Yes swampy, of course you are never responsible... lol
tangent? nah, just a response right? lol
nope, that is the only way to fix the problem. Though, the problem is much much more then entitlements...
congress and the debt ceiling..
- Thread starter ruffryder
- Start date
you should start a new thread for that...
Swampy, the probem with the true conservatives and tea partiers is they have jumped farther from the middle than they have ever been. Taxes are the lowest they have
ever been on the rich and the corporations, excuse me: the job creators.
We can talk about cutting spending all we want but the fact of the matter is the rich and corp's are going to have to feel the pain like everybody else.
Why should they be excluded from the pain?
Reagan was smart enough to realize that taxes needed to be raised at one point in time. Same with the Smart Bush. What happened then?
I can't see screwing the middle class and the elderly anymore without a little help from the big cats.
ever been on the rich and the corporations, excuse me: the job creators.
We can talk about cutting spending all we want but the fact of the matter is the rich and corp's are going to have to feel the pain like everybody else.
Why should they be excluded from the pain?
Reagan was smart enough to realize that taxes needed to be raised at one point in time. Same with the Smart Bush. What happened then?
I can't see screwing the middle class and the elderly anymore without a little help from the big cats.
What my gripes are with Barrack:
-Not ending the Bush tax cuts
-Not ending the wars quicker. He has been working on a pullout plan and I give him credit for actually having one but I think he is playing politics too much and you will see more troops coming home closer to the election (can't say I blame him but why not now?)
-Not ending the Bush tax cuts
-Not ending the wars quicker. He has been working on a pullout plan and I give him credit for actually having one but I think he is playing politics too much and you will see more troops coming home closer to the election (can't say I blame him but why not now?)
Well maybe we want to keep the jobs in the US. With the combined federal and state taxes the burden on corps in the US is about 40%. Canada's rate is 15% and China's rate is 25%, in a communist country. Maybe that is why Ford built it's newest biggest and most efficient plant in Brazil. If we don't learn the fact that the problem is not tax reform it is spending reform we will have no industry left in the country and youl have to pay 90% to feed the ravenous appetite of those arrogant elites in government. Get rid of the waste and fraud and you will get a tax cut! The other problem is the corps who operate overseas can not bring the profits back to the US or the taxes will eat them up, is it any wonder we are starved fior capital. Swampy
OK...so no one wants to blame Obama....how do account for the Nat Debt going up 1.6 Trillion under 8 years of Bush while it has gone up 4.1 Trillion since Hussein took office. ??
Are the handounts (bailout) to Inc co's, banks, morgtgage industry, auto mfr's etc....considered an entitlement since they were just handed our $$ for nothing more than being a failure? Perhaps some of it could be called a loan, but most will likely never be paid back. Would the debt ceiling even need to be raised if it wasn't for this spending?
Medicare, cade, SS are all considered entitlements by the govt...not sure I completely agree since we pay into the system, but that is where the added costs are mostly coming from and will rise alot more as OBcare kicks in...or so they say. People are just living too long.
Are the handounts (bailout) to Inc co's, banks, morgtgage industry, auto mfr's etc....considered an entitlement since they were just handed our $$ for nothing more than being a failure? Perhaps some of it could be called a loan, but most will likely never be paid back. Would the debt ceiling even need to be raised if it wasn't for this spending?
Medicare, cade, SS are all considered entitlements by the govt...not sure I completely agree since we pay into the system, but that is where the added costs are mostly coming from and will rise alot more as OBcare kicks in...or so they say. People are just living too long.
S
snowmobiler
Well-known member
In 2006, then Senator Barack Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling.That year, the National Debt was $8,506,973,899,215.
Now, in 2010, the National Debt stands at a historic high of $14,010,072,800,000 and President Barack Obama is pushing for Congress to raise the debt ceiling.
Now, in 2010, the National Debt stands at a historic high of $14,010,072,800,000 and President Barack Obama is pushing for Congress to raise the debt ceiling.
sept of 2001 debt was 5.8 trillion, sept of 2008 debt was 10 trillion, sept of 2009 debt was 12 trillion, sept of 2010 13.5 trillion.
debt increased under Bush was about 4.2 trillion, debt increased by Obama, 3.5 trillion.
data location
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm
Something that people might not realize is that the federal income decreased by a large amount during the 2008 - 2010 time span.
from http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com, using their customizable chart options
Looks like a decrease in revenue of about 1 trillion dollars? So even if no changes to government were to happen, there would be an increase of debt by 1 trillion for year 2009, and another .5 trillion for 2010. I would be curious to see what amount of this income reduction is due to the slowing down of the economy, and what is due to all the tax cuts.
