DC Power on a PRO

[mountainhorse]

"Lead Dog" seems to be a general reference IMO... kind of like "kleenex" or "q-tips"
even though they are facial-tissue or cotton-swabs.

I like your light as well... plus it has more power within $35 price of each other.

For many a halogen is easier, and less expensive even if the output may be a bit less.

For those with halogen lights still mounted in their sleds... adding 50W additional draw IF they also have other high draw accessories may not be the best idea... that is where the low-draw LED or HID may come in handy.

 

[phatty]

Phatty
Lead dog is 35 watts halogen that runs on AC or Dc.
Would you mind letting me know why you would choose that product over the Lifetime warrantied Cyclops HL-001 50 watt Helmet mounted light or another higher performing helmet mount product?
http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/?page=categories&id=2

MH is correct, its more a general term used to define a light attached to a helmet. I haven't made my decision on what to run yet. People I ride with run the actual "leaddog" light with great success. Easily out preforms machine headlights. Of course the cyclops has roughly 4 times the lumens (really, really, ridiculously bright ) and lifetime warranty which the leaddog doesnt have, but the leaddog is roughly 1/4 the price. Got any black friday sales going on?

 

[mountainhorse]

Geoff,

Lead Dog Halogen is $85 for 35watt
Cyclops Halogen is $120 for 50watt

The Cyclops Solstice HID, is the super bright one... is $250

 

[off road rider]

MH is correct, its more a general term used to define a light attached to a helmet. I haven't made my decision on what to run yet. People I ride with run the actual "leaddog" light with great success. Easily out preforms machine headlights. Of course the cyclops has roughly 4 times the lumens (really, really, ridiculously bright ) and lifetime warranty which the leaddog doesn't have, but the leaddog is roughly 1/4 the price. Got any black friday sales going on?

Thanks. apples to apples and apples o oranges both apply here.

Ill give a way to long winded comp here. Its hard not to, Lighting and Motorsports are my passions.

Our Halogen product retails for 119.95 with a SW discount thats 105.55
Not only is the Cyclops light 50 watt rather than a 35,The amount of light from the 50 watts is measurable. We also have a 35 watt option.

The Cyclops housing is made from Urethane rubber. There is no comparison on toughness, We used do do hammer comparison test at snowmobile shows,Guess how many LD's Ive smashed? The Snowbundgy guys call me Bam Bam Our cords are nearly twice as thick. Durability is key.

The contact patch that holds the light on the helmet is twice as large on the cyclops Hal-001, this comes in nice when riding in the trees.

If your spilling light from the back and sides of a light you are also losing focus and distance.The Cyclops product focuses the beam where you need it.

We have never lost a sale to leaddog at any show, at least to anyone who has talked to us. The hammer test does it every time.
There simply is no comparison on halogen products.

Our LED Adventure light will outshine both the leaddog and our HL-001 50 watt light. The advantage of that light is running from battery power,
Battery power is specifically nice since your not tied to the sled and you also have light when the sled is not moving. I use nothing but battery power for all my riding.It also makes for a far more versatile light.
LED is far more reliable than a halogen bulb and its smaller than both the halogen products

The Solstice HID
This is the king of helmet mounted lighting systems.

You said it, 4 times the price for 4X the light, however that includes Batteries. Once you try something like the Solstice HID you would never go back to a halogen light, There is not such a thing as to much light.
The Sled powered Solstice HID retails at 250 add the SW discount and save a nice chunk. It requires 30 watts DC power to run, there is a switch on the cord, It will also run from batteries.

I don't want to sound like a blowhard here . I have pushed hard to manufacture the best helmet mounted products available anywhere,I stand behind them 150% and do believe our products are bar none the best available.
Ive raced with those products and had the best riders in the world endorse us.
We do not distributor threw WPS or TR, So many snowmobile riders dont know about us. Our main market is off road dirt bike lighting. However Sledding is also a Passion for me.
One thing I can guarantee is that I support my customers, We are a family operated business and the buck stops here with me.

You don't ride a 1980's sled do you? Why use 1980's lighting?
I am thinking we will do a Black Friday deal.. check in the general section tomorrow.

 

[phatty]

Thanks. apples to apples and apples o oranges both apply here.

Ill give a way to long winded comp here. Its hard not to, Lighting and Motorsports are my passions.

