Wow, thats gnarly! Crazy pics for sure, thanks for the post.
Groomer stuck in Cascade Lake??
- Thread starter Sled Idaho
- Start date
S
Snow Flake
Guest
Hewy won't budge that thing. Better have a Chinook or a Sky Crane. Even then with the water and slush in everything its doubtful. It will be worth watching if the Guard trys to air lift it. They hate to admit defeat.
Hey Gary!
Is it just me, or does the ice look thin? From what I can tell in your pics, it only looks 6 to 8 inches thick. (But then again, 8 inches on my ruler is probably different than most....
As for the 'big hewy'-- a the IDNG uses Blackhawks, and they have a lifting capacity around 9,000 pounds. That's not nearly enough for a groomer. Air bags tied underneath are they best bet. Lift it to the level of the ice and start pulling.
I worked for a recovery company for a while, and way back when the Fish and Game dropped a plane in the snake river, we dove in and filled inner-tubes with air to float it, then dragged it with a boat.
Is it just me, or does the ice look thin? From what I can tell in your pics, it only looks 6 to 8 inches thick. (But then again, 8 inches on my ruler is probably different than most....
As for the 'big hewy'-- a the IDNG uses Blackhawks, and they have a lifting capacity around 9,000 pounds. That's not nearly enough for a groomer. Air bags tied underneath are they best bet. Lift it to the level of the ice and start pulling.
I worked for a recovery company for a while, and way back when the Fish and Game dropped a plane in the snake river, we dove in and filled inner-tubes with air to float it, then dragged it with a boat.
bingo -- bags and big winch truck or a dozer with winches on it, 
Hey Chris....Not use to you and the Cat stuff!
The way I saw it he had grommed the 3 mile "short" trail from Burnt Tree Monument down to West Mountain Road. This is so steep that you have to groom it down hill. He then tried to go back up to groom back down from 4 corners I think. There is an area on that groomed trail that is a very steep up hill for about 100 yards. The groomer look like it spun out about 20 yards up. He walked it back down tuned around and went back down to the trail. At that point it looked to me like he went accross West Mtn. Road and groomed down to the lake. Then went on to the lake and started for the groomer shed. It is approx 6-7 mile via West Mtn. Road from where he crossed West Mtn. Road to the groomer shed.
The bad thing is when the operator jump out he did not shut the engine down. It went down running.
I heard from the old timer that the opperator said he went down the road 3 miles and turned onto the lake to cool his tracks. Now when I went back down the road there is nowhere on that road that he could have went over the 10'+ snowbank on the side of the road to get to the lake.
The old timer also said that grooming was over at West Mountain this year. I find that hard to believe. They will come up with a plan to get it groomed. The bummer about this is it will take away from the other areas that have been groomed on a regular basis this year. Let's give them a little time before we jump to conclusions and start pulling our money from them.
I can't wait to see the extraction!
The way I saw it he had grommed the 3 mile "short" trail from Burnt Tree Monument down to West Mountain Road. This is so steep that you have to groom it down hill. He then tried to go back up to groom back down from 4 corners I think. There is an area on that groomed trail that is a very steep up hill for about 100 yards. The groomer look like it spun out about 20 yards up. He walked it back down tuned around and went back down to the trail. At that point it looked to me like he went accross West Mtn. Road and groomed down to the lake. Then went on to the lake and started for the groomer shed. It is approx 6-7 mile via West Mtn. Road from where he crossed West Mtn. Road to the groomer shed.
The bad thing is when the operator jump out he did not shut the engine down. It went down running.
I heard from the old timer that the opperator said he went down the road 3 miles and turned onto the lake to cool his tracks. Now when I went back down the road there is nowhere on that road that he could have went over the 10'+ snowbank on the side of the road to get to the lake.
The old timer also said that grooming was over at West Mountain this year. I find that hard to believe. They will come up with a plan to get it groomed. The bummer about this is it will take away from the other areas that have been groomed on a regular basis this year. Let's give them a little time before we jump to conclusions and start pulling our money from them.
I can't wait to see the extraction!
The Boise area National Guard has those M1 Tank recovery vehicles, that's what they need. They were designed to pull M1's out of the wetlands around Fort Knox. The groomer will move, or whatever the cables are tied too will rip off.
