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Dear Yamaha 2010

I have sat in at 2 of the dealer shows at yama fest now and they have brought up why the apex and nytro and not better than what they can be. they could put better suspension on them but they are worried that will make the cost of the machine to high and they will loose customers. the 4-stroke engine is a expensive engine to build so they have to put cheaper technology on the rest of the sled so they can charge the same amount as the compitition.
sure they could do the better suspension and lighter and stronger front end. but then $16,000 or more retail would be expected.
and for the engine power, not %100 percent sure on this but i think they derated the apex motor from where it could be with the camshaft and feul settings for a reason.
 
i would love to see Yamaha dust off their HDPI direct injection technology and give Skidoo a kick in the teeth. Skidoo didn't like Yamaha running away with all those fourstroke dollars and is going after them. It would be refreshing to see Yamaha do somethign similar on the two stroke side of the house.

It's time Yamaha figured out that a modified trail sled is not a mountain sled.

No matter how hard they try to make a SX, SRX, RX-1 and Apex into mountain sleds they were originally designed for the trail crowd and at the very best they will only be a marginal mountain sled.

Ask yourself, if it weren't for the availbility of boost where would Yamaha's mountain division be?

The Nytro may (and I say may) be the only existing Yamaha chassis suitable from which to build a real mountain sled. It wasn't designed for the trail originally, it had every ounce of pork stripped from it for snowcross racing and it's agile enough to boondock with the two strokes.

That being said, I doubt they get more than a couple of the mods done to the sled the US mountain division knows they desperately need incorportated into the sled to make it competitive.

I bet you'll see a tapered tunnel with Yamaha's version of snow eliminators , maybe a lighter rear skid and maybe a 162" track option and very little more for 2010.

I hope like heck that I'm wrong but, oftentimes corporate politics inhibits innovation.

Frosty
 
I have sat in at 2 of the dealer shows at yama fest now and they have brought up why the apex and nytro and not better than what they can be. they could put better suspension on them but they are worried that will make the cost of the machine to high and they will loose customers. the 4-stroke engine is a expensive engine to build so they have to put cheaper technology on the rest of the sled so they can charge the same amount as the compitition.
sure they could do the better suspension and lighter and stronger front end. but then $16,000 or more retail would be expected.
and for the engine power, not %100 percent sure on this but i think they derated the apex motor from where it could be with the camshaft and feul settings for a reason.

i dont see how changing the rear suspension/track could cost all that much different???? If timbersled sells there skid for 1500 bucks... hes got some profit in there... I cant see it costing yamaha more then 3-400 to upgrade the suspension as the current one is not free to build.. Also going the route of cat, having a close to holz/ortimbersled rear skid and floats all the way arond...charge a extra 1000 bucks.. but they would have a great 4stroke in around 510lbs!! or 520 to be conservative.

A 500lbs 130+hp 4stroke is a nice starting platform!!(factory dry catalog weight!!) You could just throw a proper tank and exhaust on her and ride!!

One day!!
 
i would love to see Yamaha dust off their HDPI direct injection technology and give Skidoo a kick in the teeth. Skidoo didn't like Yamaha running away with all those fourstroke dollars and is going after them. It would be refreshing to see Yamaha do somethign similar on the two stroke side of the house.

It's time Yamaha figured out that a modified trail sled is not a mountain sled.

No matter how hard they try to make a SX, SRX, RX-1 and Apex into mountain sleds they were originally designed for the trail crowd and at the very best they will only be a marginal mountain sled.

Ask yourself, if it weren't for the availbility of boost where would Yamaha's mountain division be?

The Nytro may (and I say may) be the only existing Yamaha chassis suitable from which to build a real mountain sled. It wasn't designed for the trail originally, it had every ounce of pork stripped from it for snowcross racing and it's agile enough to boondock with the two strokes.

That being said, I doubt they get more than a couple of the mods done to the sled the US mountain division knows they desperately need incorportated into the sled to make it competitive.

I bet you'll see a tapered tunnel with Yamaha's version of snow eliminators , maybe a lighter rear skid and maybe a 162" track option and very little more for 2010.

I hope like heck that I'm wrong but, oftentimes corporate politics inhibits innovation.

Frosty



i am not a APEX fan, but to say that at very best they can only be a marginal mtn sled is a pretty bold and frankly stupid comment.. Whatch a few hardcore movies and say that about the apex!!

Again im not a Apex fan but come-on!!!
 
