Arctic Monorail vs Ski-doo T-Motion

[madmax]

As i read through all these comments on the alpha vs T-motion vs rigid rear suspension, i have to wonder that maybe the Alpha will really shine. With the traditional rear skid or T-motion, when you side hill you only have the traction of the part of the track that is dug into the hillside. That may be 20, 40 or 80% of the track surface depending on how fresh or hard the snow is. With the alpha as the whole track pivots on the slide rail you get almost the entire surface of the track in contact with the snow for what could be vastly superior traction. personal i hated my 17' doo 850 for this very reason, thats why i sold it, i couldn't trust it in super technical terrain. My cats and my axys on the other hand are very predictable in the same terrain and do not wash out. I just hope my theory on the alpha 1 hold true and it is better than what I have now.

 

[0neoldfart]

It's great to have choices...

The announcement of the Alpha One skid has been out for two days, and everyone wants to ride it, at the same time saying it won't work. Hard to ride what isn't built yet, and in my neck of the woods, there are no dealer demos on anything. You wanna ride it? Buy it. But you have choices. Buy whatever you like. If you're skeptical, buy something else, whether it be Cat, Doo, Poo, Yamaha, etc. If you don't like it, sell it or trade it in - no one is holding a gun to your head.
I personally don't feel that Cat would have released this suspension if it didn't work, especially after 6 years of R&D. If the early prototypes were sketchy, the whole thing would have been scrapped. It's good to see the manufacturers continue to push the envelope and come up with new ideas and designs...
I don't generally sidehill 60 degree extremely steep technical terrain as my riding is in BC, and I hate trashing my sleds because I ran out of talent. and at 48 years old, I'm no Burandt, and I have no illusions that I will ever be.
I do believe that throttle control will be critical on this sled though...

 

[nuttyn01]

Alpha One

I was chatting with some reputable people in the industry( non-biased and not tied to any one OEM)that have spent significant time on the alpha one this year as well as the other 2019 sleds. They indicated that If they had to build a sled in 2019 it would be an alpha one. It was the most fun sled they have rode to date. Additionally, holds a side hill and does not want to wash out and go up hill like the Doo. I own an 850 and that can be eliminated with t-motion lock outs but that's another story.

I will have one in my stable this year and I have never owned an Arctic Cat!

 

[JJ_0909]

blah blah

...this is a forum.

 

[RMK-King]

Just going to leave this here.

 

[JJ_0909]

Just going to leave this here.

I almost did the same thing.

 

[snowmobiler]

i dont see polaris on there.

 

[CO 2.0]

That's a dumb comparison. Everyone who is a real rider knows that how tight of a donut you can makes is dependent on snow depth, consistency, and density. I've made tighter donuts on my 18 MC than what they have on that pic.

 

[sno*jet]

well that pic solves it... guess its not as tippy as a doo.

 

[triple650]

That's a dumb comparison. Everyone who is a real rider knows that how tight of a donut you can makes is dependent on snow depth, consistency, and density. I've made tighter donuts on my 18 MC than what they have on that pic.

True it is a dumb comparison, so why did cat choose to use it in the footage to show how well this skid works? To me, judging by that picture it looks like the new alpha skid just wants to wash out, can't even hold a tight corner on flat land. Obviously I agree with what you said, just can't make a decision on this skid before we here some unbiased unpaid to promote rider first hand experience lol.

 

[GTfly4]

Parallel Lugs

I keep reading about potential wash-out with this and the T-motion. What would happen if Camso came out with a track that had a couple rows of parallel-to-line-of-travel lugs that would help set a "new" edge on the side hill? (Basically rotating some lugs 90 degrees)
Has this been done before? Anyone have any results to share? In my mind, seems like it would be worth a try.

 

[turboless terry]

My buddy has s camso snow bike. Same concept. I told him I thought it would wash out and he said he thought the same thing but said it doesn't. He also said the same as most of the reviews. More nimble, more fun, faster response, less effort and better traction. Might be better than people think.his kid might get to ride one tomorrow. If he does then I will know tomorrow.
As far as the 08 to 11 m sled, they had a chassis that would do things the others wouldn't but it wasn't until 10 that they had a motor. I had a turboed 09 that was awesome but stock not so much. The 07 and 08 sucked.

