They have also stated many times that there is one main person that does the posting on the forums. Now do I get one?
Asking for riders' input about winter non-motorized areas (PART 6)
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modsledr
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modsledr
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They have also stated many times that there is one main person that does the posting on the forums. Now do I get one?
They said??? lmao...are you really that gullible?
I was going for small steps... If WMC didn't come on here, people would not be getting proactive about the Wilderness intrusion issue. Cause and effect. It would have been better (From the WMC standpoint) to just come out guns a blazing and caught us with our pants down. Would you not agree with that?
You are right, it might not, but is the other option just doing nothing? Who has stated that it will end everything anyways? The FS has stated many times that Wilderness incursions WILL lead to snowmobilers loosing riding areas. They have said this for a while now, yet they keep on happening...
Agreed, but if we don't do it, who is going to? People keep stating that we need more enforcement, yet there is none to be found. Who then is responsible? Aren't WE responsible? Shouldn't it be? If we say, "It isn't my problem" will that matter when our riding areas are taken away?
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modsledr
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apology accepted
I understand that the FS has the ability to make this not legal, the ability to do this very easily. They have the ability to limit the use of motorized vehicles from specific areas. To say that you have a right to use FS land in a manor that you see fit is an erroneous statement. You are ALLOWED to snowmobile on FS land. There is no guarantee that will always be so. A lot of people seem to think that is the case. I would think one look at the SAWS website would show otherwise.
I guess the biggest thing here is that I don't see NOT enforcing the wilderness as an acceptable alternative. Looking at the future of snowmobiling in the area, the trees at Gold Creek and Stampede are getting bigger every year. The amount of riding in these areas is shrinking, and it takes longer and longer for the trees to get covered. Some areas will stay open, but I see many of the areas round there becoming unusable. This will push a lot of people over to the east more.
It has been stated many times that Wilderness incursions will cause snowmobilers to loose areas to ride in. These statements come from the FS people that help manage the area. If no enforcement happens, and these wilderness intrusions continue, it won't be long before some very large groups come together and kick us out. Whether or not we think we have a right to be there.
That is the way I see it. How about you modsldr? What are you thoughts?
It has been stated many times that Wilderness incursions will cause snowmobilers to loose areas to ride in. These statements come from the FS people that help manage the area. If no enforcement happens, and these wilderness intrusions continue, it won't be long before some very large groups come together and kick us out. Whether or not we think we have a right to be there.
That is the way I see it. How about you modsldr? What are you thoughts?
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modsledr
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Again, stop puting words in my mouth..I never said I could use FS land as I see fit. Yes, they have the ability to limit use. All I said is that at the current time, snowmobiling is legal on FS land, and as long as I dont break the law, it is my CURRENT right to do so.
They (FS) are looking for public comment on how we want to use the land, and hopefully everyone on SW (and other sites) voices their opinion on desired use.
If the FS decides that certain areas need to be non-motorized, then so be it...in the meantime, I will continue to fight for open use of public lands.
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modsledr
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If the FS is willing to work with us and offer us some form of enforcement options, then I would be first in line to volunteer.
The answer I've heard from them FS (and also voiced by others) is that there are no resources for enforcement.
If we are reaching out, and the answer is "there is nothing we can do"...then what? Vigilante posse?
Do we have to break the law to enforce the law?? (go into wilderness to photo/document the law breakers??).
And before Ruffy puts words in my mouth (again)...I'm NOT saying we shouldn't work with the FS and put up signs on the wilderness boundary...this is a start...BUT, it wont stop the willfull lawbreakers.
The answer I've heard from them FS (and also voiced by others) is that there are no resources for enforcement.
If we are reaching out, and the answer is "there is nothing we can do"...then what? Vigilante posse?
Do we have to break the law to enforce the law?? (go into wilderness to photo/document the law breakers??).
And before Ruffy puts words in my mouth (again)...I'm NOT saying we shouldn't work with the FS and put up signs on the wilderness boundary...this is a start...BUT, it wont stop the willfull lawbreakers.
Not to in any way shape or form do I would I ever defend the dirtbags that ride in the wilderness but is it really our responsibility to police the wilderness incursions? I mean is it okay for me to police my neighbors when I call the cops on the jokers for drag racing in my hood and the only thing the King County sheriff tells me is they must catch them in the act? So it just continues to happen and happen....Same exact thing here in legalities, with exception for the ramifications to my sport
I'm simply asking does the USFS bear any of the responsibility in policing these incursions? I'm not calling out the USFS just simply asking?
How can we get these areas policed better? How does making more land wilderness due to incursions help stop incursions? This reminds me of bad parenting 101.
Having more land go wilderness when the USFS is unable to police what they already have?? How could the FS recommend something like that? How could they be expected to police more land with the same amount of officers and expect better results?
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modsledr
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sorry DD...I'll quit racing up and down your street!!
This is exactly my point...give us a real solution to the problem so that we can assist in the enforcement. Closing off more land will only cause MORE of a problem, IMO.
That last part is the key.
I would imagine the cost is pretty high to have some patrolers on snowmobiles in one location for the "chance" that they could bust someone for trespass.
The WMC idea was to limit the motorized areas to such a large degree (end of one of the roads) that it would make enforcement much much simplier and easier. (Smaller area to patrol, easily defined boundaries. Method to the madness as it were..
Who are you asking?
So it is your right until it isn't. What was the point of this line of statements again? I thought you were trying to prove something with this..
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modsledr
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really???
the point is that right now, it is legal to ride in the areas in question. As long as that is the case, I will continue to fight for EVERYONES right to use the land (in a lawful manner). There will ALWAYS be groups like WMC...giving in to them wont solve the problem.
I'm not trying to prove anything...other than to stop you from puting words in my mouth while trying to create something out of nothing.
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modsledr
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Hmmmm...WMC is now online again @ 9:30pm...whadda ya know??!!
it must be the hidden agenda..
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Why bother.. You got your tinfoil hat on so tight, it doesn't matter anymore..
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modsledr
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