I have sat in at 2 of the dealer shows at yama fest now and they have brought up why the apex and nytro and not better than what they can be. they could put better suspension on them but they are worried that will make the cost of the machine to high and they will loose customers. the 4-stroke engine is a expensive engine to build so they have to put cheaper technology on the rest of the sled so they can charge the same amount as the compitition.
sure they could do the better suspension and lighter and stronger front end. but then $16,000 or more retail would be expected.
and for the engine power, not %100 percent sure on this but i think they derated the apex motor from where it could be with the camshaft and feul settings for a reason.



ya know that yamaha could bump the apex motor to the r1 spec but it wouldnt be "yamaha" reliable it would be maybe "brp" reliable. a sport bike dosent spend much time at peak power but not so with a snowmobile.
 
Weight loss, weight loss weight loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that is the biggest thing if Yamaha wants to build competitive mountain sleds. A few more ponies would be nice too but IMO the weight is the biggest thing keeping Yammi mountain sleds out of the game. Not everyone can afford a turbo to compensate. Don't get me wrong, I love my Nytro to death but I find that the more weight I can drop the better it performs and the happier I am. The reliability is awesome and having a sled that always gets back to the truck under its own power is worth a lot to me. However, having a sled that performs well is big too. IMO Yamaha is just a few pounds away from having that sled. Granted, the four-stroke engines put Yammi at a disadvantage right out of the gate but there are other ways to drop weight.There are all kinds of ways to do it. Rear suspension is a huge one. Just look at the Timbersled skid. The Nytro loses 38 lbs from that alone. IMO its entirely feasible for Yamaha to drop 50+ lbs from most if not all of their mountain sleds. Yamaha already has some awesome bulletproof engines and weight loss will go a very long way towards waking them up and allowing them to live up to their full potential. If Yamaha ever wants to be competitive in the non-boosted western market, they had better get off their butts and lose some weight

weight loss is great but not a substitute for horsepower. Why not put a conservative turbo on the nytro with about 9 lbs boost SUPER safe for 93:D octane, include a tamper free waste gate and an inter cooler and a decent track>>>>NOT THE MAVERICKITY:eek::eek::eek:,,,would be nice to support a company that gives back...we (I) buy this sled and spend over 30gs total to have an unreal experience in the back country...Think yami could not do a factory turbo (which they already have done it saw the prototype) 140 hp 9lbs boost about another65-70 hp on premium fuel??? 1/2 of the players have already done this and skidoo will probably beat yami to the punch as well.:mad:..It would be nice to be able to buy a reliable 4-stroke turbo with extra ponies,esp. from the company we have supported for so long while they gave us huge underdogs:mad::mad::
HERE IS A THOUGHT IF THE AFTERMARKET COMPANIES WERE SHUT DOWN(NEVER HAPPEN) DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD AFFECT WHAT YAMI BROUGHT TO THE TABLE.cause lets face it these big boosted yamies( I have one) do well for their image...it would be nice for a change if THEY did something to boost our image(and ultimately theirs) on the hill so everyone does not have to bring up the 25 gs we MUST spend:o:o:o to make it this good....rant over
 
i would love to see Yamaha dust off their HDPI direct injection technology and give Skidoo a kick in the teeth. Skidoo didn't like Yamaha running away with all those fourstroke dollars and is going after them. It would be refreshing to see Yamaha do somethign similar on the two stroke side of the house.

It's time Yamaha figured out that a modified trail sled is not a mountain sled.

No matter how hard they try to make a SX, SRX, RX-1 and Apex into mountain sleds they were originally designed for the trail crowd and at the very best they will only be a marginal mountain sled.

Ask yourself, if it weren't for the availbility of boost where would Yamaha's mountain division be?

The Nytro may (and I say may) be the only existing Yamaha chassis suitable from which to build a real mountain sled. It wasn't designed for the trail originally, it had every ounce of pork stripped from it for snowcross racing and it's agile enough to boondock with the two strokes.

That being said, I doubt they get more than a couple of the mods done to the sled the US mountain division knows they desperately need incorportated into the sled to make it competitive.

I bet you'll see a tapered tunnel with Yamaha's version of snow eliminators , maybe a lighter rear skid and maybe a 162" track option and very little more for 2010.

I hope like heck that I'm wrong but, oftentimes corporate politics inhibits innovation.

Frosty



I'm with Frosty, I'd like to see a super light, super clean 2-stroke as an option. They have some awesome technology in their hands, some of their marine tech. could bleed over into the snow division, happened before when they took snowmobiles away from the golf cart division, and gave it to the dirt bike guys... whala ! MM700 ! let's see some light weight happen for 2010.
 
i would love to see Yamaha dust off their HDPI direct injection technology and give Skidoo a kick in the teeth. Skidoo didn't like Yamaha running away with all those fourstroke dollars and is going after them. It would be refreshing to see Yamaha do somethign similar on the two stroke side of the house.

