Disappointing turnout at sled movie premiere

[Jaynelson]

You've got to understand the different mentality of both as well.

Skiing... Lets go hang in traffic, then wait in lift lines, then hang out with thousands of other people... basically every city gaper feels comfy in that situation.

Sledding... you're on your own with a few buddies. no lines, nowhere near the social aspect, nowhere near the homofashionshow... it scares people.

This is very true, by the numbers and the social aspect (lack thereof) it would be more fair to compare snowmobiliers numbers to _backcountry_ skiers and boarders. Any turd can show up at a ski hill and get some lessons (not that there's anything wrong with that). Backcountry sports require a lot more money invested in equipment, more planning, a small group of people with similar interests and abilities. Much more of a niche even within a sport such as skiing. Look at how many more snowmobiles they sell in the flatlands.....it's because you can ride from your door, it's extremely social, the trails go to restaurants and bars, it's easy to show off your new junk, and it's a quickly learned skill-set.

In Jorli's particular example....I think you're not putting enough blame on the Sunday night thing. I would go to a premier for skiiing movie on a saturday night if I was out for the night anyways...even tho it's not my first choice. A sled movie on a saturday night, I would seek out and try to round up others to go with me. On a sunday night...not sure if I could be bothered I like to stick around home because I have to work monday AM.....I think lots of folks are in the same boat.

 

[CoyoteGirl]

My first thought is that it is mostly to do with Sunday. I love premiers and travel to go to premiers, but would find myself a whole lot less excited to attend one on a Sunday.

I have to wonder if the manufacturers and aftermarket companies aren't looking for something different. We've had an unbelievable response and amount of support for Sledbetties this year starting with all of the sponsors that stepped up this spring to help us raise funds to get this project done! To a bunch of crazy sledchicks who rode their buns off to make it happen, to all the supporters out there who've given us positive vibes all along the way, to aftermarket companies supporting our riders, to dealers stepping up and helping girls get sleds, all the way up to a manufacturer providing a sled to Emilie! I have to think it is in part due to this is a different film than what the sledding world has seen for the past decade plus. And for that support I have to say THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

While I'm here, I have to brag about my fellow Production Team member Emilie Moreshead. Polaris has provided her with a sled through their Freeride program for the upcoming winter! THAT'S exciting stuff right there, especially when I hear of so many other "professionals" out there who can't even get a deal on a sled. This says to me that they are looking for a different angle than what's been done. All IMO of course.

And we have two rockin' premiers coming up kids! (time for a plug! lol) This Friday the 12th in Spokane and the following Saturday the 20th in Leavenworth, WA. Going to be lots of raffle prizes, lots of Betties, lots of fun.... oh and Sledbetties RISE on the big screen!

 

[Jorli]

I'm no premiere expert, but I would say Sunday hurt and trying it in a ski/boarding town also hurt. It's tough in this industry, I wouldn't even try to tap into it if I didn't have 9 years of momentum with Mountain Mod Mania.

I do agree the OE's are really tight, its pretty sad when pro riders can't even get a deal on a sled, they say its not in their budget, I don't get it, if they still make a couple of grand on a discounted sled, they're making money, not spending it, not to mention the huge exposure they get. I feel its more of a bachelor's degree working rather than common sense marketing.

I tried to sell my movies at a Warren Miller movie one year, guess how many I sold.....zero! It's a different crowd.

I do have to say snowmobilers are a great big family and very passionate about our sport. It's too bad sleds cost so darn much these days, but you can still get deals on used sleds.

Stop by and say hi if your in Boise for the Snow Show!

Doc Zoom

There is no doubt that a Sunday show isn't the same as a Saturday show, I didn't have a much better turnout with any of the premieres I did last year with Fourcast on the Friday/Saturday premieres either.

There was zero crossover from the skier/boarder community so I can totally understand why you may not have sold a single video at a WM showing.

This is the point that I feel is why sledding isn't gaining a lot of ground. For those of us that are depending on a ROI in this industry, growth is important and we aren't making significant progress.

When I walked out of the Premiere and saw the club across the street jam packed with 300+ on a Sunday, I think it speaks more about the interest the sport is/isn't fashioning rather than whether the sledders showing up because they have to work the next day.

