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Bagged cop killer

  • Thread starter Thread starter 4Z
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Is this about the police, or a race thing..........

I am happy the way this terrible thing ended! My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the four police who were murdered, and lets not forget the one a few weeks ago. But did anyone else notice all of the police were white, and the two cop killers were not. Does anybody else have these same questions? ????????? -KB
 
I am happy the way this terrible thing ended! My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the four police who were murdered, and lets not forget the one a few weeks ago. But did anyone else notice all of the police were white, and the two cop killers were not. Does anybody else have these same questions? ????????? -KB

By default, there are more white cops. It's just a cross section of society. The Seattle killer was mixed...so you can call him anything you want. The terms 'black' 'white' 'asian' 'hispanic', used by the system are reflective of what they would appear to be at a quick glance. Met plenty of folks that were pizzed if you called them 'white' because it wasn't cool, even when they were paler than I.

So onto the question, it's probably just a coincidence due to statistics. Two mental douche bags, looking for uniforms. You'll find that most people that 'hate' police, are angry at the uniform and see a sea of blue..not individuals.

Lot's of good posts in here the past month... times like this remind many of how vulnerable they are; reflective of the service that many give so that they may continue their lifestyle.

Lot to think about, for me, during this. Brings back some pretty powerful memories.

RIP Antonio:rose:
 
Good post EW.

Also, with regards to your "rant" a-la HILL STREET BLUES, it was first Sgt. Phil Esterhouse as watch Sgt. giving the shift briefing to his officers with the now famous words, "....let's be careful out there." When Mike Conrad (the actor who played Esterhouse) died, Sgt. Lucy bates took over his watch.

I'm "old" too.

My dog is named "Captain Fur-illo" by the way.....

Stovebolt
Team Ruptured Buzzard
http://www.webspawner.com/users/noflinch/
****************************************


Alright, rant over, "lets be careful out there". (can't remember the shift Sgt. from Hill Street Blues). I'm old. EW
 
Thanks...

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Thanks for the level-headed views & input..!!..

good discussion and thread...

Thank you to any Police, Fire & Military here on the board... we need your service to keep us free & safe..!!..

I'm praying for all the families involved in these murders... 5 officers in a month is bad...

and also for the witnesses to this crime... the other customers & employees will never forget this either... ugh... makes me sick...

Nike Holley
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Torture the guy in front of the police force next time. That'l teach him, sloooow and painfull. Glad hes dead, i work at starbucks and have had the same (very nice and funny) cops come in for over a year, when i heard about this i was thinking mabey they shouldnt come in, for their own sake, everyone around knows they come in every night for a good hour or two, i would hate for something bad to happen to these guys just because someone had some beef with them. My gratitude and thoughts go out to the 4 wifes and 9 children left fatherless, may the Force stay strong and watch eachothers backs. -Eazy.
 
i just wanna say great thread and that my heart is with all the familys goin thru this i am glad i have gotten the chance to meet a couple of the officers that got shot they have stoped by our rental shop and hung out from time to time i will miss them
 
How would the situation have been different if 5 other folks (civilians) in that coffee shop were armed, and TRAINED on how to use their weapon effectively?

I missed this part of your post on my first read through PE. Sorry. This to me is one of the best points made in this thread. I could not agree more, yet I hadn't thought of it until I read it.

I can't think of an easier way for one of us (if you are the type of person who is confident and comfortable) to contribute to these changing times and the risks that are coming with them than to get a good hand get and get yurself trained in how to carry, store, and use it. We do it all the time for other things i.e. First Aid/CPR, Avy's, Block Watch, dog obedience, hell I've taken classes on safe/tasty BBQ'ing.

I can't think of a more important thing that a member of the general public can do to insure the safety of themselves, their families, and their neighbors. I am in no way saying that every person out there should be strapped, but there are many of us who possess the ability and responsibility to safely and effectively carry a weapon that in most cases by its presence alone will deter otherwise dangerous situations.

It takes some clear thinking, discipline, and a load of responsibilty to be a gun owner/carrier. It takes some effort and time/$$$ investment. But for those that are willing, trained, and qualified to do so it could result in lives being saved, including your own.

Great point Polar. EW

ps, great call on Sgt. Esterhouse stovebolt, I could hear his voice when I typed the words. lol. You don't by chance remember the name of Dudley Do-Right's horse, that one has escaped me for years?
 
cop murderers

Just would like to add my friendly .02 about why it may seem Police Officers take the murder of their own more serious than the average citizen.....

