P
priest lake rmk
Well-known member
I have had to deal with a Scott Cheff type guy before in a not so tragic but same type of situation ( life/death) in the back country. Guys like them make me puke. Fuggin politics.
Bad Avy at Canyon Creek
- Thread starter dirtrider
- Start date
Scott is part of North Valley S&R. While he may not have been overall team leader, I'm sure he was just following protocol. There are so many different agencies involved with this, someone needs to try to keep things in some kind of order. Scott may come off as brash, but he's there to get a job done, and he tries to keep things focused that way. He's one you DO want out there looking for you.
I know that there were folks up there yesterday and last night that didn't even have the safety gear themselves. That's not an extra worry you want on your hands when doing something like this.
Don't take it personally.
Tomorrow searching will resume. Canyon Creek will be closed at 1st Bridge. You can go to Kimmerly Basin on this side. The other side will be closed at the Y that either goes to Big Mountain, or the Survival Cabin. You can access the rest of the areas via Big Creek if you wish to ride up there.
I know that there were folks up there yesterday and last night that didn't even have the safety gear themselves. That's not an extra worry you want on your hands when doing something like this.
Don't take it personally.
Tomorrow searching will resume. Canyon Creek will be closed at 1st Bridge. You can go to Kimmerly Basin on this side. The other side will be closed at the Y that either goes to Big Mountain, or the Survival Cabin. You can access the rest of the areas via Big Creek if you wish to ride up there.
Thank you CatWoman for standing up for my dad. he was just doing what he was told to do. if these people want to help so bad maybe they should get off there a$$ and join some of these agencies and help. other then thinkin they will go and try to be heros on there own!!!!!!!!! for less than the price of a 6 pack they to can join, get training, and be a help not a hindrance to those of of that know what were doing. As far as you other arm chair, parking lot rescurers unless you were there and know what really went on quit the F@#CKING bashing on the people that spent countless hour away from family and work to be on the sceen.I personal spent 10 plus hours there and retreving bodies. JUST REMEMBER THERE ARE ALWAY 2 SIDES TO A STORY!
Yha, and your's is quite rude.
KPAX news is covering the story at this moment and Scott is talking about it on TV.
There are a few reasons that S&R teams don't want help from people that are not involved with them or other teams, 1. we have no idea what kind of training you have, are you really helping or hindering? 2. you have no idea what the plan is, I was on a search a couple years back and we where looking for a body in an avalanche, the avalanche happened the day before, avy risk was extreme, we sent a couple teams up that night and did not find anything, the victim did not have a beacon, we called it for the night and decided to bomb the next morning, well the guys buddies decided they where going to hike up in the middle of night to look for him, we started bombing the next day..... it could have been ugly, but everyone was very lucky
so don't take it personally, I have been on both sides, if you really want to get involved join a S&R team.
so don't take it personally, I have been on both sides, if you really want to get involved join a S&R team.
Let me remind you Chicks. It was the stupid-azs arm chair parking lot rescuers that hindered their way in to pull out and save Roberts less than a year ago. Which I believe was a sucessful rescue with out professional S&R. Which in my book does makes them heros.
The problem with these agencies is the internal buracracy, which is why some people ultimatly leave them and other people are reluctant to join. Plus they tend to be a little late / slow.
My loved ones have been instructed to call all the stupid-azs, 6 pack, arm chair parking lot rescuers they can find before they call S&R if I don't show.
I do agree with one thing, their are always 2 sides to every story.
The problem with these agencies is the internal buracracy, which is why some people ultimatly leave them and other people are reluctant to join. Plus they tend to be a little late / slow.
My loved ones have been instructed to call all the stupid-azs, 6 pack, arm chair parking lot rescuers they can find before they call S&R if I don't show.
I do agree with one thing, their are always 2 sides to every story.
