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For Those Who Ride the Colockum...

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See, right here you admit that if access could be made to this already designated wilderness area that non motorized users would have a place to recreate without trying to shutoff current motorized access areas..yet rather then work out a mutually benifitial plan with other users(motorized, snow shoers or even other ski/boarder enities) you go right back to the only answer is to close motorized access...
as far as there is 100,000 non motorized users vrs 33,000 motorized users..obviously there isnt..other wise there wouldnt be room for anyone to do anything on any given day..there might be that many peices of gear bought..but I doubt a fraction of it is being used every day/ every weekend all winter long..I know most people buy stuff for a hobby, go a few times then the stuff collects dust in the corner..motorized users are different..when you spend upwards of 100,000 for sleds/gear/truck/trailer..you tend to use the stuff..its just too big of an investment not too..regardless none of it matters if instead of focusing on shutting out other users..you focus on opening areas that users you dont want to recreate around(motorized users in this case), such as wilderness areas by working out a plan to allow better road accesss/parking..simple solution that doesnt invade on anybodies rights, everyone would benifit and you would get what you ultimately want..a non motorized play area in a great location with easy access....so ..how about put up or shut up?..here is a solution that benifits everyone..that I am sure every group involved from motorized, non motorized, from summer to winter enthusist , that BLM, USFS,DNR, every one could all support and work togeather to make happen...

I agree with your solution and if it were possible in any way we would support it! Not aware of how to make it happen in this lifetime, given the mountains here and $$ and etc. Perhaps there is an idea or two that has been discussed to plow for a new Sno Park for closer access to the goods, but the system for Sno Parks is in financial distress as it is. USFS is as well in financial distress and barely has time/ resources to make all of those plans and analyses.

Have been on the phone and email and it looks like meetings of the 'sides' may come together here. Hard to do much until we can respect each other and accept that the other is entitled to their recreation reasonably, no one shutting out the other. But we may be headed in that direction. For my part, I believe our 'side' must accept snowmobile recreation, offroad, on some nice areas.

So yea, agreed, if that access could happen we would be pleased, good idea.
 
Why , instead of coming on here and stirring things up, arnt you out getting corporate sponsors to pay for the access you need?.. I cant see DNR,USFS,BLM or any other govt. agency putting a stop to it if you can work to make it happen at no cost to the govt...as long as the wilderness is protected...and I would hazard a guess that most if not all other groups involved wouls chip in and help your group find financial help....pretty simple to me..get off here and go start banging on corporate doors and come up with not only the funding, but a plan that will work..and start presenting it to the govt. enities that control this stuff....balls in your court..make it happen....
 
Why , instead of coming on here and stirring things up, arnt you out getting corporate sponsors to pay for the access you need?.. I cant see DNR,USFS,BLM or any other govt. agency putting a stop to it if you can work to make it happen at no cost to the govt...as long as the wilderness is protected...and I would hazard a guess that most if not all other groups involved wouls chip in and help your group find financial help....pretty simple to me..get off here and go start banging on corporate doors and come up with not only the funding, but a plan that will work..and start presenting it to the govt. enities that control this stuff....balls in your court..make it happen....

That is a new concept indeed, and a great idea! Private funding to enhance access. I will bring it to the discussion. There is a lot of potential corporate funding and a large population of winter pedestrian recreationalists in Pugetopolis. Thanks.

Better access could benefit all. It could help with monitoring the Wilderness as well. In our situation, say there was road improvement and plowing to create a Sno Park at Beverly (newtrout's idea) with public funding, then the grooming could start there for snowmobiles- now it does not go to the end of the road. Using Proposal 3
(link- http://www.justgetout.net/ClientFiles/8ecf9e69-8f8f-419d-91d8-10c7ca9cbcbb/proposal 3.pdf ) snowmobile riders would continue riding in Longs Pass and Van Epps. Skiers/ snowshoers/ winter campers park at Stafford and head up into the Stafford NMA or into Beverly NMA to the Wilderness Bdry crest. As well Proposal 3 leaves the large areas by Brothers and Navaho on the non-Wilderness side, of course, for snowmobile riding.

An idea...USFS has called it all PWA, and some of the enviro groups are set on the Proposed Wilderness there. However, Wilderness takes many years, we could create a model now to prove 'your' point that the Wilderness Boundary could be obeyed by riders...

When we together get something like that going, we can move on to some huts for both groups. Lots of potential.

Some good ideas come out of these discussions. Thanks!
 
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Do not mistake attempt at civility for weakness.
QUOTE]

do not mistake me not having a sled curently with my resolve to expose your agenda.

Proven again, that you won't answer a direct question. You full of crap and have yet to bring your side of a "proper discussion" about land use. You my good sir are a fraud and should be treated a such by all that believe in our PUBLIC land being for the PUBLIC!

Seriously, don't interact with this ignorant selfish fool. Until he answers direct questions. Heck if the honorable and uber knowlegable Newtrout finds his lame attempts to "thank you for the discussion"...then he's really full of foul smelling, needs to brush his teeth BS..err sorry...BS
 
do not mistake me not having a sled curently with my resolve to expose your agenda.

...[/QUOTE]

:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

Umm, the entire 'agenda' is linked from this forum, ideas discussed, anybody may read it. Put down that hot dog and chocolate milk and go find someone to read it to you....