Our Halogen product retails for 119.95 with a SW discount thats 105.55
Not only is the Cyclops light 50 watt rather than a 35,The amount of light from the 50 watts is measurable. We also have a 35 watt option.

The Cyclops housing is made from Urethane rubber. There is no comparison on toughness, We used do do hammer comparison test at snowmobile shows,Guess how many LD's Ive smashed? The Snowbundgy guys call me Bam Bam Our cords are nearly twice as thick. Durability is key.

The contact patch that holds the light on the helmet is twice as large on the cyclops Hal-001, this comes in nice when riding in the trees.

If your spilling light from the back and sides of a light you are also losing focus and distance.The Cyclops product focuses the beam where you need it.

We have never lost a sale to leaddog at any show, at least to anyone who has talked to us. The hammer test does it every time.
There simply is no comparison on halogen products.

Our LED Adventure light will outshine both the leaddog and our HL-001 50 watt light. The advantage of that light is running from battery power,
Battery power is specifically nice since your not tied to the sled and you also have light when the sled is not moving. I use nothing but battery power for all my riding.It also makes for a far more versatile light.
LED is far more reliable than a halogen bulb and its smaller than both the halogen products

The Solstice HID
This is the king of helmet mounted lighting systems.

You said it, 4 times the price for 4X the light, however that includes Batteries. Once you try something like the Solstice HID you would never go back to a halogen light, There is not such a thing as to much light.
The Sled powered Solstice HID retails at 250 add the SW discount and save a nice chunk. It requires 30 watts DC power to run, there is a switch on the cord, It will also run from batteries.

I don't want to sound like a blowhard here . I have pushed hard to manufacture the best helmet mounted products available anywhere,I stand behind them 150% and do believe our products are bar none the best available.
Ive raced with those products and had the best riders in the world endorse us.
We do not distributor threw WPS or TR, So many snowmobile riders dont know about us. Our main market is off road dirt bike lighting. However Sledding is also a Passion for me.
One thing I can guarantee is that I support my customers, We are a family operated business and the buck stops here with me.

You don't ride a 1980's sled do you? Why use 1980's lighting?
I am thinking we will do a Black Friday deal.. check in the general section tomorrow.

very good info there, thanks for taking time to respond. one thing i will note, ive gotten a little lost on your website trying to find different lights. Obviously i was comparing the leaddog to the solstice HID, as i had no idea there was a 50 watt version in the halogen (didnt see it on the links or products on your website).

on the solstice HID do you have to run a battery? i would just want to run direct from DC power. I think thats what you were talking about for $250 right? Will be watching for deal tomorrow! thanks again for taking time to answer questions!

 

[off road rider]

very good info there, thanks for taking time to respond. one thing i will note, ive gotten a little lost on your website trying to find different lights. Obviously i was comparing the leaddog to the solstice HID, as i had no idea there was a 50 watt version in the halogen (didnt see it on the links or products on your website).

on the solstice HID do you have to run a battery? i would just want to run direct from DC power. I think thats what you were talking about for $250 right? Will be watching for deal tomorrow! thanks again for taking time to answer questions!

Thanks Phatty, I appreciate the feedback on the site.
yes the Solstice can be ran from dc power on the sled.

 

[108snowbandit]

Mh
Do you know at what voltage or condition the chassis power relay cuts chassis power and does the ecu send the latch signal.

 

[mountainhorse]

Chassis relay activation is RPM dependent.

CHASSIS RELAY: Controls the power distribution to the chassis separate from the rest of the system. The relay will close at
a set RPM, when the system can support the chassis load, and open when engine RPM drops past a calibrated histories or 700
RPM. Voltage Boost kicks in at 700 RPM, the relay opens, the stator power is boosted and allocated to the fuel pump and ignition
components.
Red/White -- Power -- Chassis Power
Red -- Reg Out -- Regulated Power
White/Blue -- ECU -- ECU switches to Ground controls

.

 

[Lightspd]

I bought a male and the reverse female plug that plugs right into the harness labeled DC. I am running my wideband, helmet visor heater off of it with no issues whatsoever. I paid $10.00 for them They are a nice tight fit and can be removed easily so that you can service the machine as well. If anyone wants them email me cam@lightspeedinnovations.com

Cheers Cam

 

[mountainhorse]

I would highly recommend against running anything off of that red/white that does not have a 2 amp max fuse on it (combined for ALL accesory loads on that circuit)... the plug you are using is power TESTING when doing diagnostics...

