For Those Who Ride the Colockum...

[justabry13]

When I say the other side, I am referring to the Wenatchee World's constant stories on making land non motorized and the only people they talk to are the skiers and other so called "muscle" powered snow sports. (Although I am pretty sure that I use plenty of muscle to ride my sled too) Every single story they publish is done so with the skiers side of the story and not the snowmobile community. That is irresponsible journalism and continues to show what an embarrassment the paper is.

Again, keep in mind here, I am in complete understanding that those riders should not have been back there. Until it is proven otherwise, they should have known that they were not supposed to be in there. Maybe they didn't know, but that isn't something we can know for sure. My problem is the actions of a few affecting hundreds of others, and the only picture being painted by our local paper is a picture that we are an evil group that wants to make skiers lives a living hell and take away all their fun when you and I both know that is just not true. I, like the majority of the riders in this area, obey the Wilderness and Non-Motorized boundaries and never bitch otherwise.

My biggest problem is people like you who preach and preach for us all to share the lands for all winter recreation. Again, the word SHARE is used quite often. But, in that same preaching you want lands designated for non motorized use so that you can all the other "muscle" powered sports (I hate that term) can have that land all to yourself. HOW IS THAT SHARING!!!???

I have been riding up on the Colockum now for 5 years and guess how many times I have seen a skier or snowshoer "sharing" the groomed trail system? ZERO!, I repeat, ZERO times. The only time we see anyone else is up at the microwave towers. We the people that hike across from Mission Ridge and then ski down the ridge and drop into one of the many other bowls in Mission Ridge's boundaries. So the area is as of this moment open to everyone, and yet, your muscle power community doesn't actually use it? Now I know I am not up there every day 24/7 but every weekend in the winter I am, and that is just what I see.

I would rather share than anything else, because all of us should get to enjoy the snow whether we ride a snowmobile or not. You are the one that needs to be more open minded, just like the Wenatchee World.

 

[WMC]

...
I have been riding up on the Colockum now for 5 years and guess how many times I have seen a skier or snowshoer "sharing" the groomed trail system? ZERO!, I repeat, ZERO times. The only time we see anyone else is up at the microwave towers. We the people that hike across from Mission Ridge and then ski down the ridge and drop into one of the many other bowls in Mission Ridge's boundaries. So the area is as of this moment open to everyone, and yet, your muscle power community doesn't actually use it? Now I know I am not up there every day 24/7 but every weekend in the winter I am, and that is just what I see.

I would rather share than anything else, because all of us should get to enjoy the snow whether we ride a snowmobile or not. You are the one that needs to be more open minded, just like the Wenatchee World.

Sharing does not work on the same terrain. Thus, we ask for some areas for winter recreation without snowmobiles. In our wildest dreams, our biggest Proposal, we have asked for a few percent of the acres of the forests.

In regard to Naneum Ridge State Forest, winter muscle-powered users are most interested in the areas surrounding Mission Ridge ski area. Again, a small percentage of the huge amount in the Colockum. No, you do not see skiers in the Colockum, long ago ceded to riders. However the areas along the boundaries of Mission Ridge only in recent years have been ridden so heavily by new-technology machines so as to exclude reasonable pedestrian use.

We have great mountains to provide recreation for all of us. There is room for great snowmobile riding areas as well as for muscle-powered winter recreation areas. It must start with respect of others and personal responsibility. As we work with the public land agencies for management of the winter forest for all citizens, it must be clear that there is more than one (motorized) use of the winter forest! The real but unstudied and unconsidered impacts on nature and wildlife are as well, important. Simply owning a $14k machine and having the need to push that throttle while traversing across the breadth of our public lands indeed does NOT have greater importance or trump the rights of others to safely and reasonably engage in muscle-powered recreation on public lands!

 

[LAMBOFGOD]

Sharing does not work on the same terrain. !

really???? i wonder what myself and a few skiers up in canada were doing with those beers. hell, i wonder what you would call it when you let them "borrow" my toe strap to get to the top?
the people who dont share are the ones swinging poles, digging holes in trails on blind corners and cursing everyone who doesnt do the same sport as them.
i "share" pretty much every mtn i ride here in canada, so why does it not work down there??? i highly doubt its the sledders from the stories ive heard.

i feel for you guys down there, both sledders and skiers. the backcountry is such a big place, its too bad you have to deal with people like WMC that cant look past a couple of ruts on a hill to see the endless beauty we get to enjoy.....
on that note, you guys are all welcome in bc, sledders and skiers....

 

[SLED2SHRED]

Almost seems rigged for the community meetings over access. Someone wants sledders to look bad.

 

[PowderMiner]

In a true effort to mover forward...

I am an avid backcountry snowmobiler and have been away from skiing a long time.

