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Raff_9001M
Well-known member
How do we know wolves kill for fun? I have heard this on other threads about the wolf as well.
Grey Wolf endangered
- Thread starter Fosgate
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How do we know wolves kill for fun? I have heard this on other threads about the wolf as well.
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mtntopper
Member
I will guarantee you city boys that if I am pursing a coyote on my sled, it will be a cleaner faster kill than some of you that will try to shoot 400 yards at one that is running away from you, wound it then have it run off and die slowly. All you will do with a sled is push them down in the snow, slow them down and very seldom will they be hurt by the snowmobile even if it runs over them. You have to hit the brake hard while on top of them to even bruise them. But a bullet at 20 or 50 feet works very well and the sled is a way to get that close quick kill shot. I never said torture the animal. A sled is just another weapon to use to keep the predators in control, just like using a predator call. The state and federal funded trappers are now using helicopters and airplanes in their pursuit of predators in Wyoming as the predator population is skyrocketing and these guys are paid to do this by your tax dollars. I have a friend that is a professional trapper funded by the state and he says the predator population is the largest right now than he has seen in his 30 years as a "predator control officer" the PC way to say paid professional varmint hunter.
Get some balls..............or your sled areas will be taken away to preserve and protect all of these animals by people who think just as some of you are posting.
Wolves were eliminated many years ago from areas used to raise livestock for a good reason. They will go in and kill 20 or 30 sheep or calves and eat a couple. It is documented they kill more than they will eat and will also keep going back to an easy kill area for easy food such as in the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone where elk calves are born and are very easy prey. So for those that need to see the damage done by wolves, go to Cook City or other areas affected by wolf reintroducing and talk with the locals that are hunting guides, livestock people and see what the reintroduction of wolves has done to the wild game and livestock producers outside of the park and in adjoining states.
Get some balls..............or your sled areas will be taken away to preserve and protect all of these animals by people who think just as some of you are posting.
Wolves were eliminated many years ago from areas used to raise livestock for a good reason. They will go in and kill 20 or 30 sheep or calves and eat a couple. It is documented they kill more than they will eat and will also keep going back to an easy kill area for easy food such as in the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone where elk calves are born and are very easy prey. So for those that need to see the damage done by wolves, go to Cook City or other areas affected by wolf reintroducing and talk with the locals that are hunting guides, livestock people and see what the reintroduction of wolves has done to the wild game and livestock producers outside of the park and in adjoining states.
Greenies are going TOO FAR
The greenies say if too many wolves are killed next season they're going to SUE THE FEDERAL GOV'T!
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080329-1221-wst-wolfdelisting.html
How can you sue the Gov't??? I didn't think you could legally do that.
I sure hope the gov't looks at this like a pissed off 12 y/o trying to fight a Ultimate Fighter....just snap the stupid kids neck and be done with it!
The greenies say if too many wolves are killed next season they're going to SUE THE FEDERAL GOV'T!
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080329-1221-wst-wolfdelisting.html
How can you sue the Gov't??? I didn't think you could legally do that.
I sure hope the gov't looks at this like a pissed off 12 y/o trying to fight a Ultimate Fighter....just snap the stupid kids neck and be done with it!
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decarls
Member
lazy?
To me it seems like you hunters and ranchers (that want the wolves dead) are just lazy.
For me, my chance of just seeing a wolf in its natural habitat is more important than your free range cattle operation or your quick and easy hunting season.[/QUOTE]
c'mon, if your going to put forth a argument... make it legit. to call ranchers/farmers lazy is just stupid. don't you think these people have enough things to worry about without these varmits killing their livelihood?
To me it seems like you hunters and ranchers (that want the wolves dead) are just lazy.
For me, my chance of just seeing a wolf in its natural habitat is more important than your free range cattle operation or your quick and easy hunting season.[/QUOTE]
c'mon, if your going to put forth a argument... make it legit. to call ranchers/farmers lazy is just stupid. don't you think these people have enough things to worry about without these varmits killing their livelihood?
mtntopper, I don't know about where you are, but in MN it is illegal to chase animals on sleds. come on how would you like to be chased down, stopped on and then shot? Your the one who is sounding lazy. Yeah the federal guys use planes and copters, but they are getting paid to do a job and using the most efficent way, you, you are just being lazy and giving us a bad name. I'm not saying don't shoot critters, but for the christs sake if you keep this up I hope you get a nice snowest timeout.
Decarls, you seen any wolves in the natural habitat in your part of the county?
Decarls, you seen any wolves in the natural habitat in your part of the county?
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decarls
Member
x rated,
they're everywhere. it's ridulous how many we have around here in the last 3-4 years, have been a few people losing calves, even have some federal trappers in. seems like lead poisoning is the best method for relocating them.
used to have yotes but since the big dogs have moved in you don't see many. i don't know if it's connected but it seems like the bear pop has gone down too?? this could be purely coincedence though. you must have a bunch of these mangy ba$tards around your parents place?
they're everywhere. it's ridulous how many we have around here in the last 3-4 years, have been a few people losing calves, even have some federal trappers in. seems like lead poisoning is the best method for relocating them.
used to have yotes but since the big dogs have moved in you don't see many. i don't know if it's connected but it seems like the bear pop has gone down too?? this could be purely coincedence though. you must have a bunch of these mangy ba$tards around your parents place?