This is the same circuit (red/white wire) that the rubber DC accessory connector in the hood harness that IS fused.. with a 2 amp fuse... as it should be... DO NOT INSTALL A LARGER FUSE IN THIS CIRCUIT.

The red/white wire and the red wire are powered by the main voltage regulator.
If that regulator takes a dive from overload...your sled will not run and you could fry your ECU.

On the Main regulator... the 2amp fuse is on the same circuit as the chassis DC power TEST port... though the DC power test port is not fused. The DC Power Test is used for the 'Digital wrench' program at the dealership, or for simply using a VOM to check chassis voltage.

If any of the wires that tap into that test port short to ground... you will fry the regulator (expensive) and possibly the ECU... both of which would not be, rightfully, covered under warranty.

Polaris limits that circuit with a 2 amp fuse to allow for full load on the fuel pump etc. and other voltage spikes and ability to deal with thermal soak on a sled that is run at close to full load (lots of underhood heat) and not have the possibility to compromise the ECU.

The Chassis coil is rated at 200watt max output.
Loads on that Chassis Regulator (approx)
Fuel pump ~ 96w at full load
ECU/MFD (injectors included) ~58w
Tail light ~ 3w
Exhaust valve solenoid ~ 6w
Total ~ 163 watts
Add the 2 amp Acc tap (24 watt) =>> 187watt

Factor in a conversion efficiency factor???

The main Regulators on the Polaris Sleds from Kokosan-Denki have a proven track record of going bad when overloaded.. and taking the ECU with it.

My thoughts are... if the average consumer is given a place to tap power from... they will put in a bigger fuse because the correct sized one keeps getting toasted... in the world of consumer products...people can "break an anvil with a rubber hammer"

For those that are using the red/white or red wire circuits to power accessories... and have more than a 2 amp load.. I believe you are living on borrowed time.

Conversely if the Lighting/charging coil and/or regulator quits on you, it will not affect the engine operation of the sled and will not leave the sled stranded in the backcountry as it is completely separate from the ECU and other control systems. The worst thing that cango bad in that circuit is the headlight bulbs, the grip heaters and the charge/lighting regulator.

The Lighting/charging regulator has a proven track record in the last 15 years at Polaris of being reliable and inexpensive.

Some voltage stabilization is all that I feel is needed on that side IMO, but a simple capacitor, like those used in the chassis harness would be ideal for this.

I'd much rather see load drawn on a circuit and regulator that does NOT also operate essential items that can stop the sled like the fuel pump and ECU.

The 2amp accessory power is completely separate from the 10amp batt charge circuit and it's separate regulator.

It is at no time connected to the 10 amp circuit that goes to the battery charge through the electric start sub-harness.

The 10 amp battery charge circuit is powered from the separate charge regulator which has no other purpose, it seems, than to charge the battery and regulate the AC voltage to the headlights.

The two amp fuse which is connected to the DC Accessory power in the hood harness, Red with white tracer (a two terminal rubber plug).

It gets it's power FROM the RED circuit when the ECU activates it, through the chassis -relay at a pre-determined RPM.

CHASSIS RELAY: Controls the power distribution to the chassis separate from the rest of the system. The relay will close at
a set RPM, when the system can support the chassis load, and open when engine RPM drops past a calibrated histories or 700
RPM. Voltage Boost kicks in at 700 RPM, the relay opens, the stator power is boosted and allocated to the fuel pump and ignition
components.
Red/White -- Power -- Chassis Power
Red -- Reg Out -- Regulated Power
White/Blue -- ECU -- ECU switches to Ground controls

The Main Regulator supplies power to the ECU, the Fuel pump, the injectors, ignition coils when starting. After the engine fires up.. the chassis relay is closed and the remainder of the chassis items are powered up... Those items are the 2amp acc power plug, L.E.D. Tail light/brake light. This helps the sled to start.

The 2 amp fused circuit I'm sure will handle a tad more... but I'd hate to rely on that... Especially when there is a superior power source that does NOT connect to the regulator that controls the "Vital running controls" in the sled.

That accessory plug was intended only for low amp draw circuits like heated visors and GPS or cell phone charging.

A A/F ratio gauge actually draws a fair amount of current... the heater in the sensor pulls about 4 amps!!