I apologize and deeply regret that this happened. Not only am I embarrassed and fearful of punitive recourse; but also truly feel the loss felt by the legitimate users.

The effort and commitment it takes to enjoy an area for a limited time, especially with no certainty, make it very special. That area as I understand it is very close for the users and these actions, in a sense, closed a quality area to those who have traditionally used it when available.

I agree it is vandalism, while; a rasher personality in me characterizes it as a terrorist act against the skiing community. My only hope is that the offenders “assumed” that the same rules apply to Mission as the Mill Creek drainage. They spent some time there seemingly unaware of the rules. Never the less, not at all excusable; and the damage was done.

I am a friend, coworker, neighbor, family member, and fellow wintertime sports and nature enthusiast. The vitriolic nature of the skiing vs. snowmobile community, winner take all, controversy is disheartening, to say the least. I feel your pain and would truly like good thoughtful solutions to all of our problems. There are those in both “camps” that will never be convinced or that have any desire for solutions; quite possibly addicted to controversy.

I work in the Environmental Sciences field, restoring habitat for endangered species. I have often thought that poor planning and false, lazy, and uninformed conservation actions have left a constraint of available “quality” motorized available areas. Concurrently this has left even more constraints on accessible, quality, and exclusive wintertime non-motorized areas. From the perspective of a biologist I think that the wilderness designations were short sighted and effort could have been put forth to “shape” them allowing for similar overall protected area concentrating on specific environmental protection concerns. At the same time considerations for access, not only to benefit my sport, of variable users with some thought to the eventual increases or decreases in interest.

I do not want to discredit the government or specific agencies of the past who had a wonderful vision to preserve and protect our amazing most precious space. I am however considering that there are very cool new technologies and resources such as satellite imagery, computer modeling, quantizes of data and highest level ever of researchers. It might be time to revisit the land use boundaries and varied use with a net benefit to overall environmental specifics.

The management technique of placing large blocks of area into wilderness designation may seem to benefit some and might even be good for your particular interests. But I feel that it will have a direct impact to all users in a considerably wider area than just the area “destined”; and more adversely affect user groups potentially more impinged than our own.
True management would be to have areas with levels of multi and exclusive uses most aligned with mutual benefits to the users while environmental requirements and the real impact or consequently little or negligible impact is deemed appropriate to the area.

Again, I am ashamed of the people who had little consideration of others and a disregard for the rules. I am truly remorseful for the loss of quality recreation and enjoyment by the appropriate users. I really hope for, my children’s sakes, we can first stop the hate among groups that should otherwise be amenable, and secondly; come to some solutions beneficial to, not only our groups, but to the wider public lands user community.

Best wishes,
Brett



I am going to send a similar letter, weighted to the soulution methods, to some politicians with the hope that a new visionary scientific approach to land use, conservation, and the environment will be well received, even if for only the ability for them to make points that they are concidering the environment.

 

[WMC]

I am an avid backcountry snowmobiler and have been away from skiing a long time.

I apologize and deeply regret that this happened. Not only am I embarrassed and fearful of punitive recourse; but also truly feel the loss felt by the legitimate users.

The effort and commitment it takes to enjoy an area for a limited time, especially with no certainty, make it very special. That area as I understand it is very close for the users and these actions, in a sense, closed a quality area to those who have traditionally used it when available.

I agree it is vandalism, while; a rasher personality in me characterizes it as a terrorist act against the skiing community. My only hope is that the offenders “assumed” that the same rules apply to Mission as the Mill Creek drainage. They spent some time there seemingly unaware of the rules. Never the less, not at all excusable; and the damage was done.

I am a friend, coworker, neighbor, family member, and fellow wintertime sports and nature enthusiast. The vitriolic nature of the skiing vs. snowmobile community, winner take all, controversy is disheartening, to say the least. I feel your pain and would truly like good thoughtful solutions to all of our problems. There are those in both “camps” that will never be convinced or that have any desire for solutions; quite possibly addicted to controversy.

I work in the Environmental Sciences field, restoring habitat for endangered species. I have often thought that poor planning and false, lazy, and uninformed conservation actions have left a constraint of available “quality” motorized available areas. Concurrently this has left even more constraints on accessible, quality, and exclusive wintertime non-motorized areas. From the perspective of a biologist I think that the wilderness designations were short sighted and effort could have been put forth to “shape” them allowing for similar overall protected area concentrating on specific environmental protection concerns. At the same time considerations for access, not only to benefit my sport, of variable users with some thought to the eventual increases or decreases in interest.

I do not want to discredit the government or specific agencies of the past who had a wonderful vision to preserve and protect our amazing most precious space. I am however considering that there are very cool new technologies and resources such as satellite imagery, computer modeling, quantizes of data and highest level ever of researchers. It might be time to revisit the land use boundaries and varied use with a net benefit to overall environmental specifics.

