Asking for riders' input about winter non-motorized areas (PART 2)

[jacmmaxwell]

Did you guys catch that, this is there local honey hole and that's why they are fighting to kick us out.

Managed lands are managed for the public, in the publics best intrest. In fact here is the mission statment of the USFS:

Mission
The mission of the USDA Forest Service is to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the Nation’s forests and grasslands to meet the needs of present and future generations.
Motto: Caring for the Land and Serving People
The phrase, "CARING FOR THE LAND AND SERVING PEOPLE," captures the Forest Service mission. As set forth in law, the mission is to achieve quality land management under the sustainable multiple-use management concept to meet the diverse needs of people: It includes




Hmm, diversity? No were in there does it say "narrow mind" and "exlusive" such as your proposed plan.

 

[yammadog]

Are these not public lands? And should be open to the public... all of the public.

All we get is no, nothing anywhere is to be given up, please correct this if wrong.

What seems to be the discussion here is no compromise, no real consideration of other significant types and numbers of other Forest users.

.

Hypocrasy at it's best.

You bring a "proposal" to the group you want to exclude and then offer no answers to direct questions that may lead to a "compromise"?!

You fail to acknowledge over 40%+ of the forest already designated as wilderness and non-motorized as usable and meets your stated goal, yet also state that you can be to this boundary in 1/2 hour.

You, sir/ma'am/committee, are not thinking of compromise, only finding ways to create conflict where none exists as the avid winter/summer user Mr. Newtrout states.

This is about selfish interest of a few users of the public land.

I suggest we disengage conversation with WMC until he/she/they decide to answer direct questions and show compromise on his/her/their part.

The WMC committee has millions of acres of wilderness and non-motorized public land to use without motors, they should use it.

WMC, if you have thought out your proposal then it should be no problem identifying the areas you envision for off road snowmobiling in similar terrain as you propose closed. Where would this be located?

 

[ruffryder]

You, sir/ma'am/committee, are not thinking of compromise, only finding ways to create conflict where none exists as the avid winter/summer user Mr. Newtrout states.

Yah, I think that is the biggest issue here. I have been sent pm's over at TAY from skiers that use the area, stating that there is no user conflict, and that skiers have a very easy ability get to areas where snowmobilers can't get to and can get away from snowmobilers very quickly.

All the "discussion" and justification is based on a false pretense that there is a user conflict here. Many skiers state that there isn't one, and many snowmobilers state that their isn't one either. Many posters on here have stated that they go out of their way to offer space / assistance to non-motorized users.

There is a conflict here... and it is between people that are able to have a good time with other users, and those that can't. I think there are skiers and snowmobilers that can't, but based on comments from many people, they are the minority.

 

[hurleyboarder21]

telling isn't it!!

Quote from WMC

Sorry to tell you, but this is coming to your ski stash soon.

went back and reread what WMC really is about. just go search his posts

it is all about a selfish just for me group that is just concerned about "them"

 

[hurleyboarder21]

I STAND BY MY STATEMENT 200%

Default this is ALL this landgrab is about
Quote:
this landgrab is so transparently about a few who want "their stash" for themselves that they forsake any reasonable consideration to others in the same genre .
This can only be described as a selfish elitist minded screw everyone else landgrab.

THAT is all it is.

Go to tay and read all of wmc posts. and the ones on here also.

it is all about wmc pow stash private skiing club.

i feel sorry for the forest service to have to be burdened with the actions of such a misguided selfish effort to lock out the general public for the benefit of a "special" few. total bs

like the forest service has any extra resources as it is.

regards
hurly

 

[justadude]

There are 2 simple strategies at play.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. WMC is only looking for points of leverage in their quest to take access away from the snowmobile users.

And,
Divide and conquer!

It's my opinion that there is no legitimate reason to have a discussion with WMC because he already made it clear that it will not matter what we have to say and that any energy spent on this matter should be focused on an aggresive counter strategy to appose this obvious attempt at imposing WMC's will on another’s user groups access rights.

So what is the point of the discussion then? To better formulate your argument based on our statements? To create a better justification for you proposal? So you aren't going to budge at all, so what is the point in engaging us? It seems to me like you are trying to get a head start on any argument against your proposal, to be better prepared when the time comes to submit it.

I guess this statement makes sense then..

If you are here trying to understand the view points of those here, why do you state that they won't have any effect on your decision making process? How is it respecting the likely opposition when it seems that the concerns of the opposition are falling on deaf ears?

So is the benefit of this to WMC the fact that they can now say they have engaged snowmobilers and that they were unwilling to compromise except to say no?

