Asking for riders' input about winter non-motorized areas (PART 6)

[ruffryder]

WMC..username: who are you. You speak on behalf of an organization yet you dont leave your name. Are you actually authorized to speak in behalf of that organization. It looks like Rondondee to me using a different username. Can someone in admin check the Ip or Mac address of WMC and compare to Rondondee? This sounds all to familure.

The WMC has stated they are different people, 3 different people to be exact. Wasn't Randonee just asking for snowmobilers to stay out of the wilderness? I didn't think there was anything more to it then that?

Teanaway Crest / Apline Lakes Wilderness thread

Blewett Thread

Who is WMC..is that the "Wasatch Mountain Club" by any chance?

Nope, Wenatchee Mountain Coalition..

Now to WMC: take note..when you impose or try to get restrictions against snowmobilers you are also limiting many or us US Military Veterans that have disabilities that limit us from being able to just hike and ski. It is a form of discrimination to the Disabled Veteran and against any other person with a disability. Do you think you will be able to do what you are doing for ever? Do you not think you might get old someday and be less capacitated than before? By limiting access you may be screwing yourself for the years to come. You are trying to restrict an individual from his limited ability to enjoy what part of his/her life they are able to still enjoy for what ever trumped up reason..shame on you!

Now that is a very good point indeed.

I am tired of being PC with the mentality of WMC and Rondondee and his hidden agendas.

It isn't about being PC, it is about being respectful. Are you able to disagree with him without being derogatory about it?

 

[rmk2112]

OK, here's what we know.
I don't know if Randonnee and WMC are the same person, but they have been using a computer from the same location.

Time Frame:

When WMC first started posting here I checked his IP address and cross referenced it with Randonnee. The IP's were different. (I thought the same thing deepdiver did from the beginning.)

As of his last log on: Randonnee - Last Activity: 06-02-2010 06:21 AM
Randonnee was using the same IP address that WMC was using when he 1st started posting on here.

As of his last log on: WMC - Last Activity: 06-21-2010 05:37 AM
WMC is using a different IP address, its a IP address from a completely different part of the state. This is the 3rd different IP address used by WMC. 2 were from the same area, now this one from a different area.

When Randonnee posted here a few months ago, it was from the same IP address that WMC is using now.

My guess is that they are not the same person, but that they are working together.

 

[modsledr]

My guess is that shining the light on them will keep them away.

Funny how that works.

 

[ruffryder]

My guess is that shining the light on them will keep them away.

Keep them away from talking and engaging snowmobilers and continue with what they do best, removing riding areas from snowmobile use.

Good thing this is down here in the sink hole, we don't want people in washington knowing about this or reading anything that might elicit an emotion.

 

[rmk2112]

Keep them away from talking and engaging snowmobilers and continue with what they do best, removing riding areas from snowmobile use.

Good thing this is down here in the sink hole, we don't want people in washington knowing about this or reading anything that might elicit an emotion.

I understand what you're saying ruffryder, but c'mon, this thread has reached the 400 post mark. Its become nothing more than a "he said, she said" pissing match.

Legitimate organizations are just that, Legitimate & Transparent.... Proposals are posted online at a website or in a newsletter sent out to its members. Maps of proposed actions and discussion areas are done the same way. Letters of support are available for all to see. Not just posted on internet forums to "see post # 34 on TAY to view our agenda".
C'mon, lets get real. treat this for what it is. A selfish try at land grab by a few individuals. This is a very important topic, but WMC appears to be a paid talking head, sent online to create conflict and bravado with false/misleading statements and innuendo, along with big words and long sentences that say nothing.
I agree we need to be a lot more diligent in our efforts to police ourselves and to be more involved in USFS matters that affect our riding areas, but spending day after day posting in response to this fool is a waste of time that could be spent in ways that could actually help our cause.
We all need to be proactive in efforts to preserve ALL of the areas that the people of Washington State use, not reactive to fools like this.

 

[ruffryder]

I understand what you're saying ruffryder, but c'mon, this thread has reached the 400 post mark. Its become nothing more than a "he said, she said" pissing match.

Isn't that because it is important? Isn't that because people are actually discussing things here? He said she said? Maybe you need to go back and read through most of the threads, all 6 of them. There is some good information in there, between the retarded replies from snowmobilers about "just share".

Legitimate organizations are just that, Legitimate & Transparent.... Proposals are posted online at a website or in a newsletter sent out to its members. Maps of proposed actions and discussion areas are done the same way. Letters of support are available for all to see. Not just posted on internet forums to "see post # 34 on TAY to view our agenda".