The management technique of placing large blocks of area into wilderness designation may seem to benefit some and might even be good for your particular interests. But I feel that it will have a direct impact to all users in a considerably wider area than just the area “destined”; and more adversely affect user groups potentially more impinged than our own.
True management would be to have areas with levels of multi and exclusive uses most aligned with mutual benefits to the users while environmental requirements and the real impact or consequently little or negligible impact is deemed appropriate to the area.

Again, I am ashamed of the people who had little consideration of others and a disregard for the rules. I am truly remorseful for the loss of quality recreation and enjoyment by the appropriate users. I really hope for, my children’s sakes, we can first stop the hate among groups that should otherwise be amenable, and secondly; come to some solutions beneficial to, not only our groups, but to the wider public lands user community.

Best wishes,
Brett



I am going to send a similar letter, weighted to the soulution methods, to some politicians with the hope that a new visionary scientific approach to land use, conservation, and the environment will be well received, even if for only the ability for them to make points that they are concidering the environment.

Thanks for intelligent and thoughtful discussion. We have similar values as you express.

Most backcountry skiers, snowshoers, hybrid snowmobile/ skiers, are not striving to create more Wilderness. WMC is not responsible for the Proposed Wilderness- was not our goal-, but has supported it since it helps with our goal for winter non-motorized areas along the Teanaway crest. To be clear, our primary purpose is for designation of winter non-motorized areas.

Current Wilderness is usually not accessible, although skiers go there on longer trips. Some relatively small accessible areas for skiers/ non-motorized use would have a tremendous benefit to the muscle-powered winter recreationists in WA who likely outnumber snowmobiles registered by over 10 to 1. The effort of the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition Proposal was for designation of winter non-motorized areas along the pristine and unroaded crest of the Wenatchee Mountains. Part of the concept also was to move the snowmobile boundary down away from the Wilderness Boundary that is famous for intrusions so that USFS could ride along a road for enforcement.

After the discussions, WMC produced other smaller Proposals and promoted the idea of collaboration and even ideas such as huts along the Teanaway crest for both snowmobile areas and for muscle-powered areas. Wilderness designation would take collaboration and huts out of the picture. We had prominent folks involved, USFS interested in such collaboration but snowmobile riders have not been interested.

What is demonstrated from some in the snowmobile community is unwillingness to recognize other citizens' legitimate use of the forest. Add to that the incredible narrow and aggressive view that anyone opposing 100% use of the forest for snowmobile riding is just not ok... (insert many descriptors previously given).

What is not understood is that the current unregulated offroad snowmobile free-for-all was not considered or designated, especially on the Wenatchee. In the future it is likely that the OWNF will get the directive to do winter planning. It would be great if representatives of the snowmobile community could act as if they understand the law and civil processes (sums up how the forest is managed). This snomo free-for-all will go down someday; the aggro snomo side is not making any friends in the mainstream. The goal of WMC and all of the winter non-motorized advocates that I know is to have snowmobile riding on the forest, but managed and designated, along with designated winter non-motorized areas.

We have a wonderful Forest and enough great country for both of our uses.

 

[yammadog]

Almost seems rigged for the community meetings over access. Someone wants sledders to look bad.

This is why debating with WMC over anything is pointless. He fine tunes his side of the debate and uses it. DO NOT INTERACT WITH HIM!!

When I went to the FS meeting in Cle Elum for the Teanaway stuff and the FS said they can only recommend NEW wilderness and cannot reduce or move the lines in I pretty much said screw it. Pointless almost. The meetings need to be attended, but if their job is justified by that kind of mandate, they are obligated to add more closure. And tools like WMC see that as their in on chanting crap that helps their agenda.

I am commited to civil disobedience for future action in making a point on "public" access to "public" lands.

 

[yammadog]

Thanks for intelligent and thoughtful discussion. We have similar values as you express.

We have a wonderful Forest and enough great country both of our uses.

B...S.... You are so full of it. After the last 2 years of your crap, I'm calling you out. Your position always shows itself at some point. You are anti sledder and just like the FS, the only suggestion you have is closure to more sledding area.

 

[snojunkee]

framed

Almost seems rigged for the community meetings over access. Someone wants sledders to look bad.

exactly what i was thinking.

 

[snojunkee]

Is This Vandalism?

http://www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/23375

quit whining and go ski somewhere else! when I'm snowmobiling and the area I want to ride is tracked up, I simply go somewhere else. from looking at the tracks made at mission ridge my conclusion is that these tracks were made by someone who wanted to make it look like sledders tore the whole place up. there is no evidence that these were not skiers on sleds. OPEN YOUR MIND, AND USE IT.

 

[WMC]

...