Does this make deficits ok? No, not at all...
If you are talking about TARP, I believe that most of it has already been paid back.
So is that it then? the two medical groups and SS, those are were the big budget problems with our government come from? I would agree, but also add the defense budget in there as well.
I think a better statement would be people are just living too long for the amount of money that they are paying in.
D
DOO DAWG
Well-known member
These guys literally STOLE billions from the American Taxpayers! We so need term limits!
U.S. Government Ends Chrysler Investment With $1.3 Billion Loss
Published July 21, 2011
| FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/21/us-government-ends-chrysler-investment/
The U.S government has sold its shares in Chrysler LLC at a likely loss of $1.3 billion in taxpayer money, the Treasury Department said Thursday, announcing the end of a controversial investment that resurrected the troubled auto company.
Italian automaker Fiat SpA, which has run the company since it emerged from bankruptcy protection in June 2009, purchased the U.S. government's remaining 98,000 shares in the auto company for $560 million.
The financial loss irritated Republican lawmakers.
"I am deeply disturbed to learn that the Obama administration left $1.3 billion taxpayer dollars on the table in resolving its bailout of Chrysler," said Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.
"The administration has sold out an American icon to a foreign company using TARP funds underwritten by taxpayers. Now they are essentially give that same company $1.3 billion of taxpayer money," he said.
"At a time when American taxpayers must make tough choices to repay their mortgages -- even on houses worth less than they paid -- it is unfathomable that Italian automaker Fiat and its subsidiary Chrysler got away with repaying less than the full amount borrowed from the U.S. government," he added...................................
U.S. Government Ends Chrysler Investment With $1.3 Billion Loss
Published July 21, 2011
| FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/21/us-government-ends-chrysler-investment/
The U.S government has sold its shares in Chrysler LLC at a likely loss of $1.3 billion in taxpayer money, the Treasury Department said Thursday, announcing the end of a controversial investment that resurrected the troubled auto company.
Italian automaker Fiat SpA, which has run the company since it emerged from bankruptcy protection in June 2009, purchased the U.S. government's remaining 98,000 shares in the auto company for $560 million.
The financial loss irritated Republican lawmakers.
"I am deeply disturbed to learn that the Obama administration left $1.3 billion taxpayer dollars on the table in resolving its bailout of Chrysler," said Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.
"The administration has sold out an American icon to a foreign company using TARP funds underwritten by taxpayers. Now they are essentially give that same company $1.3 billion of taxpayer money," he said.
"At a time when American taxpayers must make tough choices to repay their mortgages -- even on houses worth less than they paid -- it is unfathomable that Italian automaker Fiat and its subsidiary Chrysler got away with repaying less than the full amount borrowed from the U.S. government," he added...................................
S
snowmobiler
Well-known member
Senate Democrats warn the plan is dead on arrival on their side of Capitol Hill even if it passes the House.
S
snowmobiler
Well-known member
"likely loss of $1.3 billion in taxpayer money."
Who doesn't? Repeal bull$hit legislation like NAFTA, that would be a start.
I love it when the right uses "Socialist" principles and then calls Ocrapo a Socialist. As a country, we can't have the amount of Defense spending and have tax rates like Canada. If you go back in history, everytime there have been tax cuts, we eventually get to this same exact place everytime. Smart people realize more revenue is needed and then surpluses occur.
I would argue the benefits from NAFTA legislation for the corps and much cheaper wages would be the bigger reason the auto mfr's and other companies are building more factories south of the border and in ohter countries.
I would argue that corporate tax loopholes have more due to do with less tax revenue than the actual tax rate. What did GE pay in corporate taxes last year? 40% corp taxes in the US? That's a joke!
Obama has just as much blame as Bush IMO as does Clinton. He's a corporate Democrat. He doesn't know how to lead. We need real leadership for the middle class and small business in this country. All he knows how to do is whine in front of the cameras. "He got left at the altar?" "He can't get return phone calls?" He's a joke! As were Bush and Clinton.
