How much would you pay for Tabs? Poll

[JETJOHNSO]

Some Off You Have No Clue As To Whats Going On

There is so much wrong info on this thred I dont know where to start. The state doesnt get ANY OF OUR MONEY, It stays in our program, sure we have administration fee's to distribute it, check on it, have meetings about it, ect ect. Nobody is "robbing" us of our money, Do guys have any idea what it cost to keep 120 snoparks open on a year like this thru out the ENTIRE STATE ? Keep in mind this is a state wide program. Whats it cost to rent a D-8 cat with fuel, transportation, driver, insurance ect.?? Some of you are real idiots. I'm sorry but we only have so much money in the winter rec program to cover evey thing from plowing, grooming, out houses, adding more snoparks, ect. Do you think $35 goes as far as it did 6 years ago, Hell no!!!!!!! We'll we bascially have the same money, for all these years, think about it. the only way to keep the program alive and get back to what we had is to raise license fee's. DONT BE STUPID , we used to pay $2.00 for diesel and thought that was insane, now we pay up to $3.50 a gallon. Do you think your plowing and grooming will go farther now?? Sure the program has a few gliches, but take it from one who's been involved and been to more meetings keeping this thing going than you'll ever know, It runs pretty dang good for what we have. It's one of the best run programs in the western US. You've got to look at it state wide, greenwater, crystal springs and st helens arent the only riding areas in the state, It's a state wide program, and bottom line is we need more money in it. NOBODY'S GETTING PAID OFF YOU IDIOTS, GROW UP AND get involved instead of complaining, you will have different out look on our state program.

 

[tar]

If we were some minority group we would be taken care of without any questions asked! Maybe we should spend another million or so to change the Wa. state logo! Until the people in Olympia start listening to the voters, I am not in favor of any raises in fees. Our state government is so corrupt. Maybe we could fire one person that doesn't do sh!t, and spend their six digit salary on the people, or some of these budget shortfalls. There is the money for us, it has just been ROBBED to fund some government program that only benifits some small group of minorities. How about all of them skatboard parks around our area? Who paid for them? Ya, I feel we need places for kids to get outside and have a safe place to play. But, how many on here ever use one of these places? I don't want to ***** any more than I just did. have a good weekend and get outside to play! -2zeros

I agree well said!

Tar

 

[mtnsldr]

There is so much wrong info on this thred I dont know where to start. The state doesnt get ANY OF OUR MONEY, It stays in our program, sure we have administration fee's to distribute it, check on it, have meetings about it, ect ect. Nobody is "robbing" us of our money, Do guys have any idea what it cost to keep 120 snoparks open on a year like this thru out the ENTIRE STATE ? Keep in mind this is a state wide program. Whats it cost to rent a D-8 cat with fuel, transportation, driver, insurance ect.?? Some of you are real idiots. I'm sorry but we only have so much money in the winter rec program to cover evey thing from plowing, grooming, out houses, adding more snoparks, ect. Do you think $35 goes as far as it did 6 years ago, Hell no!!!!!!! We'll we bascially have the same money, for all these years, think about it. the only way to keep the program alive and get back to what we had is to raise license fee's. DONT BE STUPID , we used to pay $2.00 for diesel and thought that was insane, now we pay up to $3.50 a gallon. Do you think your plowing and grooming will go farther now?? Sure the program has a few gliches, but take it from one who's been involved and been to more meetings keeping this thing going than you'll ever know, It runs pretty dang good for what we have. It's one of the best run programs in the western US. You've got to look at it state wide, greenwater, crystal springs and st helens arent the only riding areas in the state, It's a state wide program, and bottom line is we need more money in it. NOBODY'S GETTING PAID OFF YOU IDIOTS, GROW UP AND get involved instead of complaining, you will have different out look on our state program.

This will come in handy later.