Last edited:
P
pedactor
Member
There was an avy in NW Mt. last year where the search and rescue wouldn't go in to look for the guy that was burried because it was dark and the conditions were not safe. So the guys friends all got together and went in anyway they ended up finding him 6-8 hours after the avy, under four feet on snow and with no beacon. He ended up making it. I am interesten in joining the S@R but haven't because I would have a hard time being told that I couldn't go in and do my job. I know there is a fine line on putting others at risk but I feel if you are going to sign up to work for S@R ,that you should be willing to risk your own life for others. I am not saying that the S@R dont take risks but I was really discuraged with there actions in that incedent. If the guys buddys would have listened to the S@R and not gone to look, their friend would be dead.
Always carry your avy gear!
Alway check your beacons and you friends beacons before you leave the parking lot!!
Always carry your avy gear!
Alway check your beacons and you friends beacons before you leave the parking lot!!
I don't know how other S&R teams work, but on ours we have an extreme or hasty team, it is a group of guys that will go in almost any condition, to check the conditions & look for survivors/victims, we do this before we send in everybody. every incident is different....
The guy that survived in MT should have went and bought lottery tickets the next day, the odds of surviving buried in an avalanche for that amount of time have got to be a billion to one. The odds of living drop something like 90% after 15 minutes.
If you want to make a difference join! there is alot more to it than just going out on callouts, we do 100's of hours of training, I know if I go out in avalanche conditions with my team I want to be confident that if the it gets bad I can count on them, I have trained with them and know what they are capable of. We spend alot of our own money and spend time away from our families to go and look for people who sometimes have no clue, I'm not saying that it is like that always, but most avalanches are triggered by people playing on hills when they shouldn't be, and not using their brain. A very sad example is the guy that was buried in Super Bowl in the Uintahs a few weeks ago, he did not have a beacon on him, his sons had theirs but he did not, WHY?!?
If you are going to go out and play in the snow, check the avy forecasts, dig pits and get some training, Our teams spent 3 hours this weekend in the classroom and 6 hours in the mountains digging pits and doing mock multiple burial searches, just as a refresher....
The guy that survived in MT should have went and bought lottery tickets the next day, the odds of surviving buried in an avalanche for that amount of time have got to be a billion to one. The odds of living drop something like 90% after 15 minutes.
If you want to make a difference join! there is alot more to it than just going out on callouts, we do 100's of hours of training, I know if I go out in avalanche conditions with my team I want to be confident that if the it gets bad I can count on them, I have trained with them and know what they are capable of. We spend alot of our own money and spend time away from our families to go and look for people who sometimes have no clue, I'm not saying that it is like that always, but most avalanches are triggered by people playing on hills when they shouldn't be, and not using their brain. A very sad example is the guy that was buried in Super Bowl in the Uintahs a few weeks ago, he did not have a beacon on him, his sons had theirs but he did not, WHY?!?
If you are going to go out and play in the snow, check the avy forecasts, dig pits and get some training, Our teams spent 3 hours this weekend in the classroom and 6 hours in the mountains digging pits and doing mock multiple burial searches, just as a refresher....
CHICKSDIGDOOS,
It goes to show you that until you are standing there with a dead body or put through a dramatic situation some people have nothing better to do but piss and moan!!! no matter what ya tell them. After being on one of these, they all start to seem the same one body after another no big deal
. For those who want to bash on Scott or Chris or any member of a search team until your put there in that situation stop and think what would you do!! Holding the lifeless body of your child,father,mother,wife,husband or best friend these are the things that we as rescue workers have to face daily.. to be safe on these rescues is key and most important I personally do not what to be the one pulled out of that hole!!! just my to cents..
