J
What are you getting for mph with the 20/48 @ low elev???
Arctic Cat Proclimb Clutching 101 (Belt issues)
- Thread starter RACINSTATION
- Start date
What are you getting for mph with the 20/48 @ low elev???
G
On the Trail or pulling in the snow..... i have seen 90MPH on an icy road with about 2" of snow on it just cuz i wanted to see what my sled would do and see if it would detonate the belt like last year... i was amazed when i saw 90.... but typically on a railbed or something im seeing like 80 to be a top speed but i dont do that often....in climbs im pulling anywhere from 45-50mph Trackspeed. really loving my sled this year....
NOW just need the snow to cooperate
NOW just need the snow to cooperate
Gearing is a big deal on the ProClimb. I think the 20t is a must and 19/50 works really good. Belt temps suffer greatly with tall gearing on this sled.
Eric
Correct me if I am wrong but with the lower gearing of the 19/50 your clutches should work more efficently having said that am I thinking correctly that the clutches have the potential to shift out farther with more of the load being taken up by the gearing...
Also would I need to add more weight to keep my tach in check
Correct me if I am wrong but with the lower gearing of the 19/50 your clutches should work more efficently having said that am I thinking correctly that the clutches have the potential to shift out farther with more of the load being taken up by the gearing...
Also would I need to add more weight to keep my tach in check
F
Lower gearing allows for further shift out. The 19/50 will only give you about 76 miles per hour top speed at full shift. If you run it full out on hardpack, a road, or lake with that low gearing and let it get to full shift out for more than a few seconds, the odds of a blown belt are very high unless you are running a long belt. Lower gearing pulls easier than higher gears resulting in less load on the clutching, giving more rapid upshift. I rarely need to add weight when gearing down and have at times taken away a bit of weight when gearing down. Gearing down within reason will usually reduce heat in the clutches.
A
Correct me if I am wrong here.
1. The secondary should NEVER open enough to allow the belt to drop down into the secondary far enough to hit the straight cut on the sheeves and definiatly not to the point of hitting the helix. (take out your spring, leave all the shims and spacers in, drop a new belt into the secondary with it all the way open it if will drop past the taper, you have a problem.)
2. Do the same thing on the primary, if you remove the spring and close up the primary the belt should ride out of the primary about 1/8" max. If it goes more then you have a problem, or if it won't go that far you also have a problem.
As long as your deflection is correct, your motor mounts are solid you should be able to run the sled pinned, for a bit, without the belt hitting the helix or jumping out of the primary. You will be in TOP freeking gear at this point, thats why lake racers like those steep helix so they can hold it to the bar, stay closer to 1-1 ratio and let the helix do the work. We have our mountain sleds geared to BACKSHIFT so we run a shallow helix, and then on the trail with minimal load we shift out all the way and BAM their goes the belt.
To have a clutching combination that works best for both will NOT happen. You are a lake racer or a mounting rider, you can't do both with the same clutch setup.
And IMO it all comes down to the helix. You need to get your RPM's set in the primary. And from the little I understand on the BC kits on the 1100 a 330 finish rate spring will not do it (you will still over rev with 93 grams with a 330 finish rate spring). You need something in the 300 range to get your RPMs in the 8100-8300 range.
If it was mine I would put in a 130/300 primary spring and weight it up so I reach my peak rpms. then I would start with a shallow helix angle like a 38 straight, then I would keep adding angle I find my RPM's dropping off on a climb, that would be the top end of the helix, (I bet it will finish out around a 40) then I would put a small multi angle to it just for a bit of fun factor, so I would run a 40-46 helix, and I would use a stock secondary spring.
Again I don't really know crap about the 1100 and the new sleds, but for the most part clutching is clutching.
And just one last time, I would set the primary up first, then get the secondary dialed in.
I agree with Eric that alignment, belt deflection, are issues, but these aren't the cure all issues.
And sorry but I don't think a tied secondary is going to fix it. You must have the correct angles and spring tension to get it to work also. Will it be better in the end. Most likely. But until it is setup for YOUR riding style you will be in the same spot as everyone else. Frustrated!