I have not ridden my snowmobile since Friday. I cleaned it up and put it in the garage yesterday since the road from Blewett is mostly melted for the first two miles. Enough grinding the gravel for the year...
 
Umm, the entire 'agenda' is linked from this forum, ideas discussed, anybody may read it. Put down that hot dog and chocolate milk and go find someone to read it to you....

QUOTE]

Great, post the link and then leave. I'll print out your pages of "information" and then upchuck the hotdog and chocolate milk on it then read it like a witch doctor reading bones....both of which could be considered complete BS, so guess you are dead on with being in the full of BS classification. Or maybe I'll wait a while until the hotdog and chocolate milk are processed(since you are a nurse, you should know what that means) and then add it to your manifesto...then it will smell just like it reads....like a pile of crap.:usa2:
 
lmao

Some contact has been made here with folks who wish to have civil and meaningful dialogue. Good, that is the reason to be here.
so you found another sucker on snowest..

Sorry powderminer... should have warned you better!!!

no one on here, including wmc has a better honest approach than newtrout.. on any site.. he is interested in doing the right thing.

just ask the forest service...

so now that wmc can no longer have his way with newtrout he is done with him...lmao

who is next....ace????

if the closures go through in the teanaway, i will be looking forward to bringing him his lunch in person in headlight or any of the other areas i will will deam free to ride as my riding area will be greatly increased as will not give a chit any more.....

do not feed the troll!!!


robert mullins ...of leavenworth washington, is only interested in furthering his agenda..

he is only looking for reasonable folks to take advantage of, he is truly a manipulative tool ,looking to screw snowmobilers and any good willed person he can take advantage of..

he is truly a piece of chit.
 
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so you found another sucker on snowest..

Sorry powderminer... should have warned you better!!!

no one on here, including wmc has a better honest approach than newtrout.. on any site.. he is interested in doing the right thing.

just ask the forest service...

so now that wmc can no longer have his way with newtrout he is done with him...lmao

who is next....ace????

if the closures go through in the teanaway, i will be looking forward to bringing him his lunch in person in headlight or any of the other areas i will will deam free to ride as my riding area will be greatly increased as will not give a chit any more.....

do not feed the troll!!!


robert mullins ...of leavenworth washington, is only interested in furthering his agenda..

he is only looking for reasonable folks to take advantage of, he is truly a manipulative tool ,looking to screw snowmobilers and any good willed person he can take advantage of..

he is truly a piece of chit.

Wow, you sound kinda grumpy. That harsh Jenny Craig diet must be rough. You should avoid the hot dogs and chocolate milk with your buddy there. And there are some non-Rx natural supplements to help that estrogen balance- you know, gynecomastia, mood swings, tearfulness.

But really, bla bla you do not like me...got it.
 
Until next time

Some good stuff here from some folks, thanks. New ideas, new potential.

Thanks to rmk2112 and Christopher for allowing this, in spite of the usual guys trying to derail the discussion.

We are fortunate to have the great areas of the Wenatchee Mountains. There is room for both winter uses to fully enjoy the forest.
 
I truly am embarrassed and worried when people on snowmobiles so blatantly break the rules… but as far as WMC is concerned; I think his admonishment was well represented here from some people who clearly understand the debate.

I do not support any of WMCs proposed actions, as he will not come to the table with facts or with many misrepresentations of the facts.

Eg:
Wilderness – open to skiers not to Sleds period.

There are 33-36,000 registered snowmobiles, vs. anyone who has skis in their garage? My brother boards and sleds, but owns no sled? My mom’s sled was not registered this year, but still a snowmobiler? Use apples to apples.

These tactics are obvious and it is hard to see how we can keep a civil conversation if you are unwilling to be civil yourself. It is quite apparent that you are addicted to the argument; and as pointed out, in the end, have no regard for the sharing of public lands.

I hope that the Forest Service has other citizen input from the muscle powered winter sport community that is more willing to approach this with bigger ideas rather than argumentatively.

Plain and Simple. Snowmobiling (Supper Sexy Sex, Huge Genitalia, Helicopter Pilot, Snow Love - Powered Winter Sport :rockon:) (Take it easy, just a joke at your ostentatious “muscle powered” designation) has much less quaility terain than the non-SSSHGHPSLEAPWS sports do. how you get there is up to your sport; this site can recomend a few good snowmobile (SSSHGHPSLEAPWS - Powered) dealers to assist you with that.
 
example

Wow, you sound kinda grumpy. That harsh Jenny Craig diet must be rough. You should avoid the hot dogs and chocolate milk with your buddy there. And there are some non-Rx natural supplements to help that estrogen balance- you know, gynecomastia, mood swings, tearfulness.

But really, bla bla you do not like me...got it.

LMAO

and you. robert mullins should work on being a stand up guy..

instead of a back stabbing tool.



OH OH ...BOB CALL THE FORUM POLICE...WENDELL JUST TRASHED ME.....WAAAAAAA


once again robert...you truly are a piece of chit...that is all you will ever be
 
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truth

the truth is mr mullins does not care about being a stand up guy..
 
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You don't see this guy complaining about riding over some tracks.

complainin.jpg
 
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