It's time Yamaha figured out that a modified trail sled is not a mountain sled.

No matter how hard they try to make a SX, SRX, RX-1 and Apex into mountain sleds they were originally designed for the trail crowd and at the very best they will only be a marginal mountain sled.

Ask yourself, if it weren't for the availbility of boost where would Yamaha's mountain division be?

The Nytro may (and I say may) be the only existing Yamaha chassis suitable from which to build a real mountain sled. It wasn't designed for the trail originally, it had every ounce of pork stripped from it for snowcross racing and it's agile enough to boondock with the two strokes.

That being said, I doubt they get more than a couple of the mods done to the sled the US mountain division knows they desperately need incorportated into the sled to make it competitive.

I bet you'll see a tapered tunnel with Yamaha's version of snow eliminators , maybe a lighter rear skid and maybe a 162" track option and very little more for 2010.

I hope like heck that I'm wrong but, oftentimes corporate politics inhibits innovation.

Frosty

You are quite right. Without the turbo "craze" there would be way less Yamahas in the mountains. I think you're spot on with your predictions for 2010 as well.
 
I have sat in at 2 of the dealer shows at yama fest now and they have brought up why the apex and nytro and not better than what they can be. they could put better suspension on them but they are worried that will make the cost of the machine to high and they will loose customers. the 4-stroke engine is a expensive engine to build so they have to put cheaper technology on the rest of the sled so they can charge the same amount as the compitition.
sure they could do the better suspension and lighter and stronger front end. but then $16,000 or more retail would be expected.
and for the engine power, not %100 percent sure on this but i think they derated the apex motor from where it could be with the camshaft and feul settings for a reason.

Building something lighter does not have to mean more money. We are all familiar with the way these things are put together. They have to find a better balance between reliability and longevity. Go through the same processes Arctic Cat and Skidoo did. Eliminate unneeded parts and fasteners and multitask components. I keep telling myself it's a Japanese mentality thing but then look at some of the other things they produce. I don't think there is enough pressure from anywhere for serious weight loss.
 
I know there is a snowballs chance in he!!! they would do this but they have the tech to build a clean 2 stroke mountain sled. Something that could compete with the M-1000 right out of the crate. Imagine an all new redesigned MM 900cc triple weighing in close to the current 800cc two strokes. I know I am dreaming. Damn reality sucks!!!:mad: They should at least put a turbo on the Nytro and shut a few of us whiners up.:D Sounds like there might be a factory 2010 Ski Don't Summit 1200 four stoke turbo. I would hate to see those guys beat Yami to the punch. ;):beer;:beer;:beer;
 
A 800 triple or 900 triple 2 stroke Mountain Max would be awsome. But Yamaha went down the 4 stroke road, and they will not turn back. IMO

I do think (wish) they would of kept a 2 stroke Mountain sled in there line up.:mad: Even though the Mountain Max's/Vipers might have been what some say as to heavy, not enuf power. I love my MM 700 piped/151 other goodies....Kinda sounds like what we are b!tching about the Nytro now :D

Atleast Yamaha is consistant;)
 
weight loss is great but not a substitute for horsepower. Why not put a conservative turbo on the nytro with about 9 lbs boost SUPER safe for 93:D octane, include a tamper free waste gate and an inter cooler and a decent track>>>>NOT THE MAVERICKITY:eek::eek::eek:,,,would be nice to support a company that gives back...we (I) buy this sled and spend over 30gs total to have an unreal experience in the back country...Think yami could not do a factory turbo (which they already have done it saw the prototype) 140 hp 9lbs boost about another65-70 hp on premium fuel??? 1/2 of the players have already done this and skidoo will probably beat yami to the punch as well.:mad:..It would be nice to be able to buy a reliable 4-stroke turbo with extra ponies,esp. from the company we have supported for so long while they gave us huge underdogs:mad::mad::
HERE IS A THOUGHT IF THE AFTERMARKET COMPANIES WERE SHUT DOWN(NEVER HAPPEN) DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD AFFECT WHAT YAMI BROUGHT TO THE TABLE.cause lets face it these big boosted yamies( I have one) do well for their image...it would be nice for a change if THEY did something to boost our image(and ultimately theirs) on the hill so everyone does not have to bring up the 25 gs we MUST spend:o:o:o to make it this good....rant over

Never said that added horsepower wasn't a good thing just that IMO weight is the biggest thing keeping Yamaha out of the game when it comes to mountain sleds. Just read the sled magazines and look at the reviews of the Yamaha sleds. You will be hard pressed to find anything bad said about them except when it comes to weight. You can add all the horsepower in the world but if it's in a heavy chassis, you don't get the full benefit of that horsepower. Just my opinion.
 
i dont see how changing the rear suspension/track could cost all that much different???? If timbersled sells there skid for 1500 bucks... hes got some profit in there... I cant see it costing yamaha more then 3-400 to upgrade the suspension as the current one is not free to build.. Also going the route of cat, having a close to holz/ortimbersled rear skid and floats all the way arond...charge a extra 1000 bucks.. but they would have a great 4stroke in around 510lbs!! or 520 to be conservative.