 

[turboless terry]

As i read through all these comments on the alpha vs T-motion vs rigid rear suspension, i have to wonder that maybe the Alpha will really shine. With the traditional rear skid or T-motion, when you side hill you only have the traction of the part of the track that is dug into the hillside. That may be 20, 40 or 80% of the track surface depending on how fresh or hard the snow is. With the alpha as the whole track pivots on the slide rail you get almost the entire surface of the track in contact with the snow for what could be vastly superior traction. personal i hated my 17' doo 850 for this very reason, thats why i sold it, i couldn't trust it in super technical terrain. My cats and my axys on the other hand are very predictable in the same terrain and do not wash out. I just hope my theory on the alpha 1 hold true and it is better than what I have now.

I actually think this will work better than people think. T motion is the big issue with doo. The flex edge is probably another issue in the right snow because you don't really have more track in the snow and you've lost that edge like an axys or set of skis. This is different because it is not flex edge and you have more traction propelling you acrossed a slope. Even an axys will lose its back end. If you haven't then you haven't played on that steep of stuff as you think you do. When you don't have as good of traction propelling you acrossed a slope it will start washing down. Path of easiest resistance. If it has the extra traction they claim it might just overcome more than people think with the added benefits of being more agile and more responsive. That is a huge win.

 

[d1100t]

I actually think this will work better than people think. T motion is the big issue with doo. The flex edge is probably another issue in the right snow because you don't really have more track in the snow and you've lost that edge like an axys or set of skis. This is different because it is not flex edge and you have more traction propelling you acrossed a slope. Even an axys will lose its back end. If you haven't then you haven't played on that steep of stuff as you think you do. When you don't have as good of traction propelling you acrossed a slope it will start washing down. Path of easiest resistance. If it has the extra traction they claim it might just overcome more than people think with the added benefits of being more agile and more responsive. That is a huge win.

I agree and think this is very possible.

Cat is making a big mistake however not having Alpha's available to demo and show buyers/snow checkers just how it works!

 

[turboless terry]

Yes they are. It was just sitting there. Nobody was riding it and my buddy's kid didn't see if he could ride it. I could strangle him.

 

[Trashy]

Yes they are. It was just sitting there. Nobody was riding it and my buddy's kid didn't see if he could ride it. I could strangle him.

So why didn’t your buddy ride it then?

 

[turboless terry]

It was his kid. He was helping Yamaha and riding a sidewinder. My bet is he could have rode it if he would have just asked. No idea why he didn't. My buddy was mad too.

 

[Trashy]

That’s an unacceptable act of parenting. Lol

 

[fredw]

For myself I had to remove the tmotion, it was just to out of control for the steep/deep, most guys I ride with have done the same.. Once removed and a few other changes the skid feels comfortable in stock power

So I'm happy to see this alpha skid still needs some body movement to maneuver.. And skis look fairly planted on the few vids I seen, this once again needed attention on doo skid

This new monorail sure looks like the future and I would guess will be fine tuned even better with some time..

If it had came out with the larger track and a bit more hp, I would be doing the swap to cat this year.. from doo

 

[jakey-boy]

Maybe this makes no sense but as a long time skier, when I was traversing on a sidehill, my skis were angled in to the hill like a sled skid that is solid as in a Polaris Axys (no t-motion or flex track). If I rotated my ankles so the ski bases were angled doan the hill, I would slide sideways down the hill. I think that biting into the hill is necessary to hold an edge. Just saying.

Great comparison. Especially since your skis were rotating through the snow cutting a trench and sawing their own ledge to ride on at any given time, Oh wait.... nope not even remotely the same.

This issues with the T motion relate to first it being too fat and second having multiple points of pivot in both the track and suspension working against each other. This setup is going to accomplish what the T motion was poorly designed to without nearly the downside. On rock hard snow it may perform slightly worse than the same sled with regular skid. How often do you ride that snow? I know it gets real hard to get anyone to ride at all around April 1st so not many people are riding the later snow...

I also find it interesting that the ski doo guys that have removed the t motion say it rides significantly better yet they still have the flex edge track. The cat setup IS NOT A T MOTION. If anything it is comparable to a flex edge without the excessive width...