Lefty libbies don't want to hear that logic.
Hands over ears singing lalalalalalalalalalala.
Climate change
- Thread starter Mafesto
- Start date
Lefty libbies don't want to hear that logic.
Hands over ears singing lalalalalalalalalalala.
So you think the fossil fuel industry isn't dumping Yuge amounts of money into convincing people that mankind has no effect? Seems like any other funded study, which side has more to lose? A lot of people, probably the same ones that deny man made impact on climate, believed the tobacco companies when they said cigarette smoking wasn't harmful...
If humans have no effect on the atmosphere I challenge anyone to explain in their own words how the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has gone from 280 ppm in 1850 to over 400 in 2017 and is still rising rapidly all on its own.
The scientific community has the most to lose, if they cant prove they're worth by alarming people they will lose all funding. Fossil fuel industry will just pass its costs on to the consumer.
Yes, the scientific community has never produced anything of value, their only option is to scare everyone into funding.
Not like NASA is directly responsible for many of the things we take for granted in our everyday lives or anything...
I just wrote a MUCH longer more involved post but my computer auto updated and shut off and deleted it, alas.
I know this is Obama so... basically it doesn't mean anything to most of you guys.
Something is busted with the embedding right now...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xkph033WHM
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Jaynelson
Well-known member
I'm quite surprised some of you guys actually believe that the billions of people on this planet, and all the stuff we manufacture, consume, dispose, etc, etc, etc ..... have 0 negative effect on the planet, air, flora/fauna, other people, etc. I didn't really think that was up for debate, but you learn something everyday I suppose.
Whether you believe it, don't believe it, whatever....one thing we know for certain, is that any action whatsoever has affects/consequences. So to think that human consumption/output has 0 affect is just completely irrational, even at the basic level of logic. Like others have said....you can argue the amount, or the extent...but it's obviously not affecting the earth in a positive way.
I get that people feel threatened by the notion that they are part of the problem, and don't necessarily want to see more regulation stemming from it. I'm in that same boat and absolutely burn my share of fuel - BUT I do have faith that humans are resourceful and inventive enough to continue their travel, lifestyle, activities, whatever, even if the means to do so changes/evolves over time. On one hand, I hate regulation as much as the next guy .... but on the other hand, there is unlimited evidence that many people are just too stupid to figure out simple stuff on their own.
I don't believe one doomsday more than another .... the world's not going to end tomorrow if nothing changes, but the economy and your lifestyle aren't going to crumble tomorrow because things need to evolve/improve either. That said, ultimately one of those threats IS larger than the other, and I reeaaallly hope we never get to the point where we "find out" how much is too much. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes....always rings true.
Whether you believe it, don't believe it, whatever....one thing we know for certain, is that any action whatsoever has affects/consequences. So to think that human consumption/output has 0 affect is just completely irrational, even at the basic level of logic. Like others have said....you can argue the amount, or the extent...but it's obviously not affecting the earth in a positive way.
I get that people feel threatened by the notion that they are part of the problem, and don't necessarily want to see more regulation stemming from it. I'm in that same boat and absolutely burn my share of fuel - BUT I do have faith that humans are resourceful and inventive enough to continue their travel, lifestyle, activities, whatever, even if the means to do so changes/evolves over time. On one hand, I hate regulation as much as the next guy .... but on the other hand, there is unlimited evidence that many people are just too stupid to figure out simple stuff on their own.
I don't believe one doomsday more than another .... the world's not going to end tomorrow if nothing changes, but the economy and your lifestyle aren't going to crumble tomorrow because things need to evolve/improve either. That said, ultimately one of those threats IS larger than the other, and I reeaaallly hope we never get to the point where we "find out" how much is too much. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes....always rings true.
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All We Need To Do Is Hang On For 13 Years
https://astronomynow.com/2015/07/17/diminishing-solar-activity-may-bring-new-ice-age-by-2030/
https://astronomynow.com/2015/07/17/diminishing-solar-activity-may-bring-new-ice-age-by-2030/
I would love to hear how you quantify that PPM number. Once again, simply a theoretical number. Think about actually measuring that. Where is that reading from? China? Greenland? Brazil? Australia? I'm not denying humans have an effect on our climate, mainly due to water use and diversion, not from carbon emissions. Until there is a drastic population decline or stabilization, it's out of our hands. No sense in crippling ourselves economically for nothing.
Ever hear of the term "average"? That's what the global co2 concentration is based on. Here's a link to NASA, I tend to trust rocket scientists more than oil companies and talk radio hosts. https://climate.nasa.gov/system/resources/detail_files/24_co2-graph-021116-768px.jpg
Try doing a little reading on the subject. I posted quite a few good links that talk about how this stuff is measured.