A 500lbs 130+hp 4stroke is a nice starting platform!!(factory dry catalog weight!!) You could just throw a proper tank and exhaust on her and ride!!

One day!!

Yea i hear yea, after the whole unveiling of the new sleds 2 years ago, all the dealer owners were asking and talking about that issue. they want better too, they know it sucks but cant say anything. so they build up their sleds to get them where they are the best.
your right, it would only cost $1000 more to make them that much better. i would pay it, but maybe yamaha doesnt want to risk it. not sure why not. i would have thought the Special edition would have better rear skid on it or somthing.
 
What I would like to see from Yamaha is the nitro, at 480lbs, a real suspention in the back, real track, but same length as now. Good shocks in the front, and about 170hp. Stock turbo if need be. Then They would really get me looking. I need a sled I can buy, ride, and be happy with. Not something I have to spend $10,000 into yet to make it into what I want. As it sits right now, nobody is building what I want in a stock sled. If yamaha doesn't up the HP and take off some weight I'm going to be on a D8 instead. I'm hoping they really deliver this spring. It's not that I expect everything I just mentioned, that won't happen, but they need to change some things. I hope they listen.
 
I'm riding an older Doo right now and the Nytro is on my short list for next year. One for me and one for my lady. I'm actually looking forward to modifying mine. I haven't done much wrenching since I had dirt bikes 10 years ago and frankly I miss it.

That being said I'd expect a stock Nytro to be more than adequate for most lighter female riders and would like to see the following before we spend +20k on some new sleds:

1. Foot boards that won't load up with snow
2. Better tunnel design to prevent trenching
3. Loose at least 50lbs. Seems pretty easy with little cost.
4. Better track.

It just doesn't seem like these things need to be taken care of by after market products. Turbos, fox floats, etc would be killer, but I don't think they need to go that far to capture serious market share.
 
I'm riding an older Doo right now and the Nytro is on my short list for next year. One for me and one for my lady. I'm actually looking forward to modifying mine. I haven't done much wrenching since I had dirt bikes 10 years ago and frankly I miss it.

That being said I'd expect a stock Nytro to be more than adequate for most lighter female riders and would like to see the following before we spend +20k on some new sleds:

1. Foot boards that won't load up with snow
2. Better tunnel design to prevent trenching
3. Loose at least 50lbs. Seems pretty easy with little cost.
4. Better track.

It just doesn't seem like these things need to be taken care of by after market products. Turbos, fox floats, etc would be killer, but I don't think they need to go that far to capture serious market share.

I've got some input on your desires for the Nytro's "fixes", if ya want 'em:

1. I ride with Doo's as well, and my boards don't load up any more than theirs do, we're all kicking through the day to clear the boards.

2. Tunnel doesn't cause the trenching, IMO. It's the crappy suspension in the rear that causes it; the "high-centering" on the tunnel/floorboards is a result of the crappy suspension not being able to keep the track where it needs to be. The stock skid digs its own hole, and can't climb out of it.

3. Fixing #2 with a Mountain Tamer skid by Timbersled will also fix this (drops nearly 40 #'s).

4. Better track, you bet. I agree with you on this, however I think the skid is the major part of the problem. I swapped tracks at the same time I swapped the skid, but I've heard that people who swapped the skid alone noticed a major improvement over stock even with the Maverick.
 
Yamaha is owned by JAPANESE!

