Explorer kit owners beware!

[TallBoysWRF]

OK, if you have an explorer kit, and have the round cone style spacers connecting the ski to the brake caliper mounts, BEWARE! I have this style on my Yamaha WR400 and it has broken two sets of forks now. First time out I bottomed out the front suspension, and the cones failed, breaking off the top of my caliper mount (see pictures). I diagnosed the situation as the cones are too small of a diameter and that caused the failure. Denis at AD Boivin thought I didn't get the bolts torqued properly. I went along with that and he sent me new parts and I bought new forks because I never got a response out of Denis when I asked him to help me with the forks. I made sure I torqued the bolts to the proper spec and when checking with an allen wrench, I was actually able to tighten them a little more, so they were definitely torqued the first time. So I figure OK, I'll give it another shot.

I purchased my kit though Mike Comisac, and on his "Tour de North" he stopped by my town. On the way over to meet up with him, I casually jumped the snow bank at the end of the road to get the trail (see pics). I bottomed out the front end again and what do you know, I bend the darned cones again. This time it didn't completely break my caliper mount off, but it bent the crap out of it. I took it over and showed Mike, and apon examination of his bikes, about all of his are doing the same thing, though not to the extent of mine. Mike worked with me to get a solid plate machined to replace the cones, so kudos to Mike!

The damage to my upper caliper mount was that it twisted it, and bent it slightly up. I was able to untwist it, but it was bent up far enough that I could not get the brake caliper back on. In the process of heating the end of the fork and trying to bend it back down slightly, it snapped off. I had a feeling it would, but it was useless in the summer when bent. So, the deign flaw has destroyed two forks on my bike now, and I haven't heard one peep out of Denis at AD Boivin in regards to helping me replace the second set. With my "block" installed I won't be breaking any more forks, but that doesn't fix my broken fork.

If you have the cone spacers, my recommendation would be to start contacting AD Boivin and demanding they fix the kits before your fork break and you kill yourself because the ski completely folded around the axle. Hopefully I can save you the expense/headache I've been going through.

 

[buffaloHAWK]

that would explain it....

did you actually clear the house in the 4th pic? or did you come up short? looks like the price of forks on ebay will be going up after winter when everyone needs to put there brakes back on!!!!

i was wondering what kind of failures the dirtbike kits would bring on to the bikes? i personally thought wed be seeing gernaded motors and drive train tranny issues, not suspension stuff. glad you are ok and hopefully some imediate changes on adb's part will be made.....

 

[Carbon Dreams]

Yet another reason to buy 2Moto. No disrespect to AD, but the 2Moto stuff is nearly bomb proof. There seems to be enough room in the conversion business for 2 solid companies. I hope that AD can get there, but 2Moto is light years ahead.

 

[mccbrothers]

To far of a drop back bracket

After spending a lot of time on various bikes with explorer kits I felt like the drop back bracket was to far back, the machines are too nose heavy and with that much set back it is putting too much leverage on the caliper mount, I am going to make a tripled up drop back for my kx 500 that will only be about 1 inch drop back and try that. I think it won't turn as well in tight but high speed will be better, most of all it should take away from the possiblilty of caliper mounts braking, should solve the problem. I know Denis Boivin will try hard to make things right with you. But it is hard to say if it is there falt all together or if you are one crazy mo fo launching a kit to hard that may be more for explorering. I hope you get running again and have know more problems. Good Luck

 

[Blaser]

Explorer buyer broke his lower fork tube in Cranbrook, B.C. also.

Solid plates and less "trail" in the ski mount will only prolong the inevitable.
Bracing on both fork legs is the only real solution. Another reason 2Moto has so many patents.

(post edited for not bieng nice)

 

[mccbrothers]

Keep trying

You sure are trying hard to sell that 2 moto, hope you don't sound too desperate on here, may turn possible customers off, but I do like your double fork tube set up, probably a better connection than the explorer front, but Boivin will get their problems fixed, look at the Hawks, those things rip shart!!!

 

[Blaser]

You sure are trying hard to sell that 2 moto, hope you don't sound too desperate on here, may turn possible customers off, but I do like your double fork tube set up, probably a better connection than the explorer front, but Boivin will get their problems fixed, look at the Hawks, those things rip shart!!!

No doubt about the Hawks. They do rip- and from what I've seen you are one of the few that know how to set them up right. (and ride them to their potential).