As a cop, I can tell you that is not necessarily true. I have worked Homicide and we spent many a nights sleepless, chasing leads and deadends to find some low life who has taken the life of another. To see the innocent murdered by a careless person takes some years off your life, I promise you that.

However, I would tell you that when the "Hunter's" become the hunted....the citizens of our communities could not be in greater danger. Think about how much of a lunatic you have to be to approach and murder 4 Police Officers in cold blood, while they are eating breakfast, working on their computers. Every ounce of energy in that department has to be spent chasing this type of maggot until he is dead.....

Unfortunately, I have chased a murderous *@%hole who has killed one of my own and it is very challenging to keep your wits about you while looking for this type of predator. You can only imagine what types of thoughts are going through your head.

To add about the justice system......
It is a complete FAILURE in our country right now. We are working on a proposition to our legislature in Nevada to fix some of these problems. Tell me if this sounds too out of whack...
My belief is that if you are out on bail for a felony or you are currently on Parole or Probation and you commit another felony offense, you are held in the jail WITHOUT BAIL. This would allow the judge to hear all the pending cases against you and address the fact you were already on Parole or Probation and still acting like an idiot.
Our system needs revamping extremely bad. We do not need new laws, we just need to enforce and uphold the good ones we have now.
Nothing will ever prevent Police Officers from being murdered in the future, we go into this profession knowing it can happen anytime. I will offer all of you this in closing...

I know nobody likes to get a ticket from a cop; no one likes to be told by a cop to be quiet when they are investigating a crime; no one likes to have their freedom taken away from them by going to jail, but the next time you see a Police Officer in a coffee shop or somewhere out in public where you have a moment, tell them thanks for what they do.....
I can tell you in 15 years of working in this profession, I have been personally thanked by someone just walking down the street, ONE TIME and that was after the 9-11 attacks....
Guys and gals, we (cops) are a target for everyones anger but we continue to do this job cause we care about YOU and YOUR families and without any thought will lay our life down for you or them any given moment... I tell my wife that if I leave her without a husband or my children without a father, please know someone else got the chance to live and for that, being a cop is a rewarding calling in life.
God bless all the cops in this country who have died a hero this year and will continue to do so for the protection of our freedoms.
 
Palmerc,

One more thanks to you from a citizen for being on the job.

Dave Jankowsky
Victor, Idaho
aka "Stovebolt"
 
Citizens Academies

All,

For any of you who may be interested, check your local PD's to see if they offer Citizen Academy's in your area. When I lived in Bellingham and was working on my first novel - a fact-based work of fiction centering on contemporary American Law Enforcement, I had a chance to attend a really fine Citizen's Academy sponsored by the Bellingham Police Department. No, these are not like going through a bona fide academy as a cadet - they aren't meant to be. They are a community outreach program. The academy I attended was very well thought out, polished, and staffed and instructed by extremely professional Officers, Investigators, forensics agents and administrators. It lasted for weeks and weeks - it was long ago and I don't remember the length. (Not as long as my street academy when I was on the job, which was longer ago than that........stretching waaaay back before the turn of the millenium.)

Anyway, for what it might be worth - these are sometimes offered in more populated communities with more progressive PD's/SO's. You meet some interesting people, among them the other citizen attendees.

Oh, the price of admission in our case was $zero dollars.

Stovebolt

ps - EW, I apologize for not being able to recall the name of Dudley Do-Right's horse - I only remember him trying to defend Nell from the unwanted advances of Snydley Whiplash. Had to love those RCMP pants though....

pss - Data points for clarification, from a certain perspective - FWIW:

We have not dwealt in a society with a working "justice system" in a long, long while. We have a legal system, but we do not operate within a society with a justice system, the fact that you can attend a college program and get a degree in "Criminal Justice" notwithstanding.

We are ALL - each and every one of us - CITIZENS, and therefore CIVILIANS. (Excepting illegal aliens and anybody else not supposed to be on our shores.) This includes all Peace and Police Officers. LE operates within a paramilitary structure, with organizational lines that are similar to military institutions - but these LE Departments are not military entities. LE is a civilian profession, industry, profession, and calling. Members of the Armed Forces on active duty are NOT civilians (while they do remain CITIZENS, of course.) Military personnel are en guarde of the civilian populous.

LE has a mandate to protect and serve the PUBLIC. They do not have a mandate to protect any given private citizen or business interest. Study this difference. For the rest of your life.
 
