Grey Wolf endangered

[bullfrog123]

Well stated bubba!! The fact of the matter is, is that wolves were NOT re-introduced, There were wolves out there before the introduction of more to the population, they just learned to stay in the extreme back country away from humans and such. My family has been farming in this area for close to 100 yrs, and everyone of them has seen wolves in the past. They are multiplying like mad and now are not scared of humans and civilization. There are 4 packs within 15 miles of my home, and are killing domestic pets like mad, and it is only going to get worse as the packs grow. There deffinitely needs to be some control over them. Makes me scared to let my kids go for a bike ride down the farm roads around here as I did when I was a kid. Heck, one wolf was killed by a pickup just 1.5 miles from my house last fall.

You greenies sitting in your office in LA, Chicago, New York, etc. have NO clue as to how hard it is to make a living in the west. Our livelihoods do not consist of beautiful wildlife photgraphs. We hunt, fish, and work hard to produce food and income. Who the heck do you think supplies your milk, cheese, eggs, steak, etc. It is all done by hard working ranchers/farmers just trying to make a living for their families. Come one out and live here for a yr or two and try telling us anything diff. I dare ya!!

 

[xrated]

You greenies sitting in your office in LA, Chicago, New York, etc. have NO clue as to how hard it is to make a living in the west. Our livelihoods do not consist of beautiful wildlife photgraphs. We hunt, fish, and work hard to produce food and income. Who the heck do you think supplies your milk, cheese, eggs, steak, etc. It is all done by hard working ranchers/farmers just trying to make a living for their families. Come one out and live here for a yr or two and try telling us anything diff. I dare ya!![/QUOTE]

Well said with the first part...but how many snowest 4m members do you think actually live in Chi-town or LA or NYC?

 

[Xtreme Velocity]

OK everyone...just watch this for the final proof. This episode just aired yesterday on Versus (look for it again one month from yesterday at 3pm EST - that's 1pm for most of us in the mountains)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoH9GvEgxwI

 

[Nate]

OK everyone...just watch this for the final proof. This episode just aired yesterday on Versus (look for it again one month from yesterday at 3pm EST - that's 1pm for most of us in the mountains)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoH9GvEgxwI

Thanks Thomas!!!!

 

[Raff_9001M]

It's not always about city folk, but for the most part they are the ones who don't live here and have no idea what is going on here. They come out on vacation to Yellowstone and see the cute wolves and don't realize the consequences for everyone living here. And most of the ranchers were here before the wolf re-introduction. Where else are they supposed to run cattle? That's they're grazing. It's just been illegal to kill them even if they're killing livestock. The gov't just brought them all in and expected that everyone sit by no matter what happens. Not that that stops people. I just think people should be a little more educated before trying to protect them so much. I'm all for a humane shot to the head though.

Out of curiousity, how much livestock grazing occurs on federal lands versus private lands?

 

[Nate]

Out of curiousity, how much livestock grazing occurs on federal lands versus private lands?

If you ever come to Wyoming, give me a shout, ill show you livestock on 99% federal land all over the state, majority in this state ARE grazing on federal lands

 

[Raff_9001M]

If you ever come to Wyoming, give me a shout, ill show you livestock on 99% federal land all over the state, majority in this state ARE grazing on federal lands

Another curious question. How much does it cost a rancher to graze on federal lands?

 

[Bubba700]

Another curious question. How much does it cost a rancher to graze on federal lands?

For some one who , as you said in another thread has family that ranches, you sure seem to be pretty clueless about their costs, and other things they deal with.

 

[HeadLever]

Another curious question. How much does it cost a rancher to graze on federal lands?

Are you talking about the simple AMU cost or the total cost including, but not limited to, gas for your truck and horse trailer etc., packing salt, maintaining range fences, maintaining riparian areas, monitoring stubble heights, monitoring the conditions of stream banks, costs associated with keeping the BLM, Forest Service, State, and other agencies off your back, costs associated with keeping Jon Marvel and his ilk off your back.

Be specific.

 

[ARCTIC DUCK]

although i really enjoy seeing the wolf in the wilderness, i believe the tradeoff is too expensive. we have taken over the wolves and grizzlies position as the apex predator and if the government would only allow proper game management all would be well. simple fix yeah???? j/k

 

[Raff_9001M]

For some one who , as you said in another thread has family that ranches, you sure seem to be pretty clueless about their costs, and other things they deal with.

They don't use federal lands to graze.

 

[Raff_9001M]

Are you talking about the simple AMU cost or the total cost including, but not limited to, gas for your truck and horse trailer etc., packing salt, maintaining range fences, maintaining riparian areas, monitoring stubble heights, monitoring the conditions of stream banks, costs associated with keeping the BLM, Forest Service, State, and other agencies off your back, costs associated with keeping Jon Marvel and his ilk off your back.

Be specific.

I have a fairly good idea of the cost of the AUM. This has nothing to do with grey wolves and I am not implicating anything. I was simply curious if it is financially feasible for ranchers to utilize federal lands to graze or is it more economically efficient to run cattle on privately owned land.

I would assume that all ranchers, regardless of utilizing federal land or not would assume the same costs you have mentioned above minus the federal hazing - which could be considered more of a headache than an actual out of pocket expense.