I think when this gets to the "Legitimate" stage, then it will be too late for snowmobilers.

C'mon, lets get real. treat this for what it is. A selfish try at land grab by a few individuals. This is a very important topic, but WMC appears to be a paid talking head, sent online to create conflict and bravado with false/misleading statements and innuendo, along with big words and long sentences that say nothing.

A few individuals that have support from large organizations that has the ability to snowball right over us. It doesn't matter if the arguments are weak, that won't stop thousands of skiers from agreeing with them.

I agree we need to be a lot more diligent in our efforts to police ourselves and to be more involved in USFS matters that affect our riding areas, but spending day after day posting in response to this fool is a waste of time that could be spent in ways that could actually help our cause.

Who are you to judge what is a waste and what isn't with OUR time. For the most part, the conversation was respectful on both sides and was surprisingly well done for a non-motorized advocate coming over here and trying to engage snowmobilers.

We all need to be proactive in efforts to preserve ALL of the areas that the people of Washington State use, not reactive to fools like this.

What you don't understand is that without WMC, we wouldn't be organizing to try and increase the effort to stop wilderness incursions in these areas. Without WMC we wouldn't be discussion this and learning about this for the last month.

This discussion will continue to happen, if not here where snowmobilers can have a larger benefit, then elsewhere. It seems the decision has been made.

 

[diamonddave]

Isn't that because it is important? Isn't that because people are actually discussing things here? He said she said? Maybe you need to go back and read through most of the threads, all 6 of them. There is some good information in there, between the retarded replies from snowmobilers about "just share".
I think when this gets to the "Legitimate" stage, then it will be too late for snowmobilers.
A few individuals that have support from large organizations that has the ability to snowball right over us. It doesn't matter if the arguments are weak, that won't stop thousands of skiers from agreeing with them.
Who are you to judge what is a waste and what isn't with OUR time. For the most part, the conversation was respectful on both sides and was surprisingly well done for a non-motorized advocate coming over here and trying to engage snowmobilers.
What you don't understand is that without WMC, we wouldn't be organizing to try and increase the effort to stop wilderness incursions in these areas. Without WMC we wouldn't be discussion this and learning about this for the last month.

This discussion will continue to happen, if not here where snowmobilers can have a larger benefit, then elsewhere. It seems the decision has been made.

Hmmm okay...

 

[modsledr]

Isn't that because it is important? Isn't that because people are actually discussing things here? He said she said? Maybe you need to go back and read through most of the threads, all 6 of them. There is some good information in there, between the retarded replies from snowmobilers about "just share".
I think when this gets to the "Legitimate" stage, then it will be too late for snowmobilers.
A few individuals that have support from large organizations that has the ability to snowball right over us. It doesn't matter if the arguments are weak, that won't stop thousands of skiers from agreeing with them.
Who are you to judge what is a waste and what isn't with OUR time. For the most part, the conversation was respectful on both sides and was surprisingly well done for a non-motorized advocate coming over here and trying to engage snowmobilers.
What you don't understand is that without WMC, we wouldn't be organizing to try and increase the effort to stop wilderness incursions in these areas. Without WMC we wouldn't be discussion this and learning about this for the last month.

This discussion will continue to happen, if not here where snowmobilers can have a larger benefit, then elsewhere. It seems the decision has been made.

In a private PM early in the thread, long before I posted, I told another member that this was a waste of time and that WMC had an agenda and ulterior motive that had NOTHING to do with discussion, collaboration, cooperation, etc...

Their refusal to discuss any option that does not include the privatization of their special area should clue you in. Their unwillingness for transparency is very telling. Their sudden absence now that some ID's have been made is even more telling.

They are here with a purpose. They don't care about our opinions, or our desires. They only wish to close down more land so they can have it to themselves.

And I agree that if some form of Wilderness enforcement comes out of this, that is great. But we dont need WMC for that.

 

[ruffryder]

Their refusal to discuss any option that does not include the privatization of their special area should clue you in. Their unwillingness for transparency is very telling. Their sudden absence now that some ID's have been made is even more telling.

He stated he was climbing Mt. Adams this week... Tin foil hat time?

 

[modsledr]

He stated he was climbing Mt. Adams this week... Tin foil hat time?

Come on Ruffy...pay attention...WMC is more than one person.

 

[ruffryder]

Come on Ruffy...pay attention...WMC is more than one person.

How many people have been posting as WMC? Do you know? Or are you guessing that the three people take turns posting on the interweb?