The problem is it's owned by the conservative Japanese and how many Japanese do you see riding sleds? They've always been sub-par in the Mnt. sector and only glimpses of glory in the trail sector. They've ALWAYS BEEN TO HEAVY!:mad::mad:
To say you heard them complain about sells because a lighter more functional rear suspension would raise the price to high is a CROCK OF ScHITTT! That's an excuse, at least come up with something believeable to tell your customers and Dealerships. Someone said it best, loose 50 lbs with a light exhaust and timbersled designed rear skid and run a challenger track and you'd have another machine.....are they so blind as to not realize how truly simple this could be and NOT cost prohibitive!
If Yamaha decided to actually design a TRUE mountain sled and went through the Nytro removing parts like Cat and Skidoo and not using huge bolts on every thing etc. etc. they could loose 50 lbs and cut costs or at least keep them minimal! YES Yamaha knows this but THEY DON'T CARE!
How long have we suffered with poor valving in thier shocks.....this does NOT cost a thing to change for them. How long did we all suffer with there Proaction CRAP on the MM and 15 years worth of other sleds before they switched to a torsion sprung rear skid! Everyone complained then and eveyone is still complaining but the problem is it's owned and ran by Japanese, which has is pro's and con's. Quality is top notch but suffers in to many other area's, the bottom line is they are business minded and they know the sleds don't make them much money. Bikes and other things sell tons more so they get first priority! Until Yamahas sled division is heaed by someone with a desire to drive the competition who personally rides a sled A LOT, this won't change and even then it would have to be backed by the.......guess who............Japanese! Sorry to sound pesamistic but this is the facts! They could have copied an RMK skid in 99' and ran an 800CC tripple and dominated but they didn't want to and so they just got by with selling a reasonable amount of sleds to make a reasonable profit. This is Yamaha through and through, they build sleds for the ordinary guy , solid reliable and that's the goal. The reps say this over and over in all the video's i've seen for years! You watch the AC or Doo reps and they talk about buiulding dominant sleds, the best in it's class, dominating the competition and being on the cutting edge of what the "RIDERS" want. I've never heard a cat rep say, "we build sleds for the ordinary guy, solid and dependable"......blah blah blah. Put me to sleep Yamaha.....:rolleyes:
 
Go ahead, don't hold back.....tell us how you REALLY feel....:beer;

The problem is it's owned by the conservative Japanese and how many Japanese do you see riding sleds? They've always been sub-par in the Mnt. sector and only glimpses of glory in the trail sector. They've ALWAYS BEEN TO HEAVY!:mad::mad:
To say you heard them complain about sells because a lighter more functional rear suspension would raise the price to high is a CROCK OF ScHITTT! That's an excuse, at least come up with something believeable to tell your customers and Dealerships. Someone said it best, loose 50 lbs with a light exhaust and timbersled designed rear skid and run a challenger track and you'd have another machine.....are they so blind as to not realize how truly simple this could be and NOT cost prohibitive!
If Yamaha decided to actually design a TRUE mountain sled and went through the Nytro removing parts like Cat and Skidoo and not using huge bolts on every thing etc. etc. they could loose 50 lbs and cut costs or at least keep them minimal! YES Yamaha knows this but THEY DON'T CARE!
How long have we suffered with poor valving in thier shocks.....this does NOT cost a thing to change for them. How long did we all suffer with there Proaction CRAP on the MM and 15 years worth of other sleds before they switched to a torsion sprung rear skid! Everyone complained then and eveyone is still complaining but the problem is it's owned and ran by Japanese, which has is pro's and con's. Quality is top notch but suffers in to many other area's, the bottom line is they are business minded and they know the sleds don't make them much money. Bikes and other things sell tons more so they get first priority! Until Yamahas sled division is heaed by someone with a desire to drive the competition who personally rides a sled A LOT, this won't change and even then it would have to be backed by the.......guess who............Japanese! Sorry to sound pesamistic but this is the facts! They could have copied an RMK skid in 99' and ran an 800CC tripple and dominated but they didn't want to and so they just got by with selling a reasonable amount of sleds to make a reasonable profit. This is Yamaha through and through, they build sleds for the ordinary guy , solid reliable and that's the goal. The reps say this over and over in all the video's i've seen for years! You watch the AC or Doo reps and they talk about buiulding dominant sleds, the best in it's class, dominating the competition and being on the cutting edge of what the "RIDERS" want. I've never heard a cat rep say, "we build sleds for the ordinary guy, solid and dependable"......blah blah blah. Put me to sleep Yamaha.....:rolleyes:
 
What I would like to see from Yamaha is the nitro, at 480lbs, a real suspention in the back, real track, but same length as now. Good shocks in the front, and about 170hp. Stock turbo if need be. Then They would really get me looking. I need a sled I can buy, ride, and be happy with. Not something I have to spend $10,000 into yet to make it into what I want. As it sits right now, nobody is building what I want in a stock sled. If yamaha doesn't up the HP and take off some weight I'm going to be on a D8 instead. I'm hoping they really deliver this spring. It's not that I expect everything I just mentioned, that won't happen, but they need to change some things. I hope they listen.

no need to be greedy!!! 480lbs?? i would be happy being around 500-520 with a track!!480 is light.. 170hp would be nice. should be 200 if its a turbo though
 
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