 

[tar]

There is so much wrong info on this thred I dont know where to start. The state doesnt get ANY OF OUR MONEY, It stays in our program, sure we have administration fee's to distribute it, check on it, have meetings about it, ect ect. Nobody is "robbing" us of our money, Do guys have any idea what it cost to keep 120 snoparks open on a year like this thru out the ENTIRE STATE ? Keep in mind this is a state wide program. Whats it cost to rent a D-8 cat with fuel, transportation, driver, insurance ect.?? Some of you are real idiots. I'm sorry but we only have so much money in the winter rec program to cover evey thing from plowing, grooming, out houses, adding more snoparks, ect. Do you think $35 goes as far as it did 6 years ago, Hell no!!!!!!! We'll we bascially have the same money, for all these years, think about it. the only way to keep the program alive and get back to what we had is to raise license fee's. DONT BE STUPID , we used to pay $2.00 for diesel and thought that was insane, now we pay up to $3.50 a gallon. Do you think your plowing and grooming will go farther now?? Sure the program has a few gliches, but take it from one who's been involved and been to more meetings keeping this thing going than you'll ever know, It runs pretty dang good for what we have. It's one of the best run programs in the western US. You've got to look at it state wide, greenwater, crystal springs and st helens arent the only riding areas in the state, It's a state wide program, and bottom line is we need more money in it. NOBODY'S GETTING PAID OFF YOU IDIOTS, GROW UP AND get involved instead of complaining, you will have different out look on our state program.

Blaah Blaah Blaah I have been involved in the program. There is enough money to groom. The people in charge(no names yet) need to learn how to send it wisely.I will not pay an other penny till these people are out(no names yet)
I have nothing to lose here so I'am just going to say it.
Tar.

 

[H20SKE]

Tar--You would not have a idea of what is going on now would ya?!

I love it--tell it how it is Tar!!!

6 years ago we were not paying 35 a year for tabs either.

Ah he!!---I will go for $100 dollar tabs and $200 snow park fee. Lets pay out everything they need-- That will only be $1000 from me to help do my part.

I think not---stop grooming and stop plowing the snow parks---Is it going to stop me from riding---NOPE!!



What can I say--I am reved up because I did not get up riding today!!

A bit Bi-Polar today.

This whole deal cracks me up--If the Demo's get in the Oval office---we will not have anywhere to ride anyways.


H20SKE...

Done with this topic.

 

[LEE]

State and WSSA info links

http://www.parks.wa.gov/winter/snowmobile.asp

http://www.wssa.us/#CONTACT%20YOUR%20LEGISLATORS%20TODAY!



​

 

[Norracks]

WOW

I think we found the sore spot or everyone's hot button. I have no problem paying more to get more, I really don't care if they plow the road or groom the Trail's for myself I have fun on all the jump's or um bump's. However when I get the wife out for a ride she likes the nice smooth trails and she's the one who lets me spend THOUSANDS and TEN's of THOUSANDS of dollars on this sport. So if I need to work a little O/T to pay for what ever it takes for 35,000 of us keep the trails in good shape for all of wife's and kid to have a Great family day and life time memories. Let's Doo it. Remember

If mama ain't happy nobody's happy……..

 

[JETJOHNSO]

some of you still dont get it

Our last lic increase was back in 00 / 01, we have had no increase since than, We average out at about 35,000 sleds every year, thats a fact, I can show you. Lic tabs are $30, We get 21 cents per gallon for a state average of 135 gallons (per sled) per year times 35,000 sleds. Sounds like a lot till you start budeting out for the entire state, Most of you all dont see the budget or where your money is spent, Bottom line is we have the same money we did 6 years ago. IT JUST DOESNT GO AS FAR ANY MORE, It's not rocket science, it's all in the fact s and figures and they are open to the public, We budgeted $253,000 this year for snow plowing. That's for all 120 + snow parks, And some dumb sh#@$ (on this sight) says he can plow a lot in 1/2 hour. Ya right, Crystal springs,?? Greenwater, St Helens, do you know how big those lots are?? And where do you put the snow now thats its been plowed.?? Do you know what it cost to rent a big snow blower?? Come guys quit bashing the system till you know how it works and where your money goes. Nobody is robbing you of your money, it's working for you and you dont even know it. Those groomers cost $200,000 to $300,000 to purchase, they are NOT BULDOZERS, they are designed to be light and move thru the snow, THEY DO BREAK, unfortunately. If you think these guys are getting rich on 75,000 dollar a year contract and buy equipment, buy fuel, insurance, operator, pay for break downs , transport from one snowpark to another, your crazy, buy the equipment and you can be the groomer . YEP THIS IS A TOUCHY SUBJECT WHEN YOU ARE IGNORANT, get the facts not hear say. Bottom line, we need a license fee increase, maybe up to $50 to get it started, that would put some more in our pot and we would not be running out of money on a good (bad) year , thanks and keep smiling

