Are 4-Strokes Really Closing the Gap?
- Thread starter christopher
- Start date
We all know I am biased.....fair statement. 
All I can say is we had a great spring program and we are grateful the Western troops showed up for demo days. Put their confidence in the product and are now waiting for their 2015 MTX's to be built.
Ride what you Pride........im cool with that
Cheers
RS
All I can say is we had a great spring program and we are grateful the Western troops showed up for demo days. Put their confidence in the product and are now waiting for their 2015 MTX's to be built.
Ride what you Pride........im cool with that
Cheers
RS
D
Deep Powder Guy
Banned
We all know I am biased.....fair statement.
All I can say is we had a great spring program and we are grateful the Western troops showed up for demo days. Put their confidence in the product and are now waiting for their 2015 MTX's to be built.
Ride what you Pride........im cool with that
Cheers
RS
Without question you have been an impressive rider to watch as well as an ambassador of Yamaha's 4S sled which I'm sure has lead to plenty of Yamaha sales.
DPG
Unfotunetly I have never riden any of the AC proclimb chasis, So i can not coment on those. I also have very little seat time on the Viper so my coments are limited to what I know from the short time I rode it.
Like I said earlier in the tread It is not going to handle like the Pro ( a sled I have riden ) but it is fun ( with the Turbo ) to ride and is capable in the tree`s. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. Fred
Like I said earlier in the tread It is not going to handle like the Pro ( a sled I have riden ) but it is fun ( with the Turbo ) to ride and is capable in the tree`s. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. Fred
One thing that I haven't heard mentioned in this thread is the fact that you can expect 10K plus miles out of the boosted Viper without an engine rebuild.
I haven't heard of very many ~200 hp two strokes doing that.
The longevity is what sold me on the idea of a four stroke sled. Mine is over a decade old now and all I have done to the engine is change the oil once and clean the carbs a few times.
I would really like a 2015 Viper MTX with a turbo kit, but my RX still runs great and I can go most places that my friends on Freerides, Pro Climbs and Pros go, so it's kind of hard to justify dropping $14K when what I have now works pretty well. It doesn't sidehill as well and is not as good in the trees, but it still gets me where I want to go.
For the guy that has to have the latest, greatest offering every season or two, this isn't a selling point.
I haven't heard of very many ~200 hp two strokes doing that.
The longevity is what sold me on the idea of a four stroke sled. Mine is over a decade old now and all I have done to the engine is change the oil once and clean the carbs a few times.
I would really like a 2015 Viper MTX with a turbo kit, but my RX still runs great and I can go most places that my friends on Freerides, Pro Climbs and Pros go, so it's kind of hard to justify dropping $14K when what I have now works pretty well. It doesn't sidehill as well and is not as good in the trees, but it still gets me where I want to go.
For the guy that has to have the latest, greatest offering every season or two, this isn't a selling point.
D
Deep Powder Guy
Banned
That is a very good point. Unfortunately in the the west buying a new mountain sled every year has become an addiction that many western riders suffer from.
DPG
S
stingray719
Well-known member
I think you are mistaken. None of these guys would come on hear and give opions on how the Viper handles with out spending time on one. That would be silly.
Which raises a really good question.
WHY?
What is it that drives so many guys to buy a new sled EVERY YEAR?
It just amazes me how many 1 season old sleds are for sale every spring around here.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
I think a couple things....one is that sleds really HAVE come a very long ways in the last 10 years. Every couple years you have been seeing a great new offering from one of the manufacturers. Cars and trucks have been pretty dang good for awhile now, but (stock) sleds have only begun to be really good more recently.
Also, if you want to stay with current technology, you basically have 2 options. Buy a new sled every 1-3 years and take the depreciation hits. Or keep it 5 years+, spend more money on mods and upkeep to keep it current, and take one (larger) depreciation hit and lose all you mod money. Of course, some people mod the heck out of a brand new sled and sell it after 1 year....and I can only assume those people have money to burn.
S
stingray719
Well-known member
Please tell those of us with lots of M8 Proclimb seat time how it handles better than one of those....the chassis somehow gets better with a heavier, less powerful engine?
NOW WE ARE TALKING!
I ride a 2014 M8 153 and built the 2014 XTX into a 153 narrowed front mountain sled for the girlfriend. She complains I ride it more than she does...lol.
I moved the front skid shock lower mount forward to account for the additional 22 pounds of weight on the front of the Viper. That is now the only diff chassis wise between the M8 and the Viper. They DO ride different but most of that is 4 stroke vs 2 stroke. The Viper launches hard from stop while M8 takes off and builds power fast, this causes me to use power and engine brake to ride it alot more like a dirt bike than a snowmobile. Riding slow around trees the 4 stroke is ALOT easier to handle using torque steer. Anything under 40 mph give to the Viper, anything above that give to the M8. There is something just plain FUN about a high torque 4 stroke. Big Block older Corvettes are not that fast but the torque makes them much more fun than a faster small block.
Deep snow don't pop the throttle off or you make the Viper dive. Thats the only down side I see.
Guy with a 2012 Proclimb parked next to us and commented on heavy Yamaha. He was stunned when I asked him to pick up the front and he couldn't tell any more weight than his Proclimb. The Yamaha engine wasn't what made the Nytro a beast, it was the Nytro chassis being god awful heavy and the gas tank and engine set up high.
I tried to trade in my 2014 M8 on a new Viper with Turbo but dealer was stupid on trade in or I would not have an M8 now. Don't get me wrong I really like the M8 but the Viper with boost is amazing fun.
DISCLAIMER - We don't do much high speed riding. Most of our riding is deep powder and boondocking, might be why we don't care if sled has power to do 100 mph but do care if it has torque enough to handle powder.