 

[snowmobiler]

"buzzing".LMAO.
oh FS will you please remove the bumble bees and other wildlife that i dont like.i was stung real bad when i was a rugrat.also please remove the planes that fly over.they bother me too.

my proposal is sled.ski.or hoof it out to the wilderness boundry like
"REAL" backcountry skiers do.

thank you

 

[yammadog]

Seems WMC forgot to post on SW...write in...

Skiers! At this time is an important opportunity to provide input to USFS in regard to which areas of the Forest are best or are commonly used for skitouring. There is an ongoing USFS planning process which asked for input here about winter recreation, specifically which areas of the Forest are best for skitouring. This information is sought by the Forest Planning team r6_ewzplanrevision@fs.fed.us. Also, now is a good time in the process for skiers to send comments about where they skitour and what should be preserved for skitouring to the various Districts as well of the OWNF:



For the Stevens Pass, Lake Wenatchee, and Blewett Pass/ Wenatchee Mountains areas

Wenatchee River Ranger District

Vaughan Marable, District Ranger
600 Sherbourne
Leavenworth, WA 98826
(509) 548-2550 or 548-2551
Fax: (509) 548-5817

For the Teanaway and south slope of the Wenatchee Mountains, and the Snoqualmie Pass east area-
Cle Elum Ranger District

Judy Hallisey, District Ranger
803 W. 2nd Street
Cle Elum, WA 98922
(509) 852-1100
Fax: (509) 674-3800

Other areas:

Entiat Ranger District

Janet Flanagan, District Ranger
2108 Entiat Way
P.O. Box 476
Entiat, WA 98822
(509) 784-1511 (Voice/TTY)
Fax: (509) 784-1150

Methow Valley Ranger District

Michael Liu, District Ranger
24 West Chewuch Road
Winthrop, WA 98862
509-996-4003 Voice
509-996-0000 TTY
509-996-2206 Fax


Chelan Ranger District

Robert Sheehan, District Ranger
428 W. Woodin Avenue
Chelan, WA 98816-9724
(509) 682-4900 (Voice/TTY)
Fax: (509) 682-9004

Naches Ranger District

Irene Davidson, District Ranger
10237 Highway 12
Naches, WA 98937
(509) 653-1401 (Voice/TTY)
Fax: (509) 653-2638


For more information about the Colville and Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forests- Forest Plan Revision please visit the project website at: www.fs.fed.us/r6/wenatchee/forest-plan

Similar to some discussion here, WSSA (Washington State Snowmobile Association) opposes even the process of USFS consideration of winter non-motorized recreation. Please review the WSSA website and the Letter to USFS-

http://www.wssa.us/ and the WSSA letter http://documents.clubexpress.com/do...0NMI2nPaDfg8GOAVewEjmjhIkHzDYcA45U+yUFGvPknA=

Skiers need to speak up about where on the Forest is best suited to skitouring. Without management for non-motorized winter recreation on the Forest, more areas will become snowmobile-use areas as riders discover new areas and find access routes. And why not, it is fun for the snowmobile riders and currently there is no rule against snowmobile riders expanding use on the general Forest.


Aside from the above, our project below:

About the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition

Purpose: Advocacy for non-motorized winter recreation on Forest Lands.
Goal: Designation of USFS Non-Motorized areas for winter recreation. Specifically, we seek non-motorized status for the pristine unroaded crest of the Wenatchee Mountains.
Initial action -- the Thousand Skiers Project: One thousand skiers/snowshoers/Forest users will write (email) the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Supervisor and request designation of new non-motorized areas on the Wenatchee Mountains. The ‘significant’ area we are targeting is the unroaded Wenatchee Mountains ridge crest from Van Epps Pass to Three Brothers (mountain). This encompasses Ingalls Peak, Fortune Peak, Iron Peak, peaks surrounding Bean Creek, Earl Peak, Navaho Peak, Three Brothers and the Wenatchee Mountains Crest from Rd 9716 to the west of Diamond Head across Tronsen Head, Mt. Lillian including down to the Old Ellensburg trail to Mission Peak and on to the Mission Ridge Road including Lake Clara, Mission Peak, and surrounding areas. This area would offer many short day-tours, long day tours, overnight self-powered ski tours, and snowmobile road-assist tours. We hope to generate a thousand comments by August 15, 2010.

Contact information: Mail, email, or call
Rebecca Heath, Forest Supervisor
Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Headquarters
215 Melody Lane
Wenatchee, WA 98801
(509) 664-9200
Email: blheath@fs.fed.us
Also send a copy of your message to the Forest Plan Revision Team: r6_ewzplanrevision@fs.fed.us
Carbon Copy Us: wenatcheemountainscoalition@hotmail.com. We need to track our support and to capture additional thoughts and ideas of non-motorized recreationalists. Your privacy is paramount, we will not share your contact information or reveal your identity.
Help us Succeed. Please forward this message to your skiing/snowshoeing friends. Ask for their involvement.