Saw a few about 5 years ago, then nothing but the rare road crossing. Then I saw one out in the spruce swamp this summer. Thing was BIG. the hummocks in the swamp are 2-3 feet high and they didn't cover the ***gers legs!!!
Just asked my Dad about them. He said people are seeing more, but nothing major yet. Still he did say if the deer herd starts dropping so will the wolves.
I hadn't heard anything about trappers coming into the county though.
Not a great pic but it ran before I got closer.
I don't consider my sled a "recreational vehicle" as I use it throughout the winter as my main mode of transportation as do most of Alaska. There are plenty of hunters/trappers that use sleds to run their traplines as it is an efficient mode of transportation and can cover lots of miles in a day. Predator control is a must, and using a sled to track and shoot wolves works.
blah, blah, blah. . . You can't please everyone all the time an how one uses a sled. You use your's how you want, we'll do the same.
blah, blah, blah. . . You can't please everyone all the time an how one uses a sled. You use your's how you want, we'll do the same.
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mtnjunkie
Well-known member
That is an ignorant statement. You're calling ranchers and farmers lazy? They work harder than just about any other occupation you could have. All for very little money or to be in debt and be lucky to break even. Why? Because we need to them to feed people. Or maybe we should just import all of our produce, meat, hay for everyone's high dollar horses, and everything else. How do you propose that we keep wolves from killing cattle and horses except shoot them? Put up a scarecrow in the field?
They don't scare easily. There are so many here they are coming right up to fields next to our houses and killing calves. There was a pack last summer that chased some friends horses through fences. Just one of those horses is worth thousands. And we're supposed to let the wolves kill them or chase them till theyr'e about dead just so you city folks can see a wolf in their natural habitat? This is our livelihood. It's how we survive. I guess we could all just move to the city though right?Their natural habitat is not the same. There's people living there now. Which is why they are killing livestock. And there are a lot more wolves than the gov't claims. Coyotes are very overpopulated here too. I've seen several surround a newborn calf while the cow is still down. You shoot one and they're back in a couple hours. Here's an idea. How bout you come on over and you can sit out in the field with our cattle and horses and chase off the wolves and coyotes with a stick so they don't get hurt. Problem solved huh.
It's not that I hate wolves or anything. But there are too many and they're not staying in the wilderness like people wanted in the first place. And many people do not understand the effects it's having on people like us who's livelihood is livestock. We can't afford to lose a $10,000 horse or even a $1000 horse to a wolf. Or several calves. That's income to ranchers. Their only income. The population needs to be controlled. They're not cute little dogs. They're wild animals. Maybe if a few more city folks were out somewhere alone with several hungry wolves watching them they wouldn't be so sympathetic towards them.
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mtntopper
Member
Wrong, they will just switch their food supply to domestic livestock, house pets along with any other easy prey possibly even a child.
Predator 101...........
Here is how they do their deed:
Coyote
Coyote kill by strangulation and/or by severing the jugular vein. They attack the throat just behind the jaw and ear, clamping down on the animal's windpipe, and leaving puncture wounds below the lower jaw. Bleeding from a severed jugular vein may be subdermal. A small coyote can kill a large sheep or calf, and the process is silent; the victim cannot bleat or make noise with its throat shut. Typically, the coyote will roam around the flock, waiting for a straggler or a lamb with insufficient flocking instinct, sometimes a large, strong lamb, that tries to run. Or coyote will wait by a calving cow and snatch the newborn calf before the cow is on her feet again. Western coyote, especially in northern areas where the stock are concentrated, will often attack calving cows in packs, and wait for the afterbirth in preference to the calves. Coyote will often drag a carcass to a quiet area, and follow a distinctive eating pattern. They make an almost surgical opening in the thorax, consuming the heart, lungs, liver, and internal organs, except the stomach. They sometimes return later to pick at bones or haunches.
Wolves
Wolves are usually organized pack hunters, and may leave many dead. Unlike dogs, they usually eat what they kill. In a typical wolf attack on cattle, the first bites are at the base of the tail (the wolf grabs the vulva). The second and third bites are in the flanks, generally both sides. The wolves may begin eating the cow before it has bled to death. Wolves typically immobilize a horse by grabbing the ham string. Wolves have an uncanny ability to spot the slightest limp or other weakness when they are selecting prey. Two yearling wolves can bring down a large cow elk; even healthy domestic livestock is little challenge to a wolf. They can also clear high fences and may have little fear of guard dogs. Healthy wolves in the wild do not normally attack humans but there have been instances of wolves conditioned to humans attacking children or other vulnerable individuals.
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Raff_9001M
Well-known member
That is an ignorant statement. You're calling ranchers and farmers lazy? They work harder than just about any other occupation you could have. All for very little money or to be in debt and be lucky to break even. Why? Because we need to them to feed people. Or maybe we should just import all of our produce, meat, hay for everyone's high dollar horses, and everything else. How do you propose that we keep wolves from killing cattle and horses except shoot them? Put up a scarecrow in the field?
