Cooke City Snow Conditions for 2022/23

[brantd]

Lots of mistakes were made, but the after fact is a beacon probably wouldn’t have save him being he was buried under 5 feet of snow. Wonder what would have been the case if he deployed his airbag?

agreed,but a beacon and knowledge would've been a good start .well and staying off slopes.i also wonder about the airbag but we will never know.its to bad,but i always revert to this should not be happening.the information is there,the technology is there i can't accept "its just one of those times"i am biker and that comes with a strong brotherhood,i feel the same about sledding.protect your brother at all costs yano

 

[powdrdaz]

I'm sorry I'm wrong on the location. This slide is just to the west of the Daisy pass. Same mountain but north west facing

 

[Ox]

I think it's safe to say everything in Cooke has avalanched.
There was a warning that day about the close to the ground weak layer.
Last years first avalanch death had a warning also.
You could say that the mountains around Cooke have the same pull to sledders as mermaids have on sailers.
They know better but they call out to you. When you ride Cooke you really need to pay attention to what is going on.
When we were teaching my nephew the area there was a meadow that was all tracked up but one little place. He took off and hit that spot and after landing 10' in front of his sled we explained to him if a meadow is tracked up put one spot it's probably a rock
Cheap lesson for him and not the same but knowing is everything

We were riding there once during a full white-out, and I dropped down into a windswirl hole. IDK
if that is normally there or not (I suspect that it is) . That was the strangest feeling as I couldn't see where I was falling to!

I too suspect that all the friends and a beacon, I still question if anything would have changed? 5' down is a long way down! Has anyone heard of annyone surviving a burial that deep?

I wonder if maybe he had too bulky of gloves to grab the rip chord?


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[Solarguy]

theres absolutely no reason for avalanche deaths these days,dude had an undepolyed air bag backpack but him nor his buddy had a beacon?so they had probes,a shovel and airbag backpacks.....am I'm the only one the sees the clear failure here or am i dumb?

The reason people die in avalanches are because they were caught in one then hit something (trees) or were buried deep in the debris field. Air bags and beacons save some but not all. Many have died with air bags deployed and while wearing a beacon. Get caught in an avalanche and you might die, beacon and air bag might not save your life. Those are the facts.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Pretty simple and why snowmobilers ignore them more than skiers I don’t know but they do. When the report is bad and you dig and it’s bad you stay off and out from under steep slopes that have the right conditions to slide! Easy . Take a course. Their fun and you get to learn. Go to Rasmussen in island park. You go on a tour of actual fatalities and real world terrain. There are several in Cooke city! My best guess is he had bought an older bag without a canister and hadn’t got the canister or it was flat. Not everyone can buy a 1200 dollar Klim. I’ve now met two people buried 2-4 feet that survived without a backpack but good beacons and great riding partners. We lost a guy at work two years ago like you said from trauma. No guarantees in life but you can give yourself a chance. In whitewater we say ,”the right stretch of river at the right flow.” Smarter a class you’ll look at stuff and say maybe not today lol.

 

[Ox]

I'm sorry I'm wrong on the location. This slide is just to the west of the Daisy pass. Same mountain but north west facing View attachment 397982

Oh, OK, so it's on the back side after you go over Daisy then?

I don't know that we were ever on that one.


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[Pinchecharlie]

 

[HandoEX]

Oh, OK, so it's on the back side after you go over Daisy then?

I don't know that we were ever on that one.


.

No, this slide and fatality happened on the south east side of Crown Butte, not down Daisy Pass.

Avalanche Incidents | Gallatin National Forest Avalanche Center

www.mtavalanche.com

 

[christopher]

Not everyone can buy a 1200 dollar Klim.

Anyone that can afford a mountain sled, even a used one, can afford an Avy Bag, Even a USED ONE.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

Sad to see another victim; RIP to a fellow sledder. Cooke isn't inherently dangerous, if you avoid those avalanche-prone slopes. I haven't rode much there, but it's definitely a place you want someone who knows it well to show you around before you attack anything steep. I do know Crown Butte, Daisy pass, and Lulu are hot spots. If I end up riding there more often in the future, I'll be looking for someone to show me around, and I'll be treating those spots that have claimed lives like Indian burial grounds. Some people are willing to accept more risk. I'd just say to that: it's your life, but make sure you're not putting others at risk (high-marking above people in a runout zone, leading others into danger).

By far the best money spent is on an avalanche awareness course (more valuable than any set of gear, if you take the lessons to heart). I went through Six Points (https://www.avalancheclass.com/), but there are plenty of good ones. Complacency is something we all have to fight, maybe for myself especially since I don't routinely ride slide-prone areas. We as snowmobilers really should get better at assessing snowpack up close, even though that's an imperfect tool. One great point I took away from the avalanche course is that even if you don't know what to make of it, it slows you down and gets you out of the over-eager new snow giddiness. To be honest, I don't have an air bag. It's a risk assessment: I could scrounge for one, but it's twice the price of the gear I already have (gear that I'm more likely to use in a rescue), and I only occasionally venture into potential danger zones. For whatever you think of that, people have to get out of the checklist mindset. Beacon - x; shovel - x; probe - x; air bag - x; avy report yellow or better - x. Ok, lets rip! Something like half the avalanche fatalities had checked those boxes - like @Solarguy mentioned, simply getting caught in a slide has a pretty high risk of death even with all the gear and a trained crew - but the warning signs are usually present if you know how to look for them. I definitely recommend all the gear you can afford - the best gear you can afford. At the end of the day, however you have to think of it like a bulletproof vest. You'd much rather have one if you're in danger of getting shot, but avoiding and minimizing the risk in the first place should be the real goal.