Thank you.

 

[rmk2112]

................

Aside from the above, our project below:

About the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition

Purpose: Advocacy for non-motorized winter recreation on Forest Lands.
Goal: Designation of USFS Non-Motorized areas for winter recreation. Specifically, we seek non-motorized status for the pristine unroaded crest of the Wenatchee Mountains.
Initial action -- the Thousand Skiers Project: One thousand skiers/snowshoers/Forest users will write (email) the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Supervisor and request designation of new non-motorized areas on the Wenatchee Mountains. The ‘significant’ area we are targeting is the unroaded Wenatchee Mountains ridge crest from Van Epps Pass to Three Brothers (mountain). This encompasses Ingalls Peak, Fortune Peak, Iron Peak, peaks surrounding Bean Creek, Earl Peak, Navaho Peak, Three Brothers and the Wenatchee Mountains Crest from Rd 9716 to the west of Diamond Head across Tronsen Head, Mt. Lillian including down to the Old Ellensburg trail to Mission Peak and on to the Mission Ridge Road including Lake Clara, Mission Peak, and surrounding areas. This area would offer many short day-tours, long day tours, overnight self-powered ski tours, and snowmobile road-assist tours. We hope to generate a thousand comments by August 15, 2010.

Contact information: Mail, email, or call
Rebecca Heath, Forest Supervisor
Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Headquarters
215 Melody Lane
Wenatchee, WA 98801
(509) 664-9200
Email: blheath@fs.fed.us
Also send a copy of your message to the Forest Plan Revision Team: r6_ewzplanrevision@fs.fed.us
Carbon Copy Us: wenatcheemountainscoalition@hotmail.com. We need to track our support and to capture additional thoughts and ideas of non-motorized recreationalists. Your privacy is paramount, we will not share your contact information or reveal your identity.
Help us Succeed. Please forward this message to your skiing/snowshoeing friends. Ask for their involvement.


Thank you.

I have noticed a disturbing fact in some of WMC's posts. When he/they/we/us/whatever talks about WMC, The contact info is stated as a USFS employee. He/they/we/us/whatever is being tricky with a play on words and is trying to make people believe they are affiliated with this USFS person. This is a deception that I am sure is not a coincidence. He/they/we/us/whatever is NOT affiliated with the USFS and I wonder if the USFS employee is aware of how she is being represented in WMC's propaganda.

This and other blatant distortion of facts is what WMC is all about. We have all tried to have a respectful, factual sharing of ideas in WMC's post here. He/they/we/us/whatever will not back up what He/they/we/us/whatever says or will not answer the simplest of question that were asked here in a "sharing of ideas" that He/they/we/us/whatever requested in the 1st post.

 

[WMC]

I have noticed a disturbing fact in some of WMC's posts. When he/they/we/us/whatever talks about WMC, The contact info is stated as a USFS employee. He/they/we/us/whatever is being tricky with a play on words and is trying to make people believe they are affiliated with this USFS person. This is a deception that I am sure is not a coincidence. He/they/we/us/whatever is NOT affiliated with the USFS and I wonder if the USFS employee is aware of how she is being represented in WMC's propaganda.

This and other blatant distortion of facts is what WMC is all about. We have all tried to have a respectful, factual sharing of ideas in WMC's post here. He/they/we/us/whatever will not back up what He/they/we/us/whatever says or will not answer the simplest of question that were asked here in a "sharing of ideas" that He/they/we/us/whatever requested in the 1st post.

What specifically is the question?

 

[yammadog]

What specifically is the question?

hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha........ok , breathe....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......maybe I should take up uphill skiing so I can laugh longer.......

Give me a minute to surf...I'm sure I wrote one 6-7 time on TAY and then a couple of times here.....I need a paper bag...I'm starting to get dizzy..I might black out.....

 

[yammadog]

Found one.....

Please identify how many slopes in the proposed area you can cover in a day, how long would it take to track out with how many skiers/boarders and then which areas you see sledders riding in your vision of your proposed change.

 

[yammadog]

Another from TAY

WMC, where do you forsee legal off road snowmobiling with similar terrain to what you are proposing closed? Do you acknowledge that you have available to you although some may be less desirable all areas of the forest totalling 100%?

 

[yammadog]

A CC from TAY from a fellow skier..Micah...

This I think is the $1M question which you have posed here several times and to which you have received no answer.

 

[mountainhorse]

So that ALL can read on this important topic, here in this fourm... I am closing posting in this particular thread (PART 2) so that ALL can read and comment in the continued Part-3 of this topic.