has poo raised the hp up from last years sleds... 148hp

[TS Drag Racer]

Sold my 011 Pro and snow checked new Pro Climb. Being 6 4" 245lbs I need some more pop under the hood. The sled handled great and if the 012's would have had a bit more snort under the hood, I probably wouldn't have jumped ship. After spending 20 min on new Pro Climb, I new instantly what sled I was snow checking for 012.

 

[fredw]

i am sure you could get a doo race clutch in there..... i have some helmet cam viedoage to reinforce what i am saying

But what clutch would you use?

I am new to the HP debate but I have a good grasp on physics so I will use the word similar rather than same for my question. I do not see how similar sized pistons, Similar RPMs, Similar fuel delivery, Similar compression, Similar Bore and stroke can produce such a dissimilar horsepower.
Not that I ride a DINO but lots of guys apparently do , it seems that the track speed from the clutching is more important to the transmission of power if the engines are running within these similar parameters. Therefore alignment, belt wear,weights, heat and whatever other gremlins there are make a bigger difference in performance than DINO HP.
If I am wrong enlighten me either on this thread, a new thread, a pm or an email.
Otherwise I maintain my sled is better than yours because it is orange not green or yellow!

 

[Slick]

i am sure you could get a doo race clutch in there..... i have some helmet cam viedoage to reinforce what i am saying

Well, putting a Doo clutch on a Pro would certainly be one way to mess up the Pro, The Doo clutching has always been far more suited to racing than a mountain application. Thats where your extra HP is going, a bigger percentage is used up before the chain case. I sorta have never understood the whole 6 clicker thing, man if you need to put quick clikers on cause you r changing them that often for a day riding..... that should tell you something isn't quite right. If you put the Poo drive system on the Doo , I suggest the HP difference would be quite clear, cause right now its not always evident.

 

[Hurricane Tim]

I have an '11 Etec, and yes it has more HP than the Pro. It feels stronger on the bottom than the Pro, but when you get on the hill, the Pro keeps going whereas the Doo seems to lose some steam. I blame it on the garbage clutching that Doo has been selling us for years now. The Pro has much better factory clutching than the Etec, and I think it plays a large part in how the Pro performs so well with less HP #'s on paper. I bought a '12 Pro Retro, because after riding one for a full day last spring, I had to have one. In my head I kept thinking "this thing is supposed to have less HP than my Etec", but the rest of me kept thinking "man does this thing rock".

 

[Vertical Asshauler]

Another reason for the pro performing well with lower hp is its super light and efficient drive train. Over all shorter/lighter shafts, smaller chain case/chain, light weight disc rotor.

For every 1 lbs of rotating mass equals 7 lbs of stationary.

 

[JonezyBones]

You know this is a very similar situation when the M7 came out. Everybody dogged that it was a 700 and alot of people didnt purchase one because of that very fact. Yet they still continued to get walked all over the mountain by one week after week. Typical man to think you need the most power on the mountain to be the best. The HP numbers are only a marketing advantage for the blind. Forget the etec or the suzuki #'s. Ill take my low hp polaris AND my four year warrenty and be completely satisfied with the results. The little difference of HP here does not make that much difference on the hill.

 

[Jaynelson]

I dragged the a dealer's demo Etec 154X (stock) with my 163 pro (stock) all day on a bigass hill and they were dead nuts even with a lighter rider and substantially less fuel on/in the etec if you want to split hairs. Dead even all day for speed....traction was not an issue that day. The XP's wheelie more so they give the illusion of more power until you run them side by each. People go off what the brochure says as opposed to real life. Or maybe mine is magic....but I highly doubt that.

I owned a nice 07 Rev before my pro and would not be afraid to say if the etec ran away from me.....but it didn't. Even if it had....I would still prefer the light feel and handling of the pro regardless, but luckily you don't have to decide that. Pro gets you the same power + the handling.