The effort and commitment it takes to enjoy an area for a limited time, especially with no certainty, make it very special. That area as I understand it is very close for the users and these actions, in a sense, closed a quality area to those who have traditionally used it when available.
...
...
...
...
True management would be to have areas with levels of multi and exclusive uses most aligned with mutual benefits to the users while environmental requirements and the real impact or consequently little or negligible impact is deemed appropriate to the area.
...

I am going to send a similar letter, weighted to the soulution methods, to some politicians with the hope that a new visionary scientific approach to land use, conservation, and the environment will be well received, even if for only the ability for them to make points that they are concidering the environment.

Thank you Brett, good words. It is impressive that you posted this on the Wenatchee World and Wenatchee Outdoors websites. The points above- we are agreed. You have described what WMC and WWA and most non-motorized folks seek: the reasonable management for various uses of the forest and consideration of nature and wildlife.

We are fortunate to have the Wenatchee Mountains, where there is enough great country for all of us.

 

[trikerider]

If I were trying to enjoy this area without having to listen to motorized vehicles the first thing to shut down is the ski lift. At times it is so loud you can hear it for miles.

 

[newtrout]

We are fortunate to have the Wenatchee Mountains, where there is enough great country for all of us.

I couldn't agree more, Rob.

Very well said, Brett. Sadly, the bureaucracy of our systems rarely allow for logic-based decisions. At this point I have no choice but to try and play the game that the USFS has given us, especially when I am facing the loss of several of my favorite basins to Wilderness.

 

[diamonddave]

Is it possible the damage done by "Snowmobilers" was actually done by the side seeking more Non-motorized area?


No....that could never happen.

Good to see YD come around.

 

[WMC]

Existing trail and road-based motorized recreation on the Naneum Ridge State Forest is not under question. The DNR officials stated excactly that at the meeting. There is an agreement among State, Federal, and private landowners in the are to maintain 100 miles of previously established "Green Dot Roads" which are also legal for four wheelers.

WMC is interested in asking for winter non-motorized designation on less than three sections of State land contiguous to the Mission Ridge Ski Area in Chelan County. That is, less than 2000 acres of the 131,000-acre Naneum Ridge State Forest . The areas are easily accessed from the Mission Ridge parking lot, 14 miles above Wenatchee. Access is available on the USFS Clara Lake Trail the area has beautiful open forest and also open slopes of all angle suitable for all levels of winter recreation at elevations roughly 4600 ft to 6700 ft.

 

[yammadog]

Existing trail and road-based motorized recreation on the Naneum Ridge State Forest is not under question. The DNR officials stated excactly that at the meeting. There is an agreement among State, Federal, and private landowners in the are to maintain 100 miles of previously established "Green Dot Roads" which are also legal for four wheelers.

WMC is interested in asking for winter non-motorized designation on less than three sections of State land contiguous to the Mission Ridge Ski Area in Chelan County. That is, less than 2000 acres of the 131,000-acre Naneum Ridge State Forest . The areas are easily accessed from the Mission Ridge parking lot, 14 miles above Wenatchee. Access is available on the USFS Clara Lake Trail the area has beautiful open forest and also open slopes of all angle suitable for all levels of winter recreation at elevations roughly 4600 ft to 6700 ft.

WMC...how about you LEAVE the snowmobiler site and go back to your non motorized cave!

Over the last 2 years I have yet to hear you say anything about where you think sledding is acceptable offtrail in open alpine area along the wenatchee crest. Only where it needs to be closed and ADD to the MILLIONS of EXISTING non motorized area that you ALREADY have all to your selfish self!

That would be something productive you could add to the conversation and maybe just maybe give yourself a little less tree humping standing in my eyes.

 

[2Thetopp]

. Access is available on the USFS Clara Lake Trail the area has beautiful open forest and also open slopes of all angle suitable for all levels of winter recreation at elevations roughly 4600 ft to 6700 ft.

Thanks for the heads up, this is an area that I've not ridden, can't wait to give it a try.

 

[yammadog]

less than 2000 acres of the 131,000-acre Naneum Ridge State Forest . .

WMC...please answer this direct question.

Of the 131,000 acres of that forest, what is open to motorized and non-motorized as it exists? what is actually ridable motorized terrain? and what percentage is open to non-motorized?

 

[ruffryder]

this gong show is back???

Why are you guys engaging this man? All he does is use this to better formulate his arguments.... He is using us... while he twists the knife in our backs...

Lets get smarter about this...

oh yah, THANKS FOR THE DISCUSSION!!! LOL

 

[yammadog]

oh yah, THANKS FOR THE DISCUSSION!!! LOL

no thank you....hey, how can we better share pictures of your sister? There's plenty of room for all of us, just you can't bring any party favors, so I guess you aren't allowed...

Do you suppose if WMC had a sister she'd have hairy armpits?