As for guys like KJ, I don't think the people in the decision making chairs even know who he is or care, I'm pretty certain they never watch the movies I send them. This is so different than snowboarding where Jake Burton is personally making decisions on whether or not he is going to invest in people. If you look at snowboarding, the industry is built around the sport and the lifestyle which has made it successful because everyone gets it. The numbers guys aren't the decision makers because they aren't in touch with the market or community. Its the guys that see the entire picture that pull the strings. A good example of how successful the snowboard business is, is how it changed the ski industry.

Snowmobiling by contrast is corporate, plain and simple. The guys in positions of power aren't in touch with the grass roots, I know a couple examples of guys that tried to change the way the OEs did their marketing and they were fired.

Corporate culture isn't sport culture and I have business being in corporate culture. If the industry is having a tough time, its really not very surprising.

"It is what it is!" tm

 

[CatWoman]

I would ask though, do you think those in that club are even interested in sledding? I would think it would be a different type of crowd than snowmobilers. I'm not saying the sledders don't go out to clubs, but again it's most likely not on a Sunday night.

 

[Jorli]

I would ask though, do you think those in that club are even interested in sledding? I would think it would be a different type of crowd than snowmobilers. I'm not saying the sledders don't go out to clubs, but again it's most likely not on a Sunday night.

They are the type that were at the snowboard premiere the night before. Snowmobiling isn't on the radar for the under 30 crowd. If you look at the stats on ISMA, you could probably track the average age of a sledder increasing one year every year for last five years. The under 30 crowd are doing other things, the reasons are obvious, too expensive, not appealing enough.

 

[CatWoman]

So it's not a crossover crowd then. Just interesting to take a look at all of this.

 

[tomx]

Yep, snowboarding caters to a under 30 crowd, snowmobiling caters to an over 30 crowd. As someone who's been snowboarding for 25 years, and snowmobiling going on my fourth season, this is really evident to me.

Simply, there's a big financial barrier to entry to snowmobiling, getting started snowboarding is easily less than $1k, some would say under $500 cause you can always easily get quality used gear and bum stuff from friends. There's a strong division in snowboarding now and most kids are going with the 'hey there's snow in town, lets go session the handrail at the library.' It's cheap, readily available, and very glamorized in recent snowboard media. Backcountry and powder riding, not so much.

I rode my first sled in 1990 at the young age of 20, as an avid snowboarder, I knew from that day, the sled was the tool to the snowboard lifestyle I wanted. Took me almost 15 years to get to a spot that I could comfortably afford the sled and everything it takes to get it to the hill.

Oddly enough, there's a disturbing trend in snowboarding. Videos never showed sleds 5-10 years ago, even though everyone was using them to get to their film locations. Now in every new vid, there's cut scenes with snowmobiles. The older crowd doesn't want to stand in line anymore and craves more pow and is focusing on better tools to get it. Be prepared to share you're riding area with more snowboard/skier conversion people, they're coming out. I know of three snowboard buddies who got sleds this year, two for the first time, one to replace the crappy one that wasn't cutting it.

I see this as a good thing even though it's gonna blow out more 'secret BC' shredding areas. Old snowboarders know what it's like to be banned, misjudged, and disrespected. They could be powerful ally in preserving our precious riding ares.

In regards to a vid premier, I know I gotta pull teeth to talk most of my 30 something friends to go out on a Friday/Saturday, Sundays just isn't an option for most of us, we got kids, jobs, and stuff. Well most of us do..

 

[mountainhorse]

With the public lot now "PAY" and the cost of coming to the village... not a sledders scene... Even at the GLC.

Have it down in Squampton or up in Pemby... Maybe more...

PLUS... IMO... A lot of the Whistler area sledders are either visitors or up for the season when the season is going.

Hope to see you this year ...

 

[beard]

hey there,

skating, biking, skiing, boarding is a lifestyle for alot of people, sledding is something u do on your day off....this is a truth for the majority i would guess,

although i would say the majority wishes they could ride more, i know i sure do and i got 60 plus days in last year,

why doesnt polaris have a burandt boondocking edition sled? ski doo a treadway freeride model, and cat a crazy canadian chute climb special?

seems like a no brainer to me,

beard bop bop

 

[Sxrlar]

Jorli, I thought Fourcast was an awesome movie. Job well done!