 

[snowbie]

Anyone know where I can buy a hitch for a RMK? http://www.snowgroomers.net/htm/snowmobile.htm

 

[snowbie]

BTW, groomers don't cost $300,000. Not used ones at least. http://www.resortboneyard.com/list.php?category=9
Most of these cost less than my tow vehicle.

 

[Ski Bum]

And why do you think those older pieces of equipment are being sold?
Older equipment = more maintenance = more downtime

Spewing hot air on a message board doesn't get much done. (other than pissing people off)
Look at where you ride, show up for the local grooming meeting, and talk to the people there. The State actually listens to the local grooming commities. (not to mention that they are the groups that set the grooming schedule for that area)

 

[snowbie]

I think the intention of most of the people on the board is not to piss someone off. This issue is huge. Snowmobiling is expensive. From the various posts I've read it looks like most people are open to paying more money to keep the areas open. I am one of them. I think the problem is one of money management. Is the budget for snow grooming / plowing available to the public? How are they out of money already? Is anyone accountable? Is there any oversight?

I took a trip down to diamond lake in Oregon. I don't know if it represents the majority of the state, but they had the best groomed trails I have ever been on in my life.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

Yes the money is managed

Maybe not as good as it should be but it's all public record, This has been an incredble year for snow, we DO NOT HAVE A GROOMING PROBLEM, just the snow removal, we have depleted that budget, It hasnt stop snowing in a month, (pretty much anyways), NONE OF US AT THE STATE MEETING THIS PAST JULY HAD ANY IDEA WE WOULD HAVE THIS KIND OF WINTER, On a normal season ( we have spread sheets for every past year) the $253,000 we set up for SNOW PLOWING would cover it easily. (and 72,000 in emergency reserve, which we used also) So, do we cut back grooming so we can get to the snowparks? It's not mismanagement, it's just we only have SO MUCH MONEY TO RUN THE PROGRAM,

 

[dog breath]

First priority is plowing for sno-park. Grooming is second. You need to park but you don't need grooming. Suck up the bumps. Also, $35 is more than enough for what I see where grooming is NOT done. Of course, I don't ride with the majority of the public rides.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

your a very small minority

dog breath, I agree, we need the snoparks to get to an area, no offense, but the 90 % of the riders DO USE snoparks and groomed trails to get to their favorite mountain. I dont like trail riding either but it's a neccesary evil. Hey if you've got kids and a wife that want to ride, it's pretty tough to tell them to "suck it up" and ride the bumps. just my thoughts. Any $35 is nothing for an entire year , would another $20 for the entire year kill you?? would you quit riding cuz its to expensive? of course not, We have not had an increase in over 5 years, same money just doesnt go as far anymore.

 

[Snowsharkette]

I pretty sure this is SORE subject with all!!! Ok... I would consider paying more if we could be able to do something about the offenders of the SNO-PARKS and the TURN-AROUNDS. They know who they are. At times you can't even find a place to park. Because some idiot thinks he needs ten fricken parking spots or some tree branch skier does'nt have a parking pass. So that leaves the people out that do pay at todays rates. Don't you think the State would have more money if they patrolled a little more. my 2 cents...PB

Gee, I'm pretty sure the Enforcement was somwhere around oh....$76,434 in 07 and they anticipate $77,260 for 08..... At least that is what the "FINAL" budget states. After the meeting yesterday, I don't have too much faith in the "budget."

 

[Snow Shark]

jet john

I refuse to pay another cent till the program has some accountabilty. I do not see the need to pay 77,000 on enforcement, if the cops want to go up to the snowparks. Let them pay out of another budget. I think you should not call people idiots. It is our money and they do not spent it wisely. Our local contractor has been raping us all season, they do not have the right equipment for the job. The contract they signed shows the right equipment required for the contract, but it is not the same equipment they use!

