Checking accounts used to be a $5.00 fee and all services were included. Then banks went to pay as you go user fees. Meals are no longer included in airfare, you now are user fee'd to death for your meal, headphones, etc.
The user fees add up to more than everyone paying a fixed cost. When everyone pays slightly higher taxes the cost of "extras" can be afforded because not everyone will use the resources.
When budgets are cut, priority must be given to schools, police, fire instead of "extras" like snowmobiling.
If you vote to continually cut state taxes then you are part of the problem.
"If you vote to continually cut state taxes then you are part of the problem"
I'm sorry buddy but that last sentence was hysterical. The spending in this state has increased over %30 in the last couple/few years and sooner or later you'll start hearing the words...budget deficits and tax increases on an hourly note. To put this off on Eyeman types is a joke right?
M
modsledr
Well-known member
If you think all Dave does is "..organize litter pick up parties and such..." then you obviously have your head burried in the sand. Have fun riding in your driveway when all the land is closed. (and if you're willing to ignore the lines in the sand, how many rides a year will you make if you know you could face a $250 fine,or more, EACH TIME you ride?).
Unfortunately, if we cant afford to hire the best law firm(s) money can buy, then we will lose...because the enviro movement has DEEP pockets, and even if they dont have the facts right, they get the "feel good about saving the planet" donations and votes.
We will never compete with thier numbers. But with the amount of money we spend on our sport, to not have organized legal representation is insane!!
modsledr
Deadheads without Tags -
Maybe this has already been stated… So sorry if it’s a repeat. BUT, our own user-group is in a small way to blame for the lack of funding. Have you ever noticed how many sleds are untagged out there? I volunteered with a couple rangers last year and couldn’t believe how many people were riding without tags! The rangers were pretty cool… they wrote the deadheads tickets and then gave them a chance to buy their tags in two days to void the citation (obvious proof needed). The reason? To support the sport and get the money into the system for grooming and plowing. The rangers explained that the money from a citation fee goes into the general slush fund for the federal (these were USFS) government (not back to us, or at least back to outdoor recreation needs). Who wants to give the fed gov more $$$ to spend? They would rather see the money spent on the sport, through taggin' the machines. The violators also got an ear full from us, the volunteers! Peer pressure works. No one rides for free, and when they do, they hurt the very sport they claim to love. There are only a few rangers out every week. Sure, sno-parks are checked for passes, but the primary tag-less violators I saw that day were the weekend cabin people who dock their sleds in their sheds and ride out their own driveway. One of the rangers told me that he cited a guy recently who claimed he hadn’t tagged his sled for five years! Hey buddy! Thanks for riding on my dime. My point, sure we need to raise the tag fee A LITTLE, but we also need to bag on the freeloaders! So, start looking at tags when you are out there, and let those who freeload know that they aren’t welcome in our sport. Get the message out!
Ride on!
Maybe this has already been stated… So sorry if it’s a repeat. BUT, our own user-group is in a small way to blame for the lack of funding. Have you ever noticed how many sleds are untagged out there? I volunteered with a couple rangers last year and couldn’t believe how many people were riding without tags! The rangers were pretty cool… they wrote the deadheads tickets and then gave them a chance to buy their tags in two days to void the citation (obvious proof needed). The reason? To support the sport and get the money into the system for grooming and plowing. The rangers explained that the money from a citation fee goes into the general slush fund for the federal (these were USFS) government (not back to us, or at least back to outdoor recreation needs). Who wants to give the fed gov more $$$ to spend? They would rather see the money spent on the sport, through taggin' the machines. The violators also got an ear full from us, the volunteers! Peer pressure works. No one rides for free, and when they do, they hurt the very sport they claim to love. There are only a few rangers out every week. Sure, sno-parks are checked for passes, but the primary tag-less violators I saw that day were the weekend cabin people who dock their sleds in their sheds and ride out their own driveway. One of the rangers told me that he cited a guy recently who claimed he hadn’t tagged his sled for five years! Hey buddy! Thanks for riding on my dime. My point, sure we need to raise the tag fee A LITTLE, but we also need to bag on the freeloaders! So, start looking at tags when you are out there, and let those who freeload know that they aren’t welcome in our sport. Get the message out!
Ride on!
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Thank you CleElumSledhead, SAWS and any other group that does go out of their way to fight for our right.
I would gladly pay but for what? Not lawyer fees!!! Why should we pay extra?
From the tax'es they can afford millions on some decorations in the state parks?
Have you seen the newer park downtown? Was that neccesary? Its a nice sencery but not fair they spend that much on something we don't have to have!!! We got starving freezing people all over a state and A REALLY NICE STATE PARKS!!!
Where do we draw the line?
What I am saying a little $10 donation would be able to do what? Most of us pay taxes in this state including the stiff 8.8-8.9% when we buy a sled that is millions a year!!! Where does this go? We are not allowed to drive them on the state highway's? All state parks get what amount per park? I see downtown parks get some nice stuff!!!
I don't think we can raise the kinda money that it takes but I am in for what ever you guys find fit/affordable for a rider!!! I know I don't do my part so this would be the least I do!
Again thank you CleElumSleadhead we need more people like you,
Christian
I would gladly pay but for what? Not lawyer fees!!! Why should we pay extra?
From the tax'es they can afford millions on some decorations in the state parks?
Have you seen the newer park downtown? Was that neccesary? Its a nice sencery but not fair they spend that much on something we don't have to have!!! We got starving freezing people all over a state and A REALLY NICE STATE PARKS!!!
Where do we draw the line?
What I am saying a little $10 donation would be able to do what? Most of us pay taxes in this state including the stiff 8.8-8.9% when we buy a sled that is millions a year!!! Where does this go? We are not allowed to drive them on the state highway's? All state parks get what amount per park? I see downtown parks get some nice stuff!!!
I don't think we can raise the kinda money that it takes but I am in for what ever you guys find fit/affordable for a rider!!! I know I don't do my part so this would be the least I do!
Again thank you CleElumSleadhead we need more people like you,
Christian
Modsledr....... I'm pretty sure most of us know that Dave does way more than organize pick-up parties, etc., including me. So quit trying to twist my words.
I've attempted to post my point of view. I believe I haven't attacked anyone or any organization. And I still stand behind my reasoning. I'm done, now, with the exception of:
I appologize if I gave off any negativity towards the groups/ people who support our sport. I would never do that intentionally. In my opinion, we may not all agree with how we make positive changes in our sport, but as long as a person contributes in some way and doesn't do the negative things, we are all on the same team.
Have a safe and enjoyable rest of the season.
...........Bob
Fly (Bob),
Don't get piszed and go away. It takes everyones ideas and opinions to make this work, stick in here and help us come up with some ideas !
The fact that you made the above statement means you're a stand up guy, stand up with us. Help how you think is best and stand by your decision. I'll stand by you for doing it.
Bagger
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