It goes to show you that until you are standing there with a dead body or put through a dramatic situation some people have nothing better to do but piss and moan!!! no matter what ya tell them. After being on one of these, they all start to seem the same one body after another no big deal
. For those who want to bash on Scott or Chris or any member of a search team until your put there in that situation stop and think what would you do!! Holding the lifeless body of your child,father,mother,wife,husband or best friend these are the things that we as rescue workers have to face daily.. to be safe on these rescues is key and most important I personally do not what to be the one pulled out of that hole!!! just my to cents..For the record my hats off to any man that stands up and puts organization to caos, that is what most search situations end up being due to lack of info. Scott is that man I have seen it many times. Some searches are called from a warm vehicle or dept. Scot is the man that is out in the nasty night time snowing and blowing (why is it always that way) makeing things happen the best of ones ability. This thread started out as a heart felt info letter but turned into a bash on a man that is running off little info and orders that must be followed. For those who do not like to be sent home or want to help it has been said (join). For those who are ask to go out and look based off a call list from buddies acting only on an adrinalin rush, you may be the ones burried next .
I got back into town yesterday after being gone over the weekend for work and what a terrible situation to hear! Hat's off to all those helping out and thoughts and prayers are with the families!!
A
aadougie
Well-known member
Front page of the Kalispell paper today...
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2008/01/15/news/news01.txt
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2008/01/15/news/news01.txt
M
minturn
New member
I too feel the same way, if I or someone I knew was in a slide I'd want as many people out there trying to find us. It is usually organized choas. I've helped with rescueing hikers in Moab/Colorado while 4x4ing. I just try and do what I can.
In this situation, do they have a list of missing people? or Possibly missing? Trying to just figure out who/ how many people are missing would be so aggrivating.....
I'm praying everynight for everyone involved....
In this situation, do they have a list of missing people? or Possibly missing? Trying to just figure out who/ how many people are missing would be so aggrivating.....
I'm praying everynight for everyone involved....
This is from today's paper (the link to the story was posted above).
People heard "Avalanche" and "Canyon Creek/Fiberglass", and were freaking out and calling in if they thought a family member MIGHT be in the area. It only added to the uncertainty that was going on.
People heard "Avalanche" and "Canyon Creek/Fiberglass", and were freaking out and calling in if they thought a family member MIGHT be in the area. It only added to the uncertainty that was going on.
Wow, with all that equipment and training you must be really valuable! Yet you don't seem to mention all the hours you have volunteered with the local search and rescue organizations. Surely with all your expertise you could be an asset instead of using your free time to bash those who have been out there in the cold for the past three days trying to find these people. You make it sound like it was Scott's personal decision to have you leave, yet it is a fact that it was not his personal decision and he was asked to do so by an authority higher up than him. I am sure your willingness does not go unappreciated, however, by bashing the people who are volunteering their time out in the cold away from their families you just took away any appreciation that could have been had. You say that people leave SAR because of the beaurocracy. I think people leave becuase they are tired of hearing people who do not know all the facts bad mouth them and say how they could have done their job so much better, yet those same people don't put in the time to prove it. Besides, what makes the person in the parking lot have so much more knowledge and authority than Scott? Get over yourself. You do not know everything or everyone that is up there working hard. So instead of further bad mouthing and trying to make yourself feel better for having your ego bruised, how about you put in the hours with the people you are criticizing, or if you are just too good for that, maybe spend a little less money on your backpacks and donate. They are volunteers, non profit and they work hard at what they do.
M
MTdream
Well-known member
back on topic
ok, this thread has taken a stupid turn...thsi thread is about several dead people, out doing what we all enjoy (backcountry)...it is not about pissing and moaning...about SAR, or not or whatever
I would suggest getting it back to what matters...is there more help needed? is there anything us locals can do to help the families?
if someone knows answers to these please either PM me, or email me...
ok, this thread has taken a stupid turn...thsi thread is about several dead people, out doing what we all enjoy (backcountry)...it is not about pissing and moaning...about SAR, or not or whatever
I would suggest getting it back to what matters...is there more help needed? is there anything us locals can do to help the families?
if someone knows answers to these please either PM me, or email me...
The search has been called off until they have a conformation of missing people. Plan to re-interview the reporting party. and hope for better weather
Similar threads