You can throw all sorts of money at a problem, but it will NEVER get fixed till them have to acccount for the money. At the meeting, they said they don't even know the amounts or several contracts, because the contractor has not submitted bills yet. I say if the contrator went over the budget, they do not get a extra cent. That is how the 115,000 from last year happened!

 

[2zeros]

The system is broke?

I noticed that the law enforcement at Salmon La Sac (I think they were the forrest service) had brand new nitro's to ride. I don't get a new sled when I'm broke. Doesn't look like they are broke. I know that is a different agency but, the money all comes from the same pot. Our pockets! Some of us have bigger pockets than others. Personaly I think they should stop grooming if they are broke! When I'm broke I don't get to keep riding. Do you? Our state does. The state takes money from one place to pay for an emergency, then the place they took it from is short on funds. Is this fair? Maybe us ORV people have an emergency this year, everyone else seems to have one. I'll bet public assistance isn't getting cut due to lack of funds! How many people on public assistance have to pay more taxes because the price of living has gone up? I have been in the ORV community all of my life. If you think that we are in control of our funds you are high! Why dont the snomobilers go talk to the dirtbikers. Offroad vehicles have taken it in the shorts for so long nothing is going to change! Snomobilers are in the same boat as the dirtbikers, just a little behind. We are catching up though. Anyways I would be in favor of a change in policy just don't have the answers. Maybe a little more fiscal responsibility by our elected officials would help! Do ya think? Anyways, have a good one -2zeros ps. I hate to be so down on the welfare peeps, I just think they should step up and start helping a little more, insted of wondering how soon their next check will come. I have seen too much of this!

 

[BigTruck]

Dont You people understand??

It's pretty simple math! If the price of fuel and wages has gone up, then the price we pay needs to reflect that! I dont know about you but I like riding and like to go as often as possible. If that means I have to pay an additional $100 annually then so be it!

Theres an old addage...........

YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY!

Rob.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

You Hit The Nail On The Head

I refuse to pay another cent till the program has some accountabilty. I do not see the need to pay 77,000 on enforcement, if the cops want to go up to the snowparks. Let them pay out of another budget. I think you should not call people idiots. It is our money and they do not spent it wisely. Our local contractor has been raping us all season, they do not have the right equipment for the job. The contract they signed shows the right equipment required for the contract, but it is not the same equipment they use!

You can throw all sorts of money at a problem, but it will NEVER get fixed till them have to acccount for the money. At the meeting, they said they don't even know the amounts or several contracts, because the contractor has not submitted bills yet. I say if the contrator went over the budget, they do not get a extra cent. That is how the 115,000 from last year happened!
__________________
SNOW SHARK, You just admitted the problem you all have had, and none of you will take any repsonsilbility, dont get me wrong, I AM NOT PICKING ON YOU, BUT , some body down your way should have said something about the wrong equipment, lack of or poor use. You cant expect those people on the board or state parks to be down there checking on it, IT IS THE GROOMER OR THE GROOMER CORDINTOR's responsiblilty TO SPEAK UP WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM. Weve had trouble in the I-90 area , and believe me, I know when there's a problem, I'm up there or I have people report to me all the time. It usually takes one phone call to state parks and something gets done. And tell mr 0 guy, what the forest service rides ( new sleds) has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STATE GROOMING PROGRAM. They are federal. Oh yeah and also, We need law enforcement at the snowparks every weekend to get everybody to license their sleds so we have more money in the program. You all dont get it. We are small fish in a big pond, Most law enforcement agencies dont want to send an officer up to the snowparks on weekends. they have way more important things to do. I mean really, think about it. They get no revenue from it. We need compliance licensing wise, and in many cases as in the I-90 area they help park vehicles so we can scoot more in . I dont know why alot of snowmobilers ***** and complain about law enforcement, They are there because we need them. Ok I'm done venting, I get boiled over everytime I log on, I'm done, to many experts on here and most , dont know whats going on in the big picture, thanks