Pic posted just in case you believe those heavy rumors, it was taken at a weigh in posted online.
Jaynelson;3644373if you want to stay with current technology said:
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Coming from a Pro RMK, I can already feel the extra weight of an M8 over that sled. The newer Pro's are lighter again than my 2011. Particularly noticeable when getting unstuck. Adding another 22lbs to the front end would only add to this. If weight makes no difference, then why try to mitigate weight on sleds at all? Would be much easier and less costly to make them heavier. I guess those with lighter sleds will say it's noticeable, and those with heavier sleds will say it isn't - no end in sight on that argument.
Now, I can see your case with having more low end pop being conducive to boondocking for sure....but so far, I have not seen a stock 4 stroke having any overall advantage over a stock 2-stroke besides reliability. I have also not seen a turbo 4-stroke make any waves in our group for our riding style - Viper included. That riding style is all mountain, as deep of snow as possible, and pretty aggressive at times.
Now, that all doesn't mean there isn't enjoyment to be had riding XYZ sled - just maybe that it's not yet the BEST tool for the job. I also understand that some people just want to try something different
D
Deep Powder Guy
Banned
Idaho Farmers have big bucks and like to spend money on recreation ????....Back in the day I would buy 5 snow-checks each year from either Action, Bott or Intermountain Marine ( best pricing ) sell 4 at a profit of no less than $500.00 each sled and my new sled would cost me zero each year to step up.
Also keep in mind that the 700's were evolving rapidly than the 800's came available and man-o-man have they evolved and the rest is history....Back to those Idaho Farmers man-0-man do they have big bucks and love new toys.
Contractors in the region were also living large as well.
DPG
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True enough.
We do have our fair share of farmers around here that enjoy their winter recreation while their fields lay fallow all winter
We do have our fair share of farmers around here that enjoy their winter recreation while their fields lay fallow all winter
D
Deep Powder Guy
Banned
I know for years Action in IF would sell more Polaris sleds than any other dealer in the US. I don't know if they still hold that title today ??? I'm sure there in the top 5....If you go into that store any day of the year there writing up deals left and right.....For years I would go in there each spring buy 5 Polaris snow checks never to own or ride a single one than head down the road a few miles to Bott or Intermountain Marine and snow check 1 Skidoo.
Than come August & September I would advertise my Polaris snow checks for sale on Snowest and they would all be gone in a matter of a few days.
Those were the good old days,
DPG
Than come August & September I would advertise my Polaris snow checks for sale on Snowest and they would all be gone in a matter of a few days.
Those were the good old days,
DPG
B
BigFish BC
Well-known member
wow 3 pages of 2s guys telling everybody why 4s suck
,please been riding them since 05.never have i ever not gone were everybody else goes,if you cant ride them thats great not eveybody can.i have never not had fun on my sled stuck or not.last but not least who cares if a non turboed 4s wont keep up with a 2s,they are different motors,4s work better with a turbo than a 2s
.would love too know how many hours all you so called experts have on a viper,you can assume all you want but thats all it is.it just amazes me how some guys will make $hit up just to make one brand look better than another,all brands are making some of the best sleds we have ever had,pick the one you like & ride it & stop worrying about what i ride.
,please been riding them since 05.never have i ever not gone were everybody else goes,if you cant ride them thats great not eveybody can.i have never not had fun on my sled stuck or not.last but not least who cares if a non turboed 4s wont keep up with a 2s,they are different motors,4s work better with a turbo than a 2s.would love too know how many hours all you so called experts have on a viper,you can assume all you want but thats all it is.it just amazes me how some guys will make $hit up just to make one brand look better than another,all brands are making some of the best sleds we have ever had,pick the one you like & ride it & stop worrying about what i ride.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
wow 3 pages of 2s guys telling everybody why 4s suck
Wouldn't be much of a "discussion forum" is someone posted a question and everyone agreed...would it?
D
Deep Powder Guy
Banned
Were just having a friendly discussion I don't think anyone cares what the other rides....I have owned 4 4strokes Yams myself and dozens of 2Strokes over the years and prefer the light weight nimble feel of a 2 stroke.
If someday the 4 strokes can produce a lightweight nimble sled I will consider switching back but for now the 2 strokes right out of the box run very very well.
Like the title of this threads reads "Are 4-Stroke Really Closing The Gap"...I really don't think so when you consider how 2 Stroke ( mountain sleds) have evolved.
I'm also a little shocked at Yamaha who in house has outstanding technology and engineers...Why turn to Cat for help ??? And Why turn to MPI for help ??...Years ago Skidoo & Polaris had a suspension marriage so I guess anything is possible.
DPG
If someday the 4 strokes can produce a lightweight nimble sled I will consider switching back but for now the 2 strokes right out of the box run very very well.
Like the title of this threads reads "Are 4-Stroke Really Closing The Gap"...I really don't think so when you consider how 2 Stroke ( mountain sleds) have evolved.
I'm also a little shocked at Yamaha who in house has outstanding technology and engineers...Why turn to Cat for help ??? And Why turn to MPI for help ??...Years ago Skidoo & Polaris had a suspension marriage so I guess anything is possible.
DPG
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I dont think you have to have light weight to get nimble. I remember back when I picked up my 09 Summit in the fall of 08. I thought I had it all with the lightest weight mountain sled and best 800 at the time ( in my opinion ). First ride I flew down the wooped out trail and thought this is pretty nice. Then came to the first real hill and shot right up with no problem. Next was a hill covered in trees and deep snow. Played in there for about half an hour and thought what the heck is wrong with this thing. Did not side hill well and was hard to manuver. Couple rides later I got to ride a 09 Dragon. Had almost 50 lbs compared to my sled and the engine didnt feel like it had near the same torque. But it handled much better in the tech ridding. Fred
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