Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

  • Don't miss out on all the fun! Register on our forums to post and have added features! Membership levels include a FREE membership tier.

For those that are for Government Healthcare

In the early 1800's Congress was considering
a bill to appropriate tax dollars for the widow
of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful
speeches had been made in support of this
bill. It seemed that everyone in the House
favored it. The Speaker of the House was just
about to put the question to a vote, when
Davy Crockett, famous frontiersman and then
Congressman from Tennessee, rose to his feet.

“Mr. Speaker, I have as much respect for the
memory of the deceased and as much sympathy
for the suffering of the living as any man in
this House, but we must not permit our respect
for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the
living to lead us into an act of injustice to the
balance of the living. I will not go into an
argument to prove that Congress has no power
to appropriate this money as an act of charity.
Every member upon this floor knows it. We
have the right, as individuals to give away as
much of our own money as we please in
charity, but as members of Congress we have
no right to so appropriate a dollar of the public
money. Some eloquent appeals have been made
to us upon the ground that it is a debt due
the deceased. Sir, this is no debt. We cannot
without the grossest corruption, appropriate
this money as the payment of a debt. We have
not the semblance of authority to appropriate
it as a charity. I cannot vote for this bill, but
I will give one week's pay, and if every member
of Congress will do the same, it will amount
to more than the bill asks.”

There was silence on the floor of the House
as Crockett took his seat. When the bill was put
to a vote, instead of passing unanimously as
had been expected, it received only a few votes.

The next day a friend approached Crockett
and asked why he spoken against a bill for
such a worthy cause. In reply, Crockett related
the following story:

Just a few years before, he had voted to spend
$20,000.00 of public money to help the victims
of a terrible fire in Georgetown. When the
legislative session was over, Crockett made a
trip back home to do some campaigning for his
re-election. In his travels he encountered one of
his constituents, a man by the name of Horatio
Bunce. Mr. Bunce bluntly informed Crockett,
“I voted for you the last time. I shall not vote
for you again.”


Crockett, feeling he had served his constituents
well, was stunned. He inquired as to what he
had done to so offend Mr. Bunce.

Bunce replied, “You gave a vote last winter
which shows that either you have not capacity
to understand the Constitution, or that you are
wanting in the honesty and firmness to be
guided by it. The Constitution, to be worth
anything, must be held sacred, and rigidly
observed in all its provisions.”

“I take the papers from Washington and read
very carefully all the proceedings of Congress.
My papers say that last winter you voted for a
bill to appropriate $20,000.00 to some sufferers
by a fire. Well, Colonel, where do you find in
the Constitution any authority to give away public
money in charity? No Colonel, Congress has no

right to give charity. Individual members may
give as much of their own money as they
please, but they have no right to touch a dollar
of the public money for that purpose.”

“The people have delegated to Congress, by
the Constitution, the power to do certain things.
To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay
moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond
this is usurpation, and a violation of the
Constitution. You have violated the Constitution
in what I consider to be a vital point. It is a
precedent fraught with danger to the country, for
when Congress once begins to stretch its power
beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is
no limit to it, and no security for the People.”

“I could not answer him,” said Crockett. “I was so
fully convinced that he was right.” I said to him,
“Well, my friend, you hit the nail upon the head
when you said I had not sense enough to understand
the Constitution. If you will forgive me
and vote for me again, if I ever vote for another
unconstitutional law, I wish I may be shot.”

After finishing the story, Crockett said, “Now sir,
you know why I made that speech yesterday.
There is one thing now to which I will call your
attention. You remember that I proposed to give
a weeks pay? There are in that House many very
wealthy men, men who think nothing of spending
a weeks pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner
or a wine party when they have something to
accomplish by it. Some of these same men made
beautiful speeches upon the debt of gratitude
which the country owed the deceased, yet not
one of them responded to my proposition.
Money with them is nothing but trash when it
is to come out of the people. But it is the one
great thing for which most of them are striving,
and many of them sacrifice honor, integrity,
and justice to obtain it.”

The only legitimate
purpose of civil
government is to
safeguard the
God-given rights of its
citizens; namely, life,
liberty, and property.
Only those duties,
functions, and
programs specifically
assigned to the federal
government by the
Constitution should be
funded. We call upon
Congress and the
President to stop all
federal expenditures
which are not specifically
authorized by the
U.S. Constitution, and
to restore to the states
those powers, programs,
and sources of revenue
that the federal
government has
usurped.
 
The question was not a disection of the legislation it was when did you draw the line, are we to assume the line has not been drawn and you are in total agreement with the actions of the federal government? Swampy:beer;

Please accept my request that you have a happy Christmass




At what point does the Government have too much say into your life? Where is your line in the sand? For me it is health care. What is yours?