Hopefully Boivin has a different support tactic in mind with their Explorer customers than they did with their Hawk Dealers. Problem is, that if they replace one guys fork tube, they'll have to do them all. There are always limiting factors, but in the end you either stand behind your product 100%, or you don't.

 

[snowhawkaddict]

Baby "back" steps, real cheddar not processed!

TallBoysWRF,

I see your announcement as the warning you meant it to be, not a dig on the product.
Hopefully AD B will address it properly and fore warn "all" it's product users should be simple to accomplish.

Slamming snowbikes!

12/17/2007 post #8, the slam that inspired me.

Quote
BTW, if anyone</span> want's to know how the 800 Snow Hawk doesn't against a 550 Husaberg RadiX, or against a YZF 450 RadiX, they've now been lined up at Crow's Nest in Canada, and in McCall. Let's just say it was not even fair for the SH...
It'll be even worse for them when we get to 65 horsepower. Or 80, or 100. Of course, it's hard to beat a horse that's dying it's own death
Bret Blaser

Source
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthr...ighlight=2moto

Still waiting for the video proof of that.

Now,

2Moto and dare I say AD Boivin should have applauded the Snow Hawks capabilities and only pointed out the price difference easy distinction for the potential buyer, then the conversions performance would have sold themselves.

Telling people what you think they need to hear so you can get one more sale is just lame, but hey If your too lazy to learn your competition (2Moto) or perfect your product (AD B).

It seems every time there is smell of blood, last time being the coming demise of the Snow Hawk, this time a "impatient revenue driven" engineering flaw the car salesmen appear!

In this internet/forum day and age it is suicidal of any company to use the customers as it's ginea pigs as you are seeing, only two months into the season what will be next?

Simple solution to this, replay Oct 2006 Dirt Rider, "We test the snowbikes", this time include all, not just the ones who payed for admission!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAy02pHuggg

Oh to step back and reintroduce an entry level Snow Hawk, as the word got out the used machine market would force any accessory/conversion to putt up or shut t e f c up!

 

[877snowhawk]

sorry guys for not giving update on my part,,, i was up at tug hill with my 15 yr old son doing some hard core trail riding,,, from whooped out trails to groomed trails,, also we were able to go to a snow cross race and get some racers to get them out on the track, was a great time, and its a good test on the system . ad boivin has done lots of testing as well as i have, this problem 100% results from loose bolts,, if you do not follow directions ,put loctite and torque the bolts , this will happen. it has happend happend to me (never broke anything) but when i made sure to have things correct, i never had problems with since, including this weekend, and there was a guy going for it big on the snow cross track. ad boivin test every day , and if they have faults they will fix and do a recall, they are not bashful on this, we all want people to be safe on any machine, so check your machine, no matter what you ride and be safe out there,,, sorry we dont live in a perfect world where NOTHING breaks,,, but as we all know " have toys / will break" and with nearing 1000 units on the market we all watch for the 1st thing that will fail.

so thanks for the rider input and we always look for inprovments, and trust me, ad boivin and myself are working VERY hard EVERY day to inprove this great new sport of snowbiking for you!!!

and

p.s to mr blasser.. i have too much class to bash your product, but if you do it to us again, i will unload all the stories and PICs of the 2moto's failed parts. it happens we both know it, things break! so relax and get some class, and do your job promote your product on what its good for, you do sound desperate when your doing this...we are a special breed and need to stick together as one ski, and build in numbers..... and we all are still waiting to hear how many units you have out there.. if in 4 years you only have 100 or 200 units out there,,, less chances of things braking compared to 1000 in the 1st year. so lets hear how many??????



mike

 

[Dobber1]

After spending a lot of time on various bikes with explorer kits I felt like the drop back bracket was to far back, the machines are too nose heavy and with that much set back it is putting too much leverage on the caliper mount, I am going to make a tripled up drop back for my kx 500 that will only be about 1 inch drop back and try that. I think it won't turn as well in tight but high speed will be better, most of all it should take away from the possiblilty of caliper mounts braking, should solve the problem. I know Denis Boivin will try hard to make things right with you. But it is hard to say if it is there falt all together or if you are one crazy mo fo launching a kit to hard that may be more for explorering. I hope you get running again and have know more problems. Good Luck

End of discussion.....nailed it!