Sorry about the bad news Miller and Crew, you guys did a great job on the trails this year. Seems there's a curse on the grooming program, may take another year to exercise it.
Sorry about the bad news Miller and Crew, you guys did a great job on the trails this year. Seems there's a curse on the grooming program, may take another year to exercise it.
thats crazy,and the guy that drove out there is an idiot!he should go for a little swimm to,update the pics while trying to get it out!?
My wife is from cascade, and her pairents said that this has happend before. They used the equipment from the now non-existant mill to get the groomer out.
that groomer did warm lake, cascade, up to about tamarack.
the donnelley groomer is still fine, as is smith's ferry, and the mccall area will totally be unaffected.
it really is too soon to say waht the rest of the season will bring. The entire county has a history of helping each other out, and we are all working to bring this thing off.
my GUESS will be the surrounding areas will help out, and fill in the gaps, and sledders will still have a great time riding in the cascade and surrounding areas.
I do know the folks at the state level and at the county level are ACTIVELY working on this issue, and this is very important to everyone I have talked to.
When something bad happens, it sure is cool when everyone comes to the table wtih the desire and passion to help fix the problems.
the donnelley groomer is still fine, as is smith's ferry, and the mccall area will totally be unaffected.
it really is too soon to say waht the rest of the season will bring. The entire county has a history of helping each other out, and we are all working to bring this thing off.
my GUESS will be the surrounding areas will help out, and fill in the gaps, and sledders will still have a great time riding in the cascade and surrounding areas.
I do know the folks at the state level and at the county level are ACTIVELY working on this issue, and this is very important to everyone I have talked to.
When something bad happens, it sure is cool when everyone comes to the table wtih the desire and passion to help fix the problems.
B
badass1000
Well-known member
Is driving the groomer across the lake a normal practice, or is it some thing he should not have done at all???
Have fun pulling it out if the water freezes back up.
Have fun pulling it out if the water freezes back up.
" heard from the old timer that the opperator said he went down the road 3 miles and turned onto the lake to cool his tracks."
I call B.S. on that statement, I have over 3000 hours in Pisten Bulleys and have never heard of cooling your tracks!!! They dont get hot or even warm for that matter!!!! I might agree on extreme fatigue and maybe gettin off course or maybe takin a short cut back to the garage but even then a P.B. on a lake is a no no, they have even lost them in Ak on the Iceroad!! That ice is definately thicker up north than what appears in the pics!!! And as far as what shape it will be in ,they are an electrical nightmare when they arent under water!!!!! The drive computer etc will be toast all the contacts hydraulics, engine,, man what a mess, glad the operator made it out!!!!
I call B.S. on that statement, I have over 3000 hours in Pisten Bulleys and have never heard of cooling your tracks!!! They dont get hot or even warm for that matter!!!! I might agree on extreme fatigue and maybe gettin off course or maybe takin a short cut back to the garage but even then a P.B. on a lake is a no no, they have even lost them in Ak on the Iceroad!! That ice is definately thicker up north than what appears in the pics!!! And as far as what shape it will be in ,they are an electrical nightmare when they arent under water!!!!! The drive computer etc will be toast all the contacts hydraulics, engine,, man what a mess, glad the operator made it out!!!!
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^
I mis-quoted this. It was not the old timer but the County Shreiff told us that he said this.
The Channel 7 news said the opperator said he got lost in a snow storm. It was clear as he!! that night. I did not see one snowflake. The opperator also declined an interveiw on TV................wonder what he has to hide?%*!
I agree RMK we spent all weekend up in mccall and they got a "DUSTING" ,"SKIFF",or "FLURRIE" friday night. but other than that crystal clear.
P
priest lake rmk
Well-known member
Someone has some splainin to do.
I would say 20' deep & 30 to 40 yards of shore.
Surprised you can even say "Cat"...with a straight face.
Ya, I updated my ego when the forum changed.
So how thick is the ice? Think he stopped by Tamarack for a couple cocktails???
Ya, I updated my ego when the forum changed.
So how thick is the ice? Think he stopped by Tamarack for a couple cocktails???
Our club's sad groomer story.
Year 2000, early January, 20's below zero temps.