 

[goridedoo]

This one is tough for me to wrap my head around. I would not leave the highway without all the proper gear, and yet there are people who go high marking on high danger days with no gear. You can't even use the naive excuse in Cooke either, there is avalanche danger stuff posted all over that town.

Imagine the helpless feeling of being buried with no beacon and knowing you are about to die, or the helpless feeling of being the buddy who gets to spend the next few hours trying to find your friends body so you can confirm he's actually dead before you call his wife or mother. It just really sucks seeing these same scenarios year after year. We all need to be better about making sure the people around us have the proper gear, along with the knowledge to use it, but better yet the knowledge to not NEED to use it. Be the guy who does a beacon check in the parking lot. Read the avalanche forecast and talk about it while you're getting ready. Take 5 minutes at lunch and make sure everyone knows how to search with a beacon.

All that said maybe the outcome of this situation could have been the same with beacons, BUT the odds of survival would have been exponentially higher with beacons.




These guys fcked up, but so does every other person involved in a slide. There WILL continue to be fck ups made every year (who knows, it very well could be me someday), the best and really only thing we can do is be prepared for those situations. Avalanches SUCK, and the discussions are morbid, but they need to be had in order to help educate people.

My condolences go out to the family, friends, and rescuers. It really is a sad situation.

 

[Solarguy]

Anyone that can afford a mountain sled, even a used one, can afford an Avy Bag, Even a USED ONE.

What is even easier and much more effective is to stay off slopes like the one where this guy was killed.
That slope is an obvious slide prone slope, they should not have been on it. Money spent should first be adequate avalanche trading and terrain awareness (also victim burial practice), without these skills an AVY pack might not help you if caught in an Avalanche. For far too many people, Beacons and AVY packs provide a false sense of safety while in Avalanche terrain. This is one of the main reasons many lose their lives in an avalanche With a Beacon And an AVY pack. Poor decisions with terrain selection. I’ve witnessed it so many time while in the backcountry riding watching guys on slopes very prone to large avalanches when conditions were ripe for a slide. When conditions are Moderate, Considerable or High the potential
for loss of life rises exponentially and educated riders should avoid all slopes steep enough to avalanche. Education and good decision making are the only way to protect ourselves. Beacons and AVY packs if needed were the result of poor decisions (in most cases) and will only sometimes save a life.
Using our brains gives us the best chance, the rest of our Avy gear is for use after F Ing up.

 

[goridedoo]

This one is tough for me to wrap my head around. I would not leave the highway without all the proper gear, and yet there are people who go high marking on high danger days with no gear. You can't even use the naive excuse in Cooke either, there is avalanche danger stuff posted all over that town.

Imagine the helpless feeling of being buried with no beacon and knowing you are about to die, or the helpless feeling of being the buddy who gets to spend the next few hours trying to find your friends body so you can confirm he's actually dead before you call his wife or mother. It just really sucks seeing these same scenarios year after year. We all need to be better about making sure the people around us have the proper gear, along with the knowledge to use it, but better yet the knowledge to not NEED to use it. Be the guy who does a beacon check in the parking lot. Read the avalanche forecast and talk about it while you're getting ready. Take 5 minutes at lunch and make sure everyone knows how to search with a beacon.

All that said maybe the outcome of this situation could have been the same with beacons, BUT the odds of survival would have been exponentially higher with beacons.




These guys fcked up, but so does every other person involved in a slide. There WILL continue to be fck ups made every year (who knows, it very well could be me someday), the best and really only thing we can do is be prepared for those situations. Avalanches SUCK, and the discussions are morbid, but they need to be had in order to help educate people.

My condolences go out to the family, friends, and rescuers. It really is a sad situation.

When typing this out this accident came to mind-

CAIC

These guys were knowledgable, and prepared. They did almost everything right, but sadly a life was still lost. Accidents happen and even those who are educated and have the proper gear are vulnerable, we need to be on top of our game when it comes to avalanche safety.

 

[Solarguy]

When typing this out this accident came to mind-

CAIC

These guys were knowledgable, and prepared. They did almost everything right, but sadly a life was still lost. Accidents happen and even those who educated and have the proper gear are vulnerable, but we STILL need to be on top of our game when it comes to avalanche safety.