 

[fredw]

so if they were dead even and the etec was wheeling alot, compared to the pro, what do you figure it could of sone with a 162 track where it would of not wheeled, and all power would of been taken to traction

with the tra, its advantage is if you start at a low elevation, and run to a high elevation, you adjust your ramp angle to run in its most efficent manner, now for the p-85 allows for none adjustment running over a wider hp spread and compensates for that

my question is how efficient is a clutch running that large a spread of hp threw it, there is pros and cons, i bet you might be suprized how high the loss really is

I dragged the a dealer's demo Etec 154X (stock) with my 163 pro (stock) all day on a bigass hill and they were dead nuts even with a lighter rider and substantially less fuel on/in the etec if you want to split hairs. Dead even all day for speed....traction was not an issue that day. The XP's wheelie more so they give the illusion of more power until you run them side by each. People go off what the brochure says as opposed to real life. Or maybe mine is magic....but I highly doubt that.

I owned a nice 07 Rev before my pro and would not be afraid to say if the etec ran away from me.....but it didn't. Even if it had....I would still prefer the light feel and handling of the pro regardless, but luckily you don't have to decide that. Pro gets you the same power + the handling.

 

[Jaynelson]

so if they were dead even and the etec was wheeling alot, compared to the pro, what do you figure it could of sone with a 162 track where it would of not wheeled, and all power would of been taken to traction

Given the snow conditions I don't think traction was a big issue. A 144" would have climbed that hill that day. If you compare the 154x16 to the 163x15 the footprint should be quite similar.

I wouldn't say the XP was wheeling more than any other XP.....they just tend to do so more the the Pro and that can give the illusion of more power unless you run them side by side. Not to an extent that you can't control it with body position or that you have to let off the trigger....they just carry the ski's higher.

I also wouldn't say my stock pro clutching is perfect.....but it's better than stock Doo clutching regardless of clickers. If you could run the same clutch/clutching and skid on each....hard to say what would happen. The Doo motor has higher output on a bench, so I would assume it would have that advantage. So you can spend money and get the Doo skid and primary to perform like the Polaris....or you can just buy the Polaris. I'm more into riding than modding....so that's my logic.

 

[Super Dave3]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a machine that has the skis up in a wheelie is probably getting better traction than a machine that has no ski lift.

 

[Ski-Dont89]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a machine that has the skis up in a wheelie is probably getting better traction than a machine that has no ski lift.

makes perfect sense to me

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

Is it just me or does our man fredw remind you of a Dr Suess poem?

I do not like it on the snow.
I do not like it where it goes.
I do not like it here or there.
I do not like it anywhere.
I do not like Pro-RMK.
I do not like it, Fred I say.

Would you ride one on a hill?
Would you ride one for a thrill?

Not on a hill.
Not for a thrill.
Not on the snow.
Not where it goes.

I would not ride it on the snow.
I would not ride it where it goes.
I would not ride it here or there.
I would not ride it anywhere.
I would not ride Pro-RMK.
I do not like it, Fred I say.

but then he'll ride one and be all

I do so like Pro-RMK!
Thank you!
Thank you,
Fred I say!

 

[Reg2view]

Cowboy poetry. Who knew? Nice job!

Regarding track lengths, the 163 could just have easily been slower than a 155 pro, and faster than a 154 doo. All depends on snow of the day.

Regarding doo clutching, the doo has an advantage off idle, it's not just a SOTP's thing. The TRA has higher belt force applied at lower shift, inherent in the design of the TRA with the arms swinging and the ramps fixed. Opposite for the P85, higher belt force applied at higher shift. That's the famous poo finger walk. It's been tested extensively over the years. More than one poo drag racer would fit a TRA on their fuji or liberty once upon a time (and with the RV - rotary value - some of those poos also had a rotax in them. There's a reason poo started to limit contingency monies to only those with a poo motor under the hood in the 90's. The other poo racers squealed on them.) In the end, poo has consistently shown lower sheeve temps than doo on the hill with stock clutching. We are close to nirvana - maybe it's the proclimb, maybe a DI RMK, but soon someone is going to have both an unstoppable deep snow chassis AND a the strongest AND toughest motor/drive system. Don't think it's going to be doo. The zuke is strong and tough, and with the DD history, they are getting closer. Time will tell with the chassis.