 

[TCSKIBIKE]

I know the WR bikes Pretty well, They start with a very slack head angle and a very soft suspension setup. This is done to make the bike for stable at high speeds over uneven terrain. My WR was super stable going straight! When I went to my KTM450 it seemed very unstable compared to it.

My suggestion for the next time you install the product is to raise the fork in your crown in an attempt to steepen the head angle and do all you can to stop the fork from bottoming. You can do this by changing to a stiffer spring, adding some oil to the legs or changing to a heavier weight oil.

The bottoming in what is making the parts fail, if the fork can dissipate this energy gracefully you could stop the failures.

With a fork that bottoms easily, you are in danger of breaking the bike in the summer too. Please do this before you go on a mission to bash the company that is trying to keep the SnowBike industry alive.

2Moto you are better off with AD in the game.


My 2 cents like Tony said.. Reintroduce a budget Hawk because ideally its what everyone who buys a conversion kit really wants.

 

[Blaser]

man you guys are touchy. Re-read my post-
first line is an informational fact
second two lines are a solution for Explorer owners. We've tested this and know what has to happen.
the rest was edited for not being nice. Time to do things differently.

The angle in this thread is to put pressure on ADB to step up and support the sport, as Tony always says.

Addict- I wish I could understand 1/2 of what you type. Sorry, maybe it's just me. Maybe I need to read more Shakespeare. Thanks for digging up some past digs of mine. I do have a few. Let's not go there with your digs, or getting banned, o.k.?
I believe I posted that dig after we had some good Hawk lineups. We were all egging each other on. It was a few rides later when Bernie schooled us on a good powder climb with his 159" 800 Hawk. I do also believe I just stated that Hawks rip, and that Cailen is an awesome rider. Not sure where you thought I was digging on the Hawk.
And yes, I do have videos- but I also rode a Hawk (after the video was shot) that I really liked. He'd nailed the set up. After that I didn't see the need to post a video and start another brawl. Look around again, you'll find some nice things I've said about the Hawks.

877Snowhawk-
Glad to hear your working on a solution.
TallBoysWRF said ADB has a "design flaw". Addict said it as well. I didn't even say it, and I'm bashing?
Parts break because of bad engineering, bad manufacturing, or abuse. We've had parts break from a bad supplier. We immediately stopped selling, and shipped temporary solutions to our buyers. Then I personally drove and replaced 90% of our customers parts with new replacements. One trip I spent 47 hours driving between customers/Dealers. The rest were shipped out. 2Moto stands behind its product 100%.

 

[adrenalinejky]

We need unity in the one ski world. When the 2 skiers get a hold of this info they will bash it to death. We will have a bad rap before enough people get it in there hands and try it for themselves. My own experience has been very positive, and I always give out all the companys that make a one ski kit. I'm sure 2 Moto makes a great kit. I personally have a Explorer. I would love to try a 2 Moto. It would be interesting to compare the 2. I would not be interested in comparing them just to bash one or the other. Its a personal choice on witch kit is going to work for yourself. So please stop the Hating.

A race to see witch kit is better is ridicilious. I bought my kit to go where I could not go on a sled. And it has proven that to me. Most of us on here ride for enjoyment. not to race. If I wanted to race again I would wait until summer.

 

[powderrushsh]

Thanks for the Hawk plug Blaser. Actually my Hawk is only a 144".

Update on weight:

Explorer vs. 2moto. Both on 550 Husaberg. Bike hanging from digital scale with 2-2moto owners and 2-Explorer owners present. (and a box of beer) Explorer is 22.4# heavier

I know that the day of the weigh in at 2moto, the Explorer just came out of Mikes trailer and had ice and snow build up on the bike/track. Thus explaining the inaccurate measurement at Bret'S shop.

Japanese bikes will weigh more then that, as the Explorer keep's the stock airbox in place.

If weight is such a concern anyone can buy pod filters and install them. $30.00 is approximately the cost.

Cost: Bret you forgot to mention the exchange rate in your dig. When you exchange the $4140 in canadian dollars to U.S. dollars it comes out to $3234.00. For a difference of more then $1000.00 not $140.00

You should know this after all the kits you have imported to Canada. The last one I saw being imported was $4700.00 u.s. equal to $6016.00 can. dollars

In your reference to the mastercard commercial. Some of the things I have heard you tell people at motorcycle/snowmobile shows that we have both attended, have been "priceless"

A.D. Boivin:

Most of the opinions of A.D. Boivin on this forum are negative in regards to the Hawk.