IMO... A good harness could simply plug into the Electric Start connector... have a small fuse block on it a Power Capacitor like those used in Car Audio systems (click)

 

[108snowbandit]

Mh

At the end of the day I need to power my all turbo dc load ..... oil pump, af/02, and dobeck off of my battery being charged from the estart harness

 

[mountainhorse]

xrsoggie, Since you have a battery in your Electric start sled. Tap directly off the battery into a fuse block and power up your items.

The charging/lighting regulator-rectifier is not affected by the chassis relay.

With a battery in there, you have good clean DC of ample amperage to power up your items safely.

for those that don't have a battery... I recommend using a capacitor in the line to help smooth out the DC supply from this regulator... Fast and simple.

Mountainhorse:
I would highly recommend against running anything off of that red/white that does not have a 2 amp max fuse on it (combined for ALL accesory loads on that circuit)... the plug you are using is power TESTING when doing diagnostics...

This is the same circuit (red/white wire) that the rubber DC accessory connector in the hood harness that IS fused.. with a 2 amp fuse... as it should be... DO NOT INSTALL A LARGER FUSE IN THIS CIRCUIT.

The red/white wire and the red wire are powered by the main voltage regulator.
If that regulator takes a dive from overload...your sled will not run and you could fry your ECU.

On the Main regulator... the 2amp fuse is on the same circuit as the chassis DC power TEST port... though the DC power test port is not fused. The DC Power Test is used for the 'Digital wrench' program at the dealership, or for simply using a VOM to check chassis voltage.

If any of the wires that tap into that test port short to ground... you will fry the regulator (expensive) and possibly the ECU... both of which would not be, rightfully, covered under warranty.

Polaris limits that circuit with a 2 amp fuse to allow for full load on the fuel pump etc. and other voltage spikes and ability to deal with thermal soak on a sled that is run at close to full load (lots of underhood heat) and not have the possibility to compromise the ECU.

The Chassis coil is rated at 200watt max output.
Loads on that Chassis Regulator (approx)
Fuel pump ~ 96w at full load
ECU/MFD (injectors included) ~58w
Tail light ~ 3w
Exhaust valve solenoid ~ 6w
Total ~ 163 watts
Add the 2 amp Acc tap (24 watt) =>> 187watt

Factor in a conversion efficiency factor???

The main Regulators on the Polaris Sleds from Kokosan-Denki have a proven track record of going bad when overloaded.. and taking the ECU with it.

My thoughts are... if the average consumer is given a place to tap power from... they will put in a bigger fuse because the correct sized one keeps getting toasted... in the world of consumer products...people can "break an anvil with a rubber hammer"

For those that are using the red/white or red wire circuits to power accessories... and have more than a 2 amp load.. I believe you are living on borrowed time.

Conversely if the Lighting/charging coil and/or regulator quits on you, it will not affect the engine operation of the sled and will not leave the sled stranded in the backcountry as it is completely separate from the ECU and other control systems. The worst thing that cango bad in that circuit is the headlight bulbs, the grip heaters and the charge/lighting regulator.

The Lighting/charging regulator has a proven track record in the last 15 years at Polaris of being reliable and inexpensive.

Some voltage stabilization is all that I feel is needed on that side IMO, but a simple capacitor, like those used in the chassis harness would be ideal for this.

I'd much rather see load drawn on a circuit and regulator that does NOT also operate essential items that can stop the sled like the fuel pump and ECU.

The 2amp accessory power is completely separate from the 10amp batt charge circuit and it's separate regulator.

It is at no time connected to the 10 amp circuit that goes to the battery charge through the electric start sub-harness.

The 10 amp battery charge circuit is powered from the separate charge regulator which has no other purpose, it seems, than to charge the battery and regulate the AC voltage to the headlights.

The two amp fuse which is connected to the DC Accessory power in the hood harness, Red with white tracer (a two terminal rubber plug).

It gets it's power FROM the RED circuit when the ECU activates it, through the chassis -relay at a pre-determined RPM.

CHASSIS RELAY: Controls the power distribution to the chassis separate from the rest of the system. The relay will close at
a set RPM, when the system can support the chassis load, and open when engine RPM drops past a calibrated histories or 700
RPM. Voltage Boost kicks in at 700 RPM, the relay opens, the stator power is boosted and allocated to the fuel pump and ignition
components.
Red/White -- Power -- Chassis Power
Red -- Reg Out -- Regulated Power
White/Blue -- ECU -- ECU switches to Ground controls

The Main Regulator supplies power to the ECU, the Fuel pump, the injectors, ignition coils when starting. After the engine fires up.. the chassis relay is closed and the remainder of the chassis items are powered up... Those items are the 2amp acc power plug, L.E.D. Tail light/brake light. This helps the sled to start.