 

[tdblakes]

Isn't Cat going to start producing their own motors within the next couple years? I'm sure the tables will turn again... and it'll keep going around and around and around. These are the reasons we have aftermarket companies. Want more grunt out of your Pro? Get an SLP stage tuning kit of some kind... at least you'll be starting with a top of the line chassis. How far will $2000 get you for an aftermarket rear suspension and more efficient drivetrain? probably not as close as adding 15-20hp with a stage 3 or 4 SLP kit...

 

[Reg2view]

Cat's motor production will be limited to 4s's I believe, ATV, UTV, sleds in St. Cloud. 2s's will be from zuke, at least as long as they keep them in the lineup, from what I understood. Would think zuke will keep any DI tech for themselves, also, and they do own a third of the outstanding cat shares. We'll see.

 

[440dart]

So the lowest HP and the highest breakdown percentage is the cool thing to have these days just like skinny jeans and a belly button ring.
I have yet to ride a pro as iam still riding a dragon iam pretty hardcore polaris i just want to have my cake and eat it too is that so bad? Not only would i like it but polaris would like it when the pockets are stuffed full of cash by having the baddest sled on the mountian wich is another thing i cant understand why they dont do something about there engine quality.

As im still rideing the iq chassis I still see all the post of d8s blowing up thats comeing out of there owners pockets gives you something to look forward to with the new pro

Hopefully buy the time iam ready to buy a pro they will come up with some HP,reliability to go along with the most badass chassis on the mountian.

 

[440dart]

Isn't Cat going to start producing their own motors within the next couple years? I'm sure the tables will turn again... and it'll keep going around and around and around. These are the reasons we have aftermarket companies. Want more grunt out of your Pro? Get an SLP stage tuning kit of some kind... at least you'll be starting with a top of the line chassis. How far will $2000 get you for an aftermarket rear suspension and more efficient drivetrain? probably not as close as adding 15-20hp with a stage 3 or 4 SLP kit...

15-20 SLP HP is = to 4to5 real world HP, i like how when i put a slp pipe and can on my d7 i didnt need to add fuel it takes more fuel to make HP but my slp twins on the other hand run like a cheetah on cocaine i had to jet up 6#s on my fuel box.

 

[tdblakes]

15-20 SLP HP is = to 4to5 real world HP, i like how when i put a slp pipe and can on my d7 i didnt need to add fuel it takes more fuel to make HP but my slp twins on the other hand run like a cheetah on cocaine i had to jet up 6#s on my fuel box.

Thought we were havin a paper HP race... My bad. Real world HP says stock for stock the pro runs with any mfg sled. Not callin you out just makin a point. Real world HP to the track is all that matters. If everyone is still keyboard racin that is. can we go ride yet?

 

[turbolover]

i like how when i put a slp pipe and can on my d7 i didnt need to add fuel it takes more fuel to make HP

Not always. Sometimes you need to burn what you are using more efficiently. If its running rich it isnt burning the all the fuel. If you put a pipe on that more efficiently fills the cylinder than the stock pipe, you will get more power from that same amount of fuel.

With twins you are getting to the point that it needs more fuel to make more power, hence the numbers on the box.

I'd bet if you used that box to pull some fuel from the stock setup it would make power than it was in stock form.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

 

[WINJE]

Very Interesting people / post

Many of you have made my decision very easy and many of you guys have made it become harder. My issue is.. I have a 2008 m1000 that is basicly a 2010 besides the engine reverse. It has the full slp you guys know, it goes good... But i think i want a new sled now with all of your guys comments i catch my saying yes and no to a new 2012 pro. The skid is more advanced than the pro-climb everyone knows that and you can't argue,it puts more track to the ground period. But the engine is ok. So i want input how many of you guys have ridden both selds and in your honest opinions pro's and cons of both sleds. I guess what I'm saying is i cant afford both so i can only buy one. Thanks again