 

[HeadLever]

I have a fairly good idea of the cost of the AUM. This has nothing to do with grey wolves and I am not implicating anything. I was simply curious if it is financially feasible for ranchers to utilize federal lands to graze or is it more economically efficient to run cattle on privately owned land.

Normally, grazing on public lands is still cheaper than paying for pasture, especially if you use your land to grow hay during the summer. Where I grew up, pasture land is expensive because it normallly means that you loose the abiltity to grow hay on it. There is not that much private land to begin with where I grew up.

That being said, grazing on public lands is becoming harder, mainly due to the ever-increasing environmental regulations they have to put up with. Lawsuits from environmental organizations, such as the Western Watershed Projects (Jon Marvel), also increase their cost.

One of the large problems for them is that almost every year the government allows fewer and fewer animals to be set out on the allotments, the stubble heights get higher and higher, and the duration allowed in each allotment is reduced. This forces ranchers to reduce their herd or pay for pasture for the balance of animials that they can no longer allow on public land.

Add to these cost, the real chance that a large portion of your herd may become wolf chow during the course of the summer while out on the range, and you can see that it is becoming more and more difficult for ranchers to justify using public lands to graze.

 

[MARV1]

^^^Start another thread about farming, or do a google search on costs.

Wolves don't care about "who's" land it is on, they'll go eat what is available whenever they want to. In the wild they'll go after the sick and injured, those that put up the least amount of fight. And domesticated animals such as cattle don't put up much of a fight to survive therefore are easy target. Pets also make easy target, and they usually end up killing those just because they can.
Predator control is a must.

 

[Raff_9001M]

Normally, grazing on public lands is still cheaper than paying for pasture, especially if you use your land to grow hay during the summer. Where I grew up, pasture land is expensive because it normallly means that you loose the abiltity to grow hay on it. There is not that much private land to begin with where I grew up.

That being said, grazing on public lands is becoming harder, mainly due to the ever-increasing environmental regulations they have to put up with. Lawsuits from environmental organizations, such as the Western Watershed Projects (Jon Marvel), also increase their cost.

One of the large problems for them is that almost every year the government allows fewer and fewer animals to be set out on the allotments, the stubble heights get higher and higher, and the duration allowed in each allotment is reduced. This forces ranchers to reduce their herd or pay for pasture for the balance of animials that they can no longer allow on public land.

Add to these cost, the real chance that a large portion of your herd may become wolf chow during the course of the summer while out on the range, and you can see that it is becoming more and more difficult for ranchers to justify using public lands to graze.

Thanks. Very much appreciate the information.

Marv1. Copy That

 

[bullfrog123]

AHHH 2 more dead SOB's in Idaho. I know the shooter and applaud him for protecting his investment. Now let's see if the F&G and courts agree.
Here's the info http://www.kidk.com/news/local/17240394.html

 

[HeadLever]

AHHH 2 more dead SOB's in Idaho. I know the shooter and applaud him for protecting his investment. Now let's see if the F&G and courts agree.
Here's the info http://www.kidk.com/news/local/17240394.html

Thanks for the heads up. by my count, that now makes a total of 32 wolves killed so far this year in the 3-state area, most of them by US Fish and Wildlife Services.

See the following link for the US FWS weekly control and depredation reports. The weekly reports stopped after the states took over control, but they are interesting to read through.

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/archives.htm

 

[weetee]

According to the FAQ's on the news artical link, If you see a wolf feeding on a carcus, but you didn't see the attack, you cant shoot him. What bonehead came up with that law. Give the ranchers the tools they need to protect their investment and feed the world.

 

[HeadLever]

According to the FAQ's on the news artical link, If you see a wolf feeding on a carcus, but you didn't see the attack, you cant shoot him. What bonehead came up with that law. Give the ranchers the tools they need to protect their investment and feed the world.

That is true, but if you can prove that the wolf killed the animal through a necropsy, and the pack has been involved in other depredations, they will be placed on the "extermination list". Also, if you have problems with wolves, the regulating authority (in this case IDFG) can issue a shoot-on-site permit for the landowner.

That rule is to keep the wolf lovers off thier back and to help the argument for delisting. The thought of this rule is to ensure that the animal was responsible for the kill before control action is taken, not just scavenging. This rule does not apply in Wyoming where they are classified as a predator.

 

[weetee]

That is true, but if you can prove that the wolf killed the animal through a necropsy, and the pack has been involved in other depredations, they will be placed on the "extermination list". Also, if you have problems with wolves, the regulating authority (in this case IDFG) can issue a shoot-on-site permit for the landowner.

That rule is to keep the wolf lovers off thier back and to help the argument for delisting. The thought of this rule is to ensure that the animal was responsible for the kill before control action is taken, not just scavenging. This rule does not apply in Wyoming where they are classified as a predator.

Thanks for the info.
That sounds like an awfully big hoop the ranchers have to jump thru while they watch a wolf devour their investment. I think WY has the right Idea.
I love to see wolves in the park, so I guess I could be labeled as a "wolf lover" but, I like eating steak better. Outside the park they should be fair game. Wolves will learn where not to feed.