The 2 amp fused circuit I'm sure will handle a tad more... but I'd hate to rely on that... Especially when there is a superior power source that does NOT connect to the regulator that controls the "Vital running controls" in the sled.

That accessory plug was intended only for low amp draw circuits like heated visors and GPS or cell phone charging.

A A/F ratio gauge actually draws a fair amount of current... the heater in the sensor pulls about 4 amps!!

IMO... A good harness could simply plug into the Electric Start connector... have a small fuse block on it a Power Capacitor like those used in Car Audio systems (click)

 

[Lightspd]

Just got off the phone with my local dealer. All the turbo kits use the DC connector- that is in the velcro bag above the clutch for powering their oil pumps. Of course you should fuse anything you wire in. I always fuse my connections mainly because I don't want to be having to dig for a factory fuse when I can go quickly to the ones I already installed.

 

[mountainhorse]

I've seen where many of the turbo companies are tapping into the system...
Even though the turbo companies or others use that TEST port... I don't believe they chose a good location for it and none of them seem to put a 2amp (max) fuse on it.

If you are going to use the red/white wire circuit, why not use the one provided in the hood harness that is already fused with the max sized fuse that Polaris is OK with using as a tap into that circuit.

 

[powerfuldodge]

Reading all this is making me a little nervous. I have a a turbo on my sled , with an oil pump, A/F guage, electronic boost guage , aux injectors and a boost it box, all running from the DC PWR plug. So I was thinking I my install a relay triggered from the DC PWR plug and run a fused wire from my battery to power up all the goodies..
I think this would be a very safe route .
Does anyone have any comments on why this maybe an issue,

Thanks
Ian

 

[mountainhorse]

Great post/pics from Chadwiser.

here is where the fuse is located above clutch it says W.P.D. 14 FUSE has red with white stripe wires

 

[mountainhorse]

Reading all this is making me a little nervous. I have a a turbo on my sled , with an oil pump, A/F guage, electronic boost guage , aux injectors and a boost it box, all running from the DC PWR plug. So I was thinking I my install a relay triggered from the DC PWR plug and run a fused wire from my battery to power up all the goodies..
I think this would be a very safe route .
Does anyone have any comments on why this maybe an issue,

Thanks
Ian

Ian,

Since you have a battery... a nice clean power supply, you have a great idea... run a simple relay like you've outlined...

 

[MURFDOG]

Could I add a battery to the sled and and wire it in to keep charged within the system and run the turbo gear from the battery side? Sorry I'm clueless in the electrical dept.

 

[mountainhorse]

Yes.. but watch what battery you use... Cheap Chinese/Mexican LiPo battery or Lion batts could cause you greif.

A good battery to use would be a small 4.5 or 1.3ah (ah=amp-hour) battery... very compact and tolerant of abuse. Used often for trailer break-away activation of electric brakes.
Like in this ebay auction. (CLICKY) OR (CLICKY)

If you want Plug/Play... buy the $24 electric start harness from your dealer or online... Polaris part number 2411513.
That way... you are plugging into the main wiring harness without needing to cut/splice or use a questionable connection like the crimp on "scotch" splices.

Then you simply run that harness... and another ground wire for the battery to the chassis... then you will have a nice plug-in way to tap into a power source SEPARATE from
the ECU/Fuel pump system.



A battery is a great way to stabilize the voltage... You will need to run a relay like mentioned above that would take signal from the red/white wire (micro amps for the trigger of the relay)... that will turn your gear on when the sled starts... and not leave you with a dead/ruined battery because you left the items on. Better than a switch IMO... especially since I'm partially senile, lol.

I hope to post up more info on this topic with photos, diagrams, resources here in the near future. ... gotta do the "day job".

 

[108snowbandit]

One more question

So i am doing what we spoke about battery to fuse block. Im looking to turn fuse block on and off with the key. I would like to use a spdt 12vdc relay to turn the power on and off.

Remember i do not have electric start just a battery with the harness. Will the key switch work better to provide a ground to the relay or power to the relay once engine is started. I believe it will provide ground and more precise sensor ground do you see any thing wrong with this?