A.D. Boivin the first to admit that they have made mistakes with the Hawk. That is the reason why they have went to distributors for the Explorer.

I am a distributor and my dealer sold the kit in Cranbrook. The only such failure in my territory to date.

In speaking to my dealer I was told Denis Boivin is personally looking after this.

In early January, I received a service bulletin on how to prevent this situation from occuring. Which is basically only a maintenance issue. I have contacted all my dealers and cutomers with this information.

A.D. Boivin is actively looking after this, and improving the Explorer every day.

It took 2-moto 13 years design to be where they are now. Imagine the Explorer in 12 more years.

Any bashers should check out the oem pages on Snowest ,they are full of problems, from each and every manufacturer.

If any one needs more infoon this issue or any other information on the Explorer, please contact Mike at 877 snowhawk or in Canada, Bernie at 403 330 4040



p.s. to Bret:
I remember a post from Mike saying how he looked forward to meeting and riding with you. He said he couldnt think of a better way to spend his birthday.

I wonder if he ever wants to ride with you again?

 

[877snowhawk]

special thanks to TCSKIBIKE and Bernie from powder rush!!!

tcs,,, thanks for input on that bike, it points out things to me i never knew, and your right, people need to set up the bike depending how they ride, and i do remember tim saying to me he did bottom out before he hit, and ad boivin has done lots of testing and never had this happen, and i have also, and only had a slight bend in my bolt, because it became loose.

ty also bret,,,,for explaining things "happen" and as you went and replaced and changed design or whatever you had to do to make your product right. that is all of our goal, so any time we can help anyone,,, please contact me or bernie....

i am glad we all can work together again! lets keep it this way!


thanks
mike

 

[Blaser]

I agree with adrenalinjky. Well said.

Powderrushsh- I had fun hanging out with your son at the show. He just about wore out the seat on the Aprilia 550. I'd guess he wants one...

To clarify, it was 50+ degrees when Mike was here, and he hadn't ridden his RMZ for a day because it was inside Boodockers shop getting nitrous installed. No snow/ice in any of the photos or video from the weigh in. We even checked fuel levels on both RMZs and Bergs to be fair. Weight could be off by 20+ pounds just in fuel. (not saying you are )

2Moto Canadian MSRP is $4999. We're now playing some arbitrage. I'm likely the only non-Canadian who wants the Dollar back at par.

I'd swear you had a 159 on your Hawk that last time we rode Corbin. I remember being drop-jawed at how much track you had. I'll have to check the photos.

To all those offering advice about being nice on the net, thanks. Being competitive, and having fun (typing it properly) are tough.

 

[powderrushsh]

Bret

That was not my son it was Lloyd's.

What 14 year old would not want a Aprillia it's a cool bike.

Lloyd had the 159" you and him were talking in the meadow while I was riding my 144".

I agree about any variables when weighing bikes. That is why we drained both bikes of fuel and made sure antifreeze was topped up on both. Even the handgaurds were the same make and model.


I know my 'Berg had fork oil in the tubes not sure about the other 'Berg

See ya in the "steep and deep".

 

[Blaser]

Thanks for the humor-

Sorry I got you mixed up with Lloyd. He's got a good kid that will go a long ways. I was impressed with him.

 

[snowhawk jockey]

I know my 'Berg had fork oil in the tubes not sure about the other 'Berg

See ya in the "steep and deep".

I thought only sledders counted ounces!! A liter is only 33.8 oz...

I wondered about the durability of the brake tabs if the forks bottomed out. The right torque of the mounting bolts will have little effect when the forks bottom out HARD. I dont think Tallboy could change his results from the bottom out, with torque on bolts. I will look at the 2moto ski mount again for more evaluation.

 

[Blaser]

I will look at the 2moto ski mount again for more evaluation.

More info available here- http://www.2moto.com/about_products/features/fork_extension_assembly/

Remember- "The RadiX® Conversion Kit and RogueTM Snow Bike embody concepts protected by U.S. Patents 6112840, 6321864, 6382338, 6431301, 6626258, Canadian Patents 2321860, 2345490, 2555108, and European Patent 1056639 – all exclusively licensed to 2Moto, Inc. Additional patents pending.”

Only trying to be informative