Palmerc, good to go and others who have responded with your experience on the force or a connected agency. Thanks for your commitment and your responses.

I actively participate with a number of agencies in the greater Seattle area in the forensics mapping groups and coincidentally I am very active with a number of them right now and had the opportunity to talk about this subject since I made my first posted observations. Pretty much down the line, the first response by each officer was right along the lines of what Palmerc said, in that this type of person is a larger threat to a larger group of people when he doesn't fear or care about directly fighting the police. This brought a sense of connection to you guys that I was missing before. It's not just your own that bring such a strong response, but that these people are the worst of the worst and need to be dealt with more quickly than the others for the safety of the larger group of people.

I do wish we could see as large of a response by both the agencies involved and our general public when some kid get's stolen. As stated before, getting more involved and trained will be the real solution or direction to see change. Now if we can just get the courts to stand behind a citizen that shoots one of these animals when it's needed and not throw them in jail, then it would seem to have a balance even more.
 
I completely agree with the outcome and share the outrage at what this scum did. Justice was served swiftly and righteously in this case.

It is a normal reaction to be outraged, be emotionally charged, seek answers, try to understand why this happened and take action to keep it from ever happening again. We all agree on that.

Yet I take offense to all this America BASHING. OUR country is one of the greatest in all of world history. Please don't disrespect all of our country's legacy because of this one incident.

This person was taken off the streets for 108 years at age 16. His crimes included burglary and assault, not "just" stealing six packs, like that is not a crime too!

Everything since then happened because he was freed by Huckaby. Where is the outrage at his action? What because he shares our values or has an R after his name he gets a free pass for his involvement in this? No! I hold him to a higher standard because he knows better.

I cannot believe a mayor, who took an oath to defend our laws and protect our citizens dismisses the rule of law so easily by turning a blind eye and then proudly boasts about it on here. The ends does NOT justify the means. Breaking the a law in the name of enforcing the law undermines our whole judicial system and moral code and leads to the technicalities that let these criminals get off.

Our system is complicated because it has to be. Our FREEDOM is out stake and it must error on the side of our freedom. Without these messy technicalities we could all be imprisoned and our freedom taken away. It is our rule of law which makes our country so great and not some chaotic, wild wild west, anarchy.

And before you all start overreacting, slamming or complaining about this post understand it is sincere and it is my expression of FREE SPEECH because I LOVE this country. Let us agree to disagree and our right to express our opinions and leave it at that.
 
I too am a Police Officer. One of the officers killed was my friend and last year I lost another friend in the line of duty do to some arsholes idea of senseless violence. I have been on Snowest for a a long time and I would like to say that this is one of the best threads Ive read. I dont want to ramble on, I just want to say thank you for starting this thread and keeping it going. And those who have called, Pm'd and E-mailed, thanks.

E
 
I too am a Police Officer. One of the officers killed was my friend and last year I lost another friend in the line of duty do to some arsholes idea of senseless violence. I have been on Snowest for a a long time and I would like to say that this is one of the best threads Ive read. I dont want to ramble on, I just want to say thank you for starting this thread and keeping it going. And those who have called, Pm'd and E-mailed, thanks.

E
Sorry that you have lost a few friends, and thanks for your service.
 
Just to add to the....why cops kill cop killers and not people that kill citizens issue. When it happens, the scum bag makes the choice on wether to die or not. In most cop killer cases they decide they want to go down fighting, they don't get on the ground and do what they are told. There mental make-up is different in some aspects than your a-hole that kills a non police officer. I truly believe this guy was trying to ambush the Seattle cop that ended up killing him. I know the stolen car was a POS but I think it was planned and thank god the SPD guy was ready for it. Unfortunatly the guy that shot the other SPD guy was only paralyzed, scum should have been shot more than 3 times or whatever it was. It's also a shame the terrorist from the Fort Hood murders is still alive. Hopefully they stay with swift Texas style justice and hang that A-hole!
 
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The thing that is not being addressed is the states will have to make decisions to release more and more bad guys because of liberal judges or the more urgent challenge, that being the expenses for prison. California is releasing thousands and as the economy continues to be tits up and the federal government shifts more expenses to the states (that is what they are doing with the proposed healthcare reform) more bad guys (or worse the criminal mentally ill) will walk the streets.

People don't understand how evil people can be.. until you deal with the true bad guys, like the one that killed the four officers in Lakewood.