However, I do believe EVERYBODY needs to make concessions and his idea on this is better than the far right wing.
"So it is going to save the govt money, and the govt is then going to use that money for something else. Where did the 1 trillion increase in costs come from? Isn't this a good thing? Increased benefits to the population being paid for by the govt saving money?"
I guess this is the difference in how liberals and conservatives interpret the same thing....you are saying "savings" and diverting the "savings" to entitlements so it's basically not costing anything.
I look at it different.....how can it be "saving" when it is being paid for with borrowed money? I would say "savings" is really just "less in debt".
When you are paying bills with a loan, how can you "save" anything... any money left over or "saved" should either not be borrowed in the first place, be used to pay down the massive debt.
If you pay 40% of your electric bill on credit every month and then cut your power use by 20%....are you able to "save"?
Then again I'm a simple minded Boeing worker and my Union shops designated Obama hater so I am biased.
I guess this is the difference in how liberals and conservatives interpret the same thing....you are saying "savings" and diverting the "savings" to entitlements so it's basically not costing anything.
I look at it different.....how can it be "saving" when it is being paid for with borrowed money? I would say "savings" is really just "less in debt".
When you are paying bills with a loan, how can you "save" anything... any money left over or "saved" should either not be borrowed in the first place, be used to pay down the massive debt.
If you pay 40% of your electric bill on credit every month and then cut your power use by 20%....are you able to "save"?
Then again I'm a simple minded Boeing worker and my Union shops designated Obama hater so I am biased.
Tax cuts have not done well at producing jobs here because they havn't taken the additional steps needed like cutting spending and eliminating roadblocks for new or expanding business....they encourage job growth overseas and to the south with things like NAFTA, excessive EPA regulations, permits etc...
Check out what Puerto Rico did and what other states have done to spur job growth in conjunction with tax cuts.....I don't have a link but will look for one, there was a TV show on it recently.
Check out what Puerto Rico did and what other states have done to spur job growth in conjunction with tax cuts.....I don't have a link but will look for one, there was a TV show on it recently.
I didn't mean to say not costing anything, just that it is not INCREASING costs, which the article seemed to state, that costs were going to increase a trillion dollars (or rather entitlements were going to increase 1 trillion). I looked at the net difference in costs, which seemed to be zero, and which it seemed the article stated was 1 trillion.
I guess if the article was not against the govt taking over the loan program (the part that was going to save money) but against the increase to pell grants (the part that was going to spend the savings) then it might be more accurate with what you are saying. The article was against both (the savings and the costs, the net effect).
Did this clarification help?
S
snowmobiler
Well-known member
20% loans might jumpstart the economy.change.
Since this thread is going all directions...LOL..
An interesting stat from the news last night....during the first 4 years of the bush tax cuts, incoming revenue increased 44%....hmmm...cut taxes and get more revenue.
No wonder Obama kept the tax cuts, he likes to spend money.
This was from a rep. while speaking to the house so I would assume it's fairly accurate.
An interesting stat from the news last night....during the first 4 years of the bush tax cuts, incoming revenue increased 44%....hmmm...cut taxes and get more revenue.
No wonder Obama kept the tax cuts, he likes to spend money.This was from a rep. while speaking to the house so I would assume it's fairly accurate.
D
DOO DAWG
Well-known member
These idiots Just DON'T get it do they? They don't care how they break our nation. Like right now theirs is the most important issue in the good ole USA. Monitoring the enemy is so fun!
Anybody gonna give?
Dear Jim,
Brown_Bear_Cub
Disastrous House Bill Set to Launch Attack on wilderness and the Wild Life that Calls it Home.
Help us Stop Them. Please make a donation today.
No one was elected to plunder America’s precious wild lands. But the bill that is still pending a House of Representatives vote amounts to exactly that.
This runaway Congress can and MUST be stopped before our natural wonders are lost forever. Please donate now.
They want you to believe the budget battle is about principle and ideology. In reality it’s about greed, private gain and the influence of special interest money in Washington at the expense of those who need the most help…including animals that count on our voices to represent them in Congress.
No one was elected to wreak destruction on America’s precious wild lands. This cannot stand.