A couple of things about the premier, one, it was Braaap. Nothing against Daniel or anything, I have all of them except the newest one, but Braaap, is not a well known sled vid. You don't see it brought up much here at all, or other forums. Now, maybe in Canada it is a different story, but here, not so much. Second, it was a Sunday night. I'm 42 and sledding is my only hobby, it's my passion, but, I am not going to any premier about anything on a Sunday night, no way, no how.

Also, when I see a rider on a sled, I don't think to myself, man I could do that if I was on that Freeride, or Assault, or M8. These riders, can do it on any brand. I buy sleds based on what will work for me, not what a certain freeride guy is on. Maybe that is the opinion of the mfg's also?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

A while after the premiere, why doesnt anyone set it up so a person can download the vids online for a reasonable price then advertise it on here. Or get hooked up with netflix or something, so people don't have to spend as much to see if they like it or not. It might be less up front but if they like what you do it will pay off and might catch the eye of bigger sponsors, its just going to take time. There are times that if I had access to a vid right when I wanted it I would pay, but when I have to make a call or fill out some crap online and then wait for it, well I get board and do something else.
The people that win in today's world are salesman, no matter what you do you have to be a salesman along with it. I run a business, I do quality work that sells it self and I sale every aspect of what I do to the customer on contact, most of the time if you don't make the sale at first contact, your chance of making the sale is not likely.
Keep it up, hard work always pays off, eventually.

 

[hatchers]

Who is KJ?

hes the star of slednecks 13 and what i feel is one of the sickest sessions ive even seen..and ive got well over 100 sled DVDs

back to the topic - i once had respect for filmers and riders who live it...well, that was a few years ago, time to grow up and get a real job or transfer to a sport with money, this one dont got none son...duh

 

[JustinB]

Jorli- I see what you are getting at but....

Is it just me or did the Thunderstruck and Boondocker premiers in Utah seem to be allot bigger than the past two years. I think Dan, Phatty, and the crew have it down with an awesome movie but they also tied in Utah Avalanche Center as well as putting it up at an awesome venue and giving out great door prizes. Who I think where donated by sponsors. Now they could get more people into it with a place that allows 18 and under but still they are getting people there and thats what counts. Our sport is growing faster than ever you just have to hang on for the ups and downs. In the past 4 years I have converted die hard skiers, snowboarders and guys that you would never see on a sled but they all have bought sleds this year and are as pumped as I am about the snow. It about the younger generation as well my 3 and 5 year old love snowmobiling as much as I do I I take them riding at least once a week and they love it they watch every movie I have for bed time stories.

This is how we make our sport grow is by sharing it with everyone. take anyone you can on one ride 90% of them will get hooked. This picture was taken my first ride this year and I went cause my two little boys begged and begged me to go.

 

[Raff_9001M]

I am struggling with the notion that a movie premiere attendance can be correlated with a decline in the sled industry. I think the sled videos will always struggle for a variety of reasons. Mainly, they appeal to a very small audience and the demographics between the snowmobile industry and the skiing/boarding industry are just too different to draw conclusions. Riders in the Western US make up approximately 12%-15% of registered sleds in the US. Of that number, how many of those truly ride off-trail or in the backcountry. Riders are generally older and may not be as excited about a movie premiere as a younger skier/boarder.

I also think that the OE's will always struggle in supporting the snowmobile industry because it comprises the smallest share of their companies with the exception of Arctic Cat. The sled industry will struggle with major outside sponsorships as well. The battle with the ever popular environmental movement, the possibility of poor snow years which is further fueled by fears of global warming scare, and probably the expense of sledding would most likely deter major companies from throwing big dollars sledders way. Skiing and snowboarding do not have those issues. They are well accepted and loved by the masses, one can always find man-made snow in poor years and compared to snowmobiling is far less expensive.

And on a final whiny note: I can't imagine how difficult and expensive it is to choose a soundtrack for a video that will appeal to the masses. I do know that if I don't enjoy the soundtrack to a film, no matter how good the footage I probably will not watch that video again. At 37 I guess I just can't do thrash or really heavy metal music anymore. That is my problem not the video producers but it does preclude me from purchasing future videos. Maybe there are other people who would agree being that the "Breathe" sled video clip is probably the most viewed snowmobile clip on YouTube.