Personally I am calling my two stupid federal senators and keep telling them STOP THE SPENDING... the other thing we did... both have carry permits...and do
 
I too am a Police Officer. One of the officers killed was my friend and last year I lost another friend in the line of duty do to some arsholes idea of senseless violence. I have been on Snowest for a a long time and I would like to say that this is one of the best threads Ive read. I dont want to ramble on, I just want to say thank you for starting this thread and keeping it going. And those who have called, Pm'd and E-mailed, thanks.

E

You are my favorite Troop!!! Thank you for talking me into getting LEM plates a few years back.
 
I told my wife when this started that he would be killed. They tried to kill the other one last month in Seattle.

I want to know why they kill or try to kill the people that kill or attack cops and not for the other scum bags that do it to regular citizens that aren't cops....why don't they put out the effort for any of the killers that make it away from the crime scenes of regular citizens? why would we as citizens be held accountable for killing someone that killed someone in our family?

I think he got what he deserved, but I also have a bitter taste about the "special" nature of the last 2 cop events. I don't know what it is...maybe a gang mentality that no one can do anything about.....
Was there really any doubt he was going to be shot dead, NOT! How come vigilant justice only works when cops are weilding it?

It is interesting the guy walk into the coffee shop and shot four cops but didn't shoot any civilians. I thought he was a crazed murder? Why did he discriminate? Obviously he was gunning for cops. Why? We will never know.

The violence and possible retaliation of being a cop come with the job. If you're wearing your uniform you should sit with your back to the wall facing the door.
 
Was there really any doubt he was going to be shot dead, NOT! How come vigilant justice only works when cops are weilding it?

It is interesting the guy walk into the coffee shop and shot four cops but didn't shoot any civilians. I thought he was a crazed murder? Why did he discriminate? Obviously he was gunning for cops. Why? We will never know.

The violence and possible retaliation of being a cop come with the job. If you're wearing your uniform you should sit with your back to the wall facing the door.

Everybody is certainly entitled to their opinion, and I mean no disrespect...mine is just another opinion, but maybe from a different perspective.

I'm a firefighter first and foremost. I'm also a tactical medic and a SWAT operator for an SRT team. I have the best job in the world...get to help people when their world is in chaos, and 99% of the time I get to be the "good guy". And the other 1% of the time? I get to go whoop *** with the elite. Damn good job.

But, I can tell you this. I have lost friends. I have lost co-workers, and family. I could NOT be a cop full time. I simply DO NOT HAVE THE PATIENCE that is required...I'd get fired the first week for beating the SHAT out of some douche-bag who just beat up his wife, raped some little girl, ....whatever. I'd want instant justice. I feel most of the time, cowardly punk A$$es like these guys need an old fashion a$$ whoopin they won't recover from. I couldn't do it. I respect my friends, and all those who do that job -- because you know what? For the most part, they're pretty damn good at it, and nobody else could or wants to put up with all the shat they have to deal with on a daily basis.

justice only taken on those that shoot cops? you know what a catch-22 that is for those guys?...sure they want to center punch that coward in the forehead with a lead injection -- who wouldn't?...I know I sure did...but they also have a job to do...and they also realize that EVERYBODY is going to be scrutinizing them, and assuming they're going to act out of pure emotion and shot this guy regardless of what he does...if anything, i think that makes them err on the side of NOT using that force unless it's really necessary...i can say that, because that's what the guys i know feel...that being said...I'm just thankful that seattle cop saw out of the corner of his eye that a$$, and clemens was stupid enough to get shot again...this time for good. and selfishly...there's justice for me, and it saves tons of money going through a trial for that clown. good riddance...i know i shouldn't feel that way, but it is for the time being.

And I WHOLE HEARTEDLY disagree with the premise that retaliation comes with being a cop, and you should just have your back to the wall at all times...that's not how they should operate. that's not how I want the cops who protect my family, friends, home or neighbors to have to act. i want them focused on doing THEIR JOB, not constantly waiting for the next cowardly psycho to run up and pop a round in the back of their head like a pu$$y...some people may not like cops...most don't until YOU NEED THEM...then they sure can't get there fast enough can they? Funny how that works.

Sgt. Renniger was actually one of the training officers I had when i went through SWAT basic training. the loss of that PD family, and the loss those families of those officers are dealing with is truly almost insurmountable. my heart breaks for all of them...we're covering providing police and fire protection for their districts -- so their own officers and firefighters can go pay respects to their fallen brethren.

May God grant peace and healing to those families and that community.

Just my $.02. :rose:
 
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