So your telling me the instrumentation we had in 1850 to measure CO2 levels is as accurate as what we use to measure today? Well that sounds completely believable. I don't know why anyone would even question those findings.
Considering they are testing air from 1850 that was preserved in ice using today's instruments http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/ice-cores/ice-core-basics/ I'd say their accuracy is pretty darn good.
I find it both funny and horrifying that people will not believe a testing procedure this simple and accurate but will trust anything that donny tells em. Read how ice core sampling works from a blank non political perspective and tell me with a straight face that it's not accurate.
Since you likely don't understand how thunder occurs do you think that it's an old man sitting on a cloud with very bad gas?
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Jaynelson
Well-known member
You better phone the science people, they probably didn't think of that!! LolSo your telling me the instrumentation we had in 1850 to measure CO2 levels is as accurate as what we use to measure today? Well that sounds completely believable. I don't know why anyone would even question those findings.
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Bacon
Well-known member
You guys are right. We need to all stop using internal combustion engines. All coal plants should be shut down. If we don't the earth will burst into flames in 20 years. Kind of like how the scientists told us there would be coastal cities under water by now. Some of you must feel so guilty getting in your vehicle to go to work every day. You should defiantly quit snowmobiling. Do you realize how much pollution you are causing. If some of you feel so strongly about climate change, what are you doing about it? I would guess I do more about CO2 than most of you. I plant trees, no-till all my land to help with carbon sequestering. Rotational graze all our pasture. If you feel this strong about this, give up your things that are causing the CO2 to rise. In other words put up or shut up.
Ding ding ding! Probably one of the simplest most well put posts on the subject to date.
This is like waking up one day and going...
"Ya know, drinking a 6 pack and smoking cigarettes every day is probably not good for me."
"Well, since they don't know exactly how bad it is for me, might as well not stop."
"My uncles cousin smoked a pack a day and lived till 100, so im not going to stop" - This is the same as saying, well, we had a record snow pack this year, nothing is happening. micro vs macro.
Like Jay said, Im no saint, and nobody in here is either, I drive a lifted diesel truck, have 2 sleds and a dirtbike (all 2 stroke) and I play more then most. The point is it is ignorant we as a society can continue to live this insanely wasteful and inefficient ways and not expect it to be a problem in the future.
I, like anyone else am not saying the sky is falling. But like SO many other people have made the point, what risk is their in trying to constantly improve and move away from our less efficient technology? If we can't even acknowledge a problem how would we ever fix it?
This all or nothing approach and ensuing sarcasm is pretty much why America has been spinning its tires and moving somewhat backwards for the last decade or so. Extremism fixes nothing on ANY project.
We (snowesters) are far from 'enviro-nazi's' we ride sleds for ****s sake. The point being is an active attempt to continue to learn and make changes and progress in the right direction is key.
I don't have the exact answers about how to solve these problems, thats not what I do. I am merely stating that if at a national and international level if we continue to deny the affects and problems created by humans on this planet there is so little hope for moving towards better and more efficient technology.
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Jaynelson
Well-known member
This is why I hate discussing anything like this on this site. You're automatically either A or Z and middle ground doesn't exist. Republican or hippie socialist that lives in a tree. Why does believing that climate change exists (and is influenced by humans) automatically jump you to being an eco-terrorist hell bent on economic and societal collapse? Like I said before....I don't understand feeling so threatened simply by acknowledging something so obvious.
Just like WHM said above....my position is that, yes, it definitely IS a problem, and is going to require constant improvement/innovation to keep in check. Luckily, most of the 1st world acknowledges this and IS constantly working on it (and has been for decades). It won't be a catastrophe overnight anymore than it will be "fixed" overnight, but for the world (at least the parts of it with the ability) to do nothing would just be dumb.
What do I personally do? Probably the same as many people....recycle everything I can, buy/sell 2nd hand items as much as I can, try not to buy useless junk, try not to be wasteful, try to buy local, grow as big a garden as we can reasonably keep up with, don't have a bus full of kids. Try and keep sh!t running clean and don't pour oil down the storm sewer. But I still like to party....and I draw the line on public transit lol.
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Bacon
Well-known member
The USA can go broke cleaning everything up we can. Guess what. The rest of the world doesn't give a rats ***. China will still pollute and have too many people to feed. Everyone wants clean air and no pollution. Till you get the rest of the world to follow suit you are spinning your wheels. I don't think anyone wants a polluted environment but spending $2 to save $1 is not the answer. And your all a bunch of hippies. 