Pay attention? This coming from the guy that thinks it is his right to ride his snowmobile on FS lands? We be in trouble...

 

[diamonddave]

You seem to be overly adjitated Ruffy??

 

[ruffryder]

Their refusal to discuss any option that does not include the privatization of their special area should clue you in. Their unwillingness for transparency is very telling.

Yah, look how well that treated Randonee? Transparency? Do we deserve it? Can we be trusted with it? Or is it our right?...

They are here with a purpose. They don't care about our opinions, or our desires. They only wish to close down more land so they can have it to themselves.

They have stated the purpose many times, 3 issues. Specific land for non motorized, buffers for wilderness and to ease enforcing wilderness. Stated over and over ad nausium. They have stated many times they are trying to get what they want and we should try and get what we want, in discussions with the FS. Why is this all of a sudden a surprise?

And I agree that if some form of Wilderness enforcement comes out of this, that is great. But we dont need WMC for that.

IF? You kidding me with an IF? I don't think you get the big issue that is going on here..

We don't need WMC for that? You know what cause and effect is don't you? Why are a group of snowmobilers making plans to put signs up showing the wilderness locations for the Teaneway / Blewett areas? What caused them to do it? What effect has WMC had in being here? Take another look, my friend.

 

[ruffryder]

You seem to be overly adjitated Ruffy??

More than normal agitation?

 

[diamonddave]

More than normal agitation?

I think I said overly?

 

[ruffryder]

I think I said overly?

Yep, you said overly agitated. It just seemed funny you had to put the overly in there, as if I come off agitated all the time (normal) and I stepped it up to overly...

Man, can I talk about BS or what!!

 

[modsledr]

How many people have been posting as WMC? Do you know? Or are you guessing that the three people take turns posting on the interweb?

Pay attention? This coming from the guy that thinks it is his right to ride his snowmobile on FS lands? We be in trouble...

RMK2112 already verified that at least 2 different users posted from the same IP address that WMC is using. I never said anything about 3 people...I just said WMC was more than 1 person.

As for our right to ride on public land...as long as it is legal, then yes, it is my right to do so...and yours...and WMC's (all of them)...and members of the WWE...etc...

As soon as you are willing to stop fighting for open use of public lands (which it appears you are close to doing)...then you might as well join the Sierra Club.

 

[ruffryder]

RMK2112 already verified that at least 2 different users posted from the same IP address that WMC is using. I never said anything about 3 people...I just said WMC was more than 1 person.

WMC has stated many times that they are 3 people.

As for our right to ride on public land...as long as it is legal, then yes, it is my right to do so...and yours...and WMC's (all of them)...and members of the WWE...etc...

I think you need to take a closer look at rights.. You can't make rights illegal can you? Your statement implies that you can..

As soon as you are willing to stop fighting for open use of public lands (which it appears you are close to doing)...then you might as well join the Sierra Club.

Congress and the FS have already stated that open use on public lands is not a real concept. You can not do whatever you want to on FS lands. Why don't you understand this concept? This thought that you can do whatever you want on the FS lands is a misnomer and seems to be used as justification for a lot of snowmobilers attitudes on this issue. IT IS WRONG!! If you don't like it, tough man, but that is the way the land is currently managed.

 

[modsledr]

Yah, look how well that treated Randonee? Transparency? Do we deserve it? Can we be trusted with it? Or is it our right?...

They have stated the purpose many times, 3 issues. Specific land for non motorized, buffers for wilderness and to ease enforcing wilderness. Stated over and over ad nausium. They have stated many times they are trying to get what they want and we should try and get what we want, in discussions with the FS. Why is this all of a sudden a surprise?

IF? You kidding me with an IF? I don't think you get the big issue that is going on here..

We don't need WMC for that? You know what cause and effect is don't you? Why are a group of snowmobilers making plans to put signs up showing the wilderness locations for the Teaneway / Blewett areas? What caused them to do it? What effect has WMC had in being here? Take another look, my friend.

I hate to admit it...but you are starting to sound like them...when anyone questions you, your statements become more and more inflamatory and condescending.

Dont assume that you know what I get and dont get...or ask quesitons like I'm a little kid...or try to get under my skin. I wont get emotional about this with you, WMC, or any others.

IF (yes, I said if again) the wilderness enforcement happens, then great...but get off your high horse for a second and realize that posting signs will not stop those who willfully encroach, it will just keep the honest people honest.

We need enforcement and consequences. Only then will we be able to say we are doing something meaningful.

 

[modsledr]

....WMC has stated many times that they are 3 people.......

I accept your apology