Night time grooming north of Brainerd,MN our long time driver, and a another driver who was riding "shotgun" were crossing Flanders lake (more like a slough, about 4 or 5 ft. deep) at night with the '97 Tucker.
The trail comes out of the dense woods next to the shore, crosses this slough in a big sweeping 90 degree curve about 3/4 mile long, and then back into dense woods.
Now the funny part. The two drivers start disagreeing about whether to angle this-way-or-that across the lake.
(Side note: there is no other way to connect the trail except across the lake, but we don't groom the lake, just cross it.)
Old experienced driver says "its this way!" Newer driver says "no it isn't, your way is too close to the beaver lodge." Old guy insists he's right.
(You can see where this is going can't you.
)
CRUNCH,SPLOOSH! SH*T!!!
The drag, and the rear drivers of the Tucker broke through, and are under water. At least the most of the engine, tranny and front end are above water.
The front tracks were on the ice. So now what? Its waaaay below zero, pitch dark, damn near midnight, and about 5 miles to walk to to a property owners house. They use the phone and call a bunch of people. (No cell service in that area back then.)
Afraid it would freeze in by morning, so skipping some details here, they get several large tarps, and long 2X4's and make a tee-pee tent over the whole mess. Then hauled out a generator, some propane tanks, and a couple "torpedo" heaters.
(Still middle of the night , remember.)
Next day they decide to have a local welding/fab shop construct a "portable" double A-frame out of steel I-beam. Next, a building mover company brought out some massive long wooden pads to set under the A-frames.
Using a heavy strap around the belly of the Tucker and a heavy duty chain hoist picked up the back of the Tucker (Drag was disconnected first) and slid heavy timbers under the rear of the machine, and it was winched off the lake.
(Another story how the tow rig got to the site. Talk about wrecking the trail!!)
Then the drag was pulled out, same process. Time line was about 3-days from the time it broke through, and cost around $5,000 including having the A-frame expedited and constructed.
Insurance paid for most of the cost luckily.
Sorry, so long here, but such is trail grooming. Everybody has a horror story to tell.
Year 2000, early January, 20's below zero temps.
Night time grooming north of Brainerd,MN our long time driver, and a another driver who was riding "shotgun" were crossing Flanders lake (more like a slough, about 4 or 5 ft. deep) at night with the '97 Tucker.
The trail comes out of the dense woods next to the shore, crosses this slough in a big sweeping 90 degree curve about 3/4 mile long, and then back into dense woods.
Now the funny
part. The two drivers start disagreeing about whether to angle this-way-or-that across the lake.(Side note: there is no other way to connect the trail except across the lake, but we don't groom the lake, just cross it.)
Old experienced driver says "its this way!" Newer driver says "no it isn't, your way is too close to the beaver lodge." Old guy insists he's right.
(You can see where this is going can't you.
)CRUNCH,SPLOOSH! SH*T!!!
The drag, and the rear drivers of the Tucker broke through, and are under water. At least the most of the engine, tranny and front end are above water.
The front tracks were on the ice. So now what? Its waaaay below zero, pitch dark, damn near midnight, and about 5 miles to walk to to a property owners house. They use the phone and call a bunch of people. (No cell service in that area back then.)
Afraid it would freeze in by morning, so skipping some details here, they get several large tarps, and long 2X4's and make a tee-pee tent over the whole mess. Then hauled out a generator, some propane tanks, and a couple "torpedo" heaters.
(Still middle of the night , remember.)
Next day they decide to have a local welding/fab shop construct a "portable" double A-frame out of steel I-beam. Next, a building mover company brought out some massive long wooden pads to set under the A-frames.
Using a heavy strap around the belly of the Tucker and a heavy duty chain hoist picked up the back of the Tucker (Drag was disconnected first) and slid heavy timbers under the rear of the machine, and it was winched off the lake.
(Another story how the tow rig got to the site. Talk about wrecking the trail!!)
Then the drag was pulled out, same process. Time line was about 3-days from the time it broke through, and cost around $5,000 including having the A-frame expedited and constructed.
Insurance paid for most of the cost luckily.
Sorry, so long here, but such is trail grooming. Everybody has a horror story to tell.
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Start cutting the ice with a chain saw and drag that sucker out of there. I would say send down a diver and disconnect the drag and go back for it later or even abandon it.
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