You know, the more I think about it, the more a single payer (government PAID, not run) system is prefered.

If we were to get away from employer paid insurance, which I think we should do, an interesting thing is going to happen. The healthy people will be able to afford health care, while the sick won't. Now who is the sick? Well, yah, poor people generally are more sick. But if insurance companies are able to asses an individual and charge them according to risk (like car insurance) is this something we will really want?

What about for generative diseases? Like breast cancer? Will they charge families / woman more because of family history? What about heart conditions? Diabetes. The amount paid in premiums and copays by some of these individuals is not greater then their costs.

What about children? Should we really restrict care to a child when the parents are not financially capable of getting insurance? Is it the childs fault? Should they be punished for their parents mistakes / ineptitude?

As to everyones examples of government systems that don't work.. They don't work because they are underfunded. The cost of the service to individuals provided by the government does not represent the true cost of the service to the government. Look at UPS vs USPS. I can get a package shipped across the country faster and cheaper using USPS. Why is this? Look at Medicare / Medicade, it is already in the red. Why, because they don't bring in enough money to cover the costs. Look at what they pay out to doctors. It is much lower then private insurance. Well, if you increased the payments out per service, and you don't have enough money coming in to already cover the costs, then all you are doing is making the deficit that much worse.

People love to bring up the inefficiency of the government and seem to draw the conclusion that private business / companies exibit no / little waste. I don't think that is the case. All large companies have large amounts of waste. Though being government run, you don't have to worry about making large profits / advertising, and do federal entities pay taxes? I don't think they do, so there is a large savings there also.

I like government out of my business and it definitely is too much in mine, but I think given the enormous expenses in today's health care industry that it is inhuman for people to go without the care that they need. Strong note, I am saying need, like need to live, urgent care, preventative care. We could get into an argument what that actually means, but it would mean a lot different things to everyone.

What are your thoughts? I am hoping for something a little more then the standard attacks...
 
Grrrrr Have to spread the reputation around. What the hell took you so long to get onboard, you must have been breastfed is the only answer!!! Swampy:D:D:beer;:beer;





yeah me too!!!!:mad: err uhhh wait i was only 1 yr old... ahh i was already fed up!:D whats up swampy my compatriot!!!!!!!:beer;:beer;:beer;:D[/QUOTE]
 
"People love to bring up the inefficiency of the government and seem to draw the conclusion that private business / companies exibit no / little waste. I don't think that is the case. All large companies have large amounts of waste. Though being government run, you don't have to worry about making large profits / advertising, and do federal entities pay taxes? I don't think they do, so there is a large savings there also." Ruffy

So does that mean that less tax money is going to the government then?
 
While I think reform is needed, I see nothing in this bill to make it happen,
in the end it ended up being nothing but payoff's for votes...Where is there
anything in the bill that will provide coverage to the "31Million" un-insured?
The only thing I can find is a requirement to buy insurance or get fined....If
people cannot afford it now, how will this help? even with kickbacks....
but, to avoid paying a fine, I now have to somehow share my private health
info with the Govt.....not so sure I like that!
No Tort reform, really nothing to streamline costs....just another govt
program ran by govt workers essentially doing nothing....except sticking it
to the working man via higher taxes and higher premiums....
 
Here are the main problems with the bill... 1) It does nothing to decrease the costs of healthcare 2) There will be no increase in people being covered (lets see should I pay a $750 fine or $6,600 in insurance... let me think)

Healthcare reform should have addressed 1) Pre-existing conditions 2) Health insurance portability and limits on coverage... It should not have messed with everyone's insurance (if passed I lose my HSA plan with my saving's account and I get BS coverage I DON'T WANT!!!!!

When it comes to federal run health insurance.. Indian Health, Medicaid, Tri-Care, and VA all are a mess but the bill does NOTHING to fix the problems in these plans... Medicare is going broke and NOTHING IN THIS BILL resolves this (actually makes it worse).. oh yea and we get to start paying for it right away but benefits do not kick in for several years (but remember the dumbocrats are telling you, "everyday there is not a healthcare reform people die" so why is it not going into effect immediately (answer it is because they want to collect some money early so they don't add to the federal debt.... but the plan once in full operation is not substainable.. means OBe and the rest get to raise our taxes again (they will raise ALL of our taxes that have health insurance next year)... I could go on and on...
 