Their mistake was this slope on a day with a “considerable danger” Avalanche forecast. Good reminder to all of us to always check current conditions and have an idea of the seasons snowpack, buried weak layers and etc.. We are all playing in Avalanche terrain and accidents/avalanches can occur even on a low danger forecast, weak layers deep in the snowpack can be triggered.
Also, in my experience I would guess less than half of Mountain snowmobilers “Really” know how to use their beacons, probe and shovels in the event of a worst case scenario. If you don’t practice in simulated burial conditions, you won’t be very good in a real burial or multi victim burial. When we have staged burials snd practice, many don't know what to do and would most likely not save their friend or family member in a real emergency and burial.
Hint! Practice staged burials with your riding buddies so in the event of an avalanche burial you have the best chance of saving someone’s life. I have personally lost friends and acquaintances to avalanches. I will “skip” a ride into terrain I know is exposed when the danger is considerable or high even when I know it would be epic. Those are the days that are hard to miss but I don’t want to risk losing my life. I’ve seen first hand what can happen.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Rob Kincaid arguable one of the best of his generation. Beacon Wasn’t turned on. It’s true though this stuffs just dangerous. How it is. Guy got killed getting mouse trapped! I swear I can’t hardly move or breath when iam just stuck in deep snow. To be buried would be awful. I argue with my whitewater friends when someone says ,” at least they died doing what they loved.” I allways say ,” yeah violently drownings what he loved.” Stupid really. I lost a good friend last spring in the river. Not worth it. Go fun and go home is my Moto lol!!!! Start going big and things change

 

[Solarguy]

Rob Kincaid arguable one of the best of his generation. Beacon Wasn’t turned on. It’s true though this stuffs just dangerous. How it is. Guy got killed getting mouse trapped! I swear I can’t hardly move or breath when iam just stuck in deep snow. To be buried would be awful. I argue with my whitewater friends when someone says ,” at least they died doing what they loved.” I allways say ,” yeah violently drownings what he loved.” Stupid really. I lost a good friend last spring in the river. Not worth it. Go fun and go home is my Moto lol!!!! Start going big and things change

Yes sir! Rob skipped the first step for a days ride which is a beacon check with everyone in your group. This does two things, insures that everyone’s beacon is on and in transmit and also that it is working and can be received.
This step is often forgotten by many.

 

[goridedoo]

Their mistake was this slope on a day with a “considerable danger” Avalanche forecast. Good reminder to all of us to always check current conditions and have an idea of the seasons snowpack, buried weak layers and etc.. We are all playing in Avalanche terrain and accidents/avalanches can occur even on a low danger forecast, weak layers deep in the snowpack can be triggered.
Also, in my experience I would guess less than half of Mountain snowmobilers “Really” know how to use their beacons, probe and shovels in the event of a worst case scenario. If you don’t practice in simulated burial conditions, you won’t be very good in a real burial or multi victim burial. When we have staged burials snd practice, many don't know what to do and would most likely not save their friend or family member in a real emergency and burial.
Hint! Practice staged burials with your riding buddies so in the event of an avalanche burial you have the best chance of saving someone’s life. I have personally lost friends and acquaintances to avalanches. I will “skip” a ride into terrain I know is exposed when the danger is considerable or high even when I know it would be epic. Those are the days that are hard to miss but I don’t want to risk losing my life. I’ve seen first hand what can happen.

You are not wrong, however-
That looks like the kind of stuff we would likely ride on a considerable danger day. 50 vertical feet is a small hill. Just goes to show we always need to be prepared.

I was lucky enough to do a level one course a few years ago. I would highly recommend. Prior to that I (like most) had never actually "practiced" using a beacon, probe, and shovel outside of testing a beacon in a hotel room.

 

[HandoEX]

You are not wrong, however-
That looks like the kind of stuff we would likely ride on a considerable danger day. 50 vertical feet is a small hill. Just goes to show we always need to be prepared.

I was lucky enough to do a level one course a few years ago. I would highly recommend. Prior to that I (like most) had never actually "practiced" using a beacon, probe, and shovel outside of testing a beacon in a hotel room.

500 vertical feet, not 50. The eastern and southeastern slopes of Crown butte slide every year.

 

[goridedoo]

500 vertical feet, not 50. The eastern and southeastern slopes of Crown butte slide every year.

I was referring to the Avalanche linked in post #33. Unrelated to the one on crown butte.

 

[Solarguy]

You are not wrong, however-
That looks like the kind of stuff we would likely ride on a considerable danger day. 50 vertical feet is a small hill. Just goes to show we always need to be prepared.

I was lucky enough to do a level one course a few years ago. I would highly recommend. Prior to that I (like most) had never actually "practiced" using a beacon, probe, and shovel outside of testing a beacon in a hotel room.

Really short slopes regularly catch people off guard and occasionally a fatality. The convex shown in the Avi report was exactly where you would expect a slope to break whether it is 50 or 1,500’. It only takes enough snow to bury someone and this one did. Another good lesson and reminder, even short slopes can an do slide and have the potential to bury you. Small gullies & creek bottoms with steep sides that we sidehill can be terrain traps when they slide, many are unaware their terrain choices which are seemingly safe can be a perfect storm to bury them. Lots to learn about avalanches/slides and the terrain they happen in. I’ve been playing in the mountains for over 50 years and read every avalanche accident report I can. Educational and so unpredictable at times, the one common denominator is the terrain. Almost always 30 degree or more slopes, short or tall.