 

[snowmobiler]

when i first started riding my dad picked up 4 new sleds for like $3500.the average family
cant afford 20k today or 30k in 2020 to go sledding.the sport is toast.

 

[Jorli]

I am struggling with the notion that a movie premiere attendance can be correlated with a decline in the sled industry. I think the sled videos will always struggle for a variety of reasons. Mainly, they appeal to a very small audience and the demographics between the snowmobile industry and the skiing/boarding industry are just too different to draw conclusions. Riders in the Western US make up approximately 12%-15% of registered sleds in the US. Of that number, how many of those truly ride off-trail or in the backcountry. Riders are generally older and may not be as excited about a movie premiere as a younger skier/boarder.

I think you can directly correlate premiere attendance to the overall health of the industry. Premieres draw the younger audience and future long term clients to the industry, if the sport doesn't appeal to the younger crowd within the mountain sport user group, it may likely paint a difficult picture that the sport is facing in the future. I agree with snowmobiler, the costs of sled are getting out of hand and if they hit the 20G mark, I agree the sport is toast, especially in relation to the stagnation of income and devaluation of the dollar. I guess its a catch 22 all around, but you don't make progress by doing nothing. Keep in mind that there is a disportionate amount of money spent on marketing in certain segments of certain industries because their influence spreads into every segment of those industries, mountain sledding certainly accomplishes that in snowmobiling.

 

[TIM]

jorli

I am a little confused. Was the premiere for your movie and did it just come out? To me a premiere is a newly released video. And the impression i have got on here is the vid is over a year old. If that is the case, why would anyone go see an old movie?

also, sunday nights are for getting ready for the work week. But than agian my wife and i where talking about going to a premiere tomorrow night but we saw the movie didn't start until 9:00pm and we both knew that wasn't going to happen. It sucks being an old crusty.

tim

 

[JustinB]

My question is. Has anyone really pushed to have OE's sponsor a movie? Have you gone and put up your sales pitch and showed them that the numbers will benefit them by sponsoring a movie. Put the same arguments we are having here to the OE's If you ride a ski-doo go to ski-doo talk to the marketing people ask for a little then if you produce ask for a little more the next year. If you prove your worth they will step up. I did this for my self for years racing BMX and MX I had to sell as well as prove myself to the worth of why I should be sponsored. If I didnt produce I got dropped.\

Jorli You had a factory backed riders in your movies sell that. Also those Factory backed riders in your movies isnt their gear and sled provided to them at cost or no cost. Is the race fuel they run given to them by torco or VP. If so you had OE support in a sense.

All I am really saying is take the discussions we have here the comments and go to the OE's,

Post a thred like this "HOW DO I GET OE'S TO SPONSOR A MOVIE?" These guys on here are very smart and have awesome ideas Im sure we could all come up with a list of items to take to a sales pitch.

Post a poll about why we buy specific sleds. do We buy cause burrant looks awesome on the new Poo or cause phattys AC manages to hold up every season. Things like that will take you a lot close than complaining about why they are not sponsoring. Take the negative and make it positive and constructive.

 

[Jorli]

jorli

I am a little confused. Was the premiere for your movie and did it just come out? To me a premiere is a newly released video. And the impression i have got on here is the vid is over a year old. If that is the case, why would anyone go see an old movie?

also, sunday nights are for getting ready for the work week. But than agian my wife and i where talking about going to a premiere tomorrow night but we saw the movie didn't start until 9:00pm and we both knew that wasn't going to happen. It sucks being an old crusty.

tim

No, the premiere was for the newest Braaap, the conversation just gotten taken in other directions. And the Sunday aspect didn't stop others from partying it up across the way, this is kind of the point of what I've been trying to make- that the sport isn't the getting the attention of younger generations. Whistler is a ski town, however its also a sledding hot spot. Zero crossover.

 

[JustinB]

No, the premiere was for the newest Braaap, the conversation just gotten taken in other directions. And the Sunday aspect didn't stop others from partying it up across the way, this is kind of the point of what I've been trying to make- that the sport isn't the getting the attention of younger generations. Whistler is a ski town, however its also a sledding hot spot. Zero crossover.

Have the braaap guys hook up with the ski guys and do movies back to back sled move then the ski movie that will get them to see what we are all about.