"People love to bring up the inefficiency of the government and seem to draw the conclusion that private business / companies exibit no / little waste. I don't think that is the case. All large companies have large amounts of waste. Though being government run, you don't have to worry about making large profits / advertising, and do federal entities pay taxes? I don't think they do, so there is a large savings there also." Ruffy

So does that mean that less tax money is going to the government then?

hmmm.. I have a bridge in New York for sale... okay I will try to explain.. MOST healthcare insurance companies are not for profit. The US Government pays for advertising all the time (NHRA and the US ARMY ring a bell?) sure companies have waste but nothing in the scope of the federal government... keep in mind the people that work for the government work to maintain and "grow" their departments... in a private company you look to grow and streamline the company to either increase revenues or increase profits..
 
Did I fail to mention I will not be paying for Sh!t. Come and get me!
Same goes for snowest. I ain't paying $$$$. :eek:
 
MOST healthcare insurance companies are not for profit.
Not sure on the not for profit of insurance companies.... Aetna is a large one, they are for profit, and I think Blue Cross is too.. well, some of the licensees are and some are not.
The US Government pays for advertising all the time (NHRA and the US ARMY ring a bell?)
So you say that the NHRA and the US ARMY means that the US govt pays all the time? I guess some of them do, but it is a very small amount of the whole system. They do advertise for jobs also though.. But I don't see the IRS advertising for their services, nor the FBI, nor the CIA, nor any of the other federally mandated programs. They are monopolies, there is no one to compete with them.
sure companies have waste but nothing in the scope of the federal government...
So what do you use to compare waste in the federal govt to private govt? Just your own intuition?? Is this something that you feel??
keep in mind the people that work for the government work to maintain and "grow" their departments... in a private company you look to grow and streamline the company to either increase revenues or increase profits..
Where do you get that from? Businesses all want to maintain and grow their departments. I have yet to be in a company that wants their department to be removed.. Govt cuts cost routinely as well, like when it is mandated to drop 15 percent of their costs, they do it and find a way.. Their budgets are not fixed.

The causality is different, and the feedback mechanisms are different, but you make quite a bit of assumptions as to the mentality of the people in each group.
 
Originally Posted by plumnuts
The US Government pays for advertising all the time (NHRA and the US ARMY ring a bell?)

Damn it all to hell....Now that Kenyan infiltrator and his Commie comardes have taken over the National Hotrod Association?

Whats next....Polaris, Harley, Cheese?:eek:
 
I'm suprised that no Canadian riders have chimed in on this thread?

Ok, here goes....

Canuck health care seems to get the crappy end of the stick because of a few horror stories, etc. I will admit there are some.

Three years ago, I became ill and had to have 12 surgeries in 14 months and some followup ones up to a year ago. They tried their hardest to kill me, but failed to do so. Now I am as fit as I've been for 20 years and will be 50 in July. My total bill for all this? 0$

In my opinion, because health care is shared by all and needed by all, why shouldn't it be included as infrastructure such as roadways and bridges are? Roll it into the general tax revenue and be done with it. I simply cannot understand why government health care has to be equated with a bureaucrat deciding how your doctor takes care of you. That makes no sense. It only makes sense when the private insurance companies make decisions based on the bottom dollar rather than the patients needs.

my 2c
stu
 
When the guvmunt takes from the working people to support the non working people, the working people soon will stop working too and then the entire mess just collapses. We are not far from that right now.

I quit working at age 48. I am now 60. I could do what I did because I "planned" I was "financially responsible", I "lived below my means" and I still do. Not many people are willing to do that in the generation behind me. That is what really is wrong with this country right now. Everyone thinks "they deserve a life". How about earning your own life and not thinking it is someone else's responsibility to take care of you.

You know what is really really sad. Both my RMK 800s are now ten years old. For some reason though, they still go the same places as the newest sleds made.
 
I quit working at age 48. I am now 60. I could do what I did because I "planned" I was "financially responsible", I "lived below my means" and I still do. Not many people are willing to do that in the generation behind me. That is what really is wrong with this country right now. Everyone thinks "they deserve a life". How about earning your own life and not thinking it is someone else's responsibility to take care of you.
Agreed, though, one thing I would add, is that the generation behind you is part of the reason why your generation has prospered so much. Consumer spending drives this country (IMO it shouldn't). The generation behind you was driving this country. If they saved and conserved their money, the US would not have shown the growth that we have. Though, I kind of think we would have been better off if they would have saved and conserved. It is difficult for some to save right now, especially when savings accounts return nill.. Though, a penny saved is a penny earned, as they say.

You know what is really really sad. Both my RMK 800s are now ten years old. For some reason though, they still go the same places as the newest sleds made.
Not sad, you just realized that the newest and the best is not a necessity. :beer;

Good for you and your early retirement, I admire that, and I am currently working towards that as well. Maybe not early retirement, just being financially able to retire at that point in my life. Then it will be gravy time!!
 
Premium Features



Back
Top