* No one was elected to turn a million acres of land surrounding the Grand Canyon into a uranium mine;
* No one was elected to open millions of acres of pristine forests, grasslands, rivers and lakes to mining, drilling, grazing and clear-cutting for timber; and
* No one was elected to launch an assault on clean air and water, and on the legacy we leave to our children.
One out of control Congress could reverse more than a century of bi-partisan protection of America’s natural heritage. The winners? A handful of polluters and exploiters. The losers are our children, who may never experience the grandeur and inspiration of unspoiled nature… and the wildlife whose habitats will become even more imperiled.
Eventually the harmful provisions in this bill will become part of a negotiation with the Senate. Once that happens there will be a bruising and bitter fight and we’ll need to rely on our allies in the House, the Senate, and the White House to protect our priorities and stop these reckless assaults on wilderness.
We need your help to fight back and ensure that our voice is heard loud and clear. Your donation today is essential to our success.
With your help, Wilderness Society experts and activists are speaking truth to power. We’re alerting the media and the public to the destructive binge unfolding on Capitol Hill. We’re using the Internet to mobilize hundreds of thousands of Americans to express their outrage and demand a stop to the pillage. We’re putting Congress on notice that they will be held accountable for what amounts to an unconscionable giveaway of our most precious natural places.
Thanks to you and others in the Wild Alert community who are remaining vigilant, we have a chance to stop this. But we don’t have a moment to lose!
Please donate today.
Thank you for all you do on behalf of America’s wild treasures.
Melanie Beller
Vice President, Public Policy _______________
Anybody gonna give?
Dear Jim,
Brown_Bear_Cub
Disastrous House Bill Set to Launch Attack on wilderness and the Wild Life that Calls it Home.
Help us Stop Them. Please make a donation today.
No one was elected to plunder America’s precious wild lands. But the bill that is still pending a House of Representatives vote amounts to exactly that.
This runaway Congress can and MUST be stopped before our natural wonders are lost forever. Please donate now.
They want you to believe the budget battle is about principle and ideology. In reality it’s about greed, private gain and the influence of special interest money in Washington at the expense of those who need the most help…including animals that count on our voices to represent them in Congress.
No one was elected to wreak destruction on America’s precious wild lands. This cannot stand.
* No one was elected to turn a million acres of land surrounding the Grand Canyon into a uranium mine;
* No one was elected to open millions of acres of pristine forests, grasslands, rivers and lakes to mining, drilling, grazing and clear-cutting for timber; and
* No one was elected to launch an assault on clean air and water, and on the legacy we leave to our children.
One out of control Congress could reverse more than a century of bi-partisan protection of America’s natural heritage. The winners? A handful of polluters and exploiters. The losers are our children, who may never experience the grandeur and inspiration of unspoiled nature… and the wildlife whose habitats will become even more imperiled.
Eventually the harmful provisions in this bill will become part of a negotiation with the Senate. Once that happens there will be a bruising and bitter fight and we’ll need to rely on our allies in the House, the Senate, and the White House to protect our priorities and stop these reckless assaults on wilderness.
We need your help to fight back and ensure that our voice is heard loud and clear. Your donation today is essential to our success.
With your help, Wilderness Society experts and activists are speaking truth to power. We’re alerting the media and the public to the destructive binge unfolding on Capitol Hill. We’re using the Internet to mobilize hundreds of thousands of Americans to express their outrage and demand a stop to the pillage. We’re putting Congress on notice that they will be held accountable for what amounts to an unconscionable giveaway of our most precious natural places.
Thanks to you and others in the Wild Alert community who are remaining vigilant, we have a chance to stop this. But we don’t have a moment to lose!
Please donate today.
Thank you for all you do on behalf of America’s wild treasures.
Melanie Beller
Vice President, Public Policy _______________
Funny how nobody touched the Reagan/Smart Bush comment I made earlier.
The U.S Corporate Tax rate is 35% however, what is the percentage of US corporations who pay ZERO? Could we lower the tax rate and can the loopholes?
Maybe we could be like Canada or China (Socialist countries) and lower the rate but can the loopholes?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/economy/03rates.html
How can anybody rightously defend this?
The U.S Corporate Tax rate is 35% however, what is the percentage of US corporations who pay ZERO? Could we lower the tax rate and can the loopholes?
Maybe we could be like Canada or China (Socialist countries) and lower the rate but can the loopholes?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/economy/03rates.html
How can anybody rightously defend this?
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