Their natural habitat is not the same. There's people living there now. Which is why they are killing livestock. And there are a lot more wolves than the gov't claims. Coyotes are very overpopulated here too. I've seen several surround a newborn calf while the cow is still down. You shoot one and they're back in a couple hours. Here's an idea. How bout you come on over and you can sit out in the field with our cattle and horses and chase off the wolves and coyotes with a stick so they don't get hurt. Problem solved huh.
It's not that I hate wolves or anything. But there are too many and they're not staying in the wilderness like people wanted in the first place. And many people do not understand the effects it's having on people like us who's livelihood is livestock. We can't afford to lose a $10,000 horse or even a $1000 horse to a wolf. Or several calves. That's income to ranchers. Their only income. The population needs to be controlled. They're not cute little dogs. They're wild animals. Maybe if a few more city folks were out somewhere alone with several hungry wolves watching them they wouldn't be so sympathetic towards them.
How come it always about city folk. Regardless of right or wrong, when it comes to federal land everyone has an equal voice.
An argument, albeit with flaws, can be made that life is about making choices. If one decides to ranch in habitat with predators then one should expect predatory habits.
I don't think anyone is arguing against attempting to control the population of wolves, it's just this is the third or fourth thread in which people are describing serial killer type ways to kill an animal.
mtn topper, did you read my posts?
Originally Posted by xrated
Just asked my Dad about them. He said people are seeing more, but nothing major yet. Still he did say if the deer herd starts dropping so will the wolves.
Wrong, they will just switch their food supply to domestic livestock, house pets along with any other easy prey possibly even a child.
I'm not some ignorant, even though you seem to think most of us are. I meant the wolves will drop in numbers just like porcipines drop in numbers when they start wrecking trees on someones tree farm.
Originally Posted by xrated
Just asked my Dad about them. He said people are seeing more, but nothing major yet. Still he did say if the deer herd starts dropping so will the wolves.
Wrong, they will just switch their food supply to domestic livestock, house pets along with any other easy prey possibly even a child.
I'm not some ignorant, even though you seem to think most of us are. I meant the wolves will drop in numbers just like porcipines drop in numbers when they start wrecking trees on someones tree farm.
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mtntopper
Member
So you are saying that they will just drop over dead from lack of food if the deer numbers decrease? Wrong again! It is a fact they will move on to another area as they are doing in the west and prey on the food source that is available. The continual expansion of their territory to find food as the numbers of wolves and coyotes grow beyond the existing available food source is the problem. They do not care if it is livestock or house pets as long as it is a food source.
You need to teach them to read and write so they will stay on public lands and away from the private land holdings that they are now are taking over. Most of us would not have a problem with them if they stayed where they are supposed to be, but you failed to teach them to read, write and obey private property rights.
Just how thick is your head man?
I have never said I was against killing the things. When a porky wrecks trees that are income, the porkies get shot. When wolves start wrecking the deer herd, they get shot. Just not chased, tormented and degraded first. Just a simple, well placed shot. Mayeb we need to teach you how to read and interpet what is being written.
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mtnjunkie
Well-known member
It's not always about city folk, but for the most part they are the ones who don't live here and have no idea what is going on here. They come out on vacation to Yellowstone and see the cute wolves and don't realize the consequences for everyone living here. And most of the ranchers were here before the wolf re-introduction. Where else are they supposed to run cattle? That's they're grazing. It's just been illegal to kill them even if they're killing livestock. The gov't just brought them all in and expected that everyone sit by no matter what happens. Not that that stops people.
I just think people should be a little more educated before trying to protect them so much. I'm all for a humane shot to the head though.
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Anti-Hero
ACCOUNT CLOSED
we just need more chinese restaurants to substitute wolf for dog? or a wolf whisper to teach the big bad wolf to be nice to the poor helpless deer and elk and bunny rabbits and moose and cows and cuddly bears. Maybe we could invite the greenies to help us protect all the cute animals and help kill the big bad wolf? imagine enviro-sledders.
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Bubba700
ACCOUNT CLOSED
Wow reading through some of the comments on this thread made me laugh a bit, seems we have the extreme kill em all and lets toy with them as we kill them and we gotta little of the extreme why do you want to kill them they are awesome. For the ones that think its fun to run em down with your sled and mess with em then kill em, get a life they needed to be controlled but efficently. To the side that don't get that people that live in these areas don't want them there. Put yourselves in our shoes, they affect our lively hood in some cases, how would you feel about some one telling you that you are going to have to deal with up to a 10k loss a year? In a lot of ranchers cases that is what is happening. I bet you would be pissed, thats a new sled. The wolves reintro was a classic case of selfish people wanting something and didn't look at all the neg. effects that it would have in the areas they were putting them back into. All they cared about was the chance to see a wolf in the wild. They never thought about the losses to ranchers, the hit to those that are guides ( people don't book elk hunts if there aren't any), the drop in G@F revenue because of the drop in sales of tags and licenses, I could go on and on but the point is they never took those things into account. Just their selfish desire for something.
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