Thunder
1. The secondary should NEVER open enough to allow the belt to drop down into the secondary far enough to hit the straight cut on the sheeves and definiatly not to the point of hitting the helix. (take out your spring, leave all the shims and spacers in, drop a new belt into the secondary with it all the way open it if will drop past the taper, you have a problem.)
2. Do the same thing on the primary, if you remove the spring and close up the primary the belt should ride out of the primary about 1/8" max. If it goes more then you have a problem, or if it won't go that far you also have a problem.
As long as your deflection is correct, your motor mounts are solid you should be able to run the sled pinned, for a bit, without the belt hitting the helix or jumping out of the primary. You will be in TOP freeking gear at this point, thats why lake racers like those steep helix so they can hold it to the bar, stay closer to 1-1 ratio and let the helix do the work. We have our mountain sleds geared to BACKSHIFT so we run a shallow helix, and then on the trail with minimal load we shift out all the way and BAM their goes the belt.
To have a clutching combination that works best for both will NOT happen. You are a lake racer or a mounting rider, you can't do both with the same clutch setup.
And IMO it all comes down to the helix. You need to get your RPM's set in the primary. And from the little I understand on the BC kits on the 1100 a 330 finish rate spring will not do it (you will still over rev with 93 grams with a 330 finish rate spring). You need something in the 300 range to get your RPMs in the 8100-8300 range.
If it was mine I would put in a 130/300 primary spring and weight it up so I reach my peak rpms. then I would start with a shallow helix angle like a 38 straight, then I would keep adding angle I find my RPM's dropping off on a climb, that would be the top end of the helix, (I bet it will finish out around a 40) then I would put a small multi angle to it just for a bit of fun factor, so I would run a 40-46 helix, and I would use a stock secondary spring.
Again I don't really know crap about the 1100 and the new sleds, but for the most part clutching is clutching.
And just one last time, I would set the primary up first, then get the secondary dialed in.
I agree with Eric that alignment, belt deflection, are issues, but these aren't the cure all issues.
And sorry but I don't think a tied secondary is going to fix it. You must have the correct angles and spring tension to get it to work also. Will it be better in the end. Most likely. But until it is setup for YOUR riding style you will be in the same spot as everyone else. Frustrated!
Thunder
C
MR Thunder your making sense to me, but I have a question maybe you can help me with. I'm a flatlander runing a 2012 XF800 high country 141" 2.25" track. I'm stumped on Helix's on what to try. Right now I have the stock straight 36* helix in with stock springs in both clutches and 80 gram cat weights pulling 7900 rpm. I'm thinking of ordering the MDS weights, but not sure what helix to go with. I do about 60% of my riding on farm land in about 2' powder snow holding that throttle open for awhile, but also do trail riding where I like that hard pull or race a bit and try kick some butt. I have 1000 miles on without blowing any belt, so i'm not a belt blower which means everything should be good with the clutches. Back to helixes, you say something like a 40/46 but other guys are telling me go with a 46/42 or maybe a straight 44* helix. What would you try? I know you said you can't be set up for both racing or powder riding on the same clutching, but our snow conditions are not mountain style with hard pulling or hill climbing or anything, just flat out kind of like lake racing.
A
cwl you sound a bit light on RPM's yet but if you are happy with 7900 don't mess with the primary. (I don't care what anyone says. RPM's equal track speed)(When your shifted out in top gear the ONLY way your gain track speed is by gaining rpm) Granted their is a point where you start to drop of the HP curve and it is a tough ballance.
But I wouldn't touch your primary. that 36* helix is a great backshifing helix and would be good in the steep and deep. But for what you are doing I would run something like a 42-52. The 52 will pull your arms off when you nail it and if your not under a huge load you should get the 42 to backshift ok.
I will bet you will be impressed with the dead stop to top end pull. When you back out of the throttle at 60mph and want to get back into it. If it labors at all and pulls the RPM's down, your helix is to steep. Or if you don't reach your peak RPM from a dead stop your helix is again to steep. The trick is to hold RPM throughout the range, the steeper the helix the more track speed you'll have. I would leave the stock secondary spring in their myself.
Again I don't have s 2012 or new style clutch setup, just the old school 1m's and M's. But the concepts are the same.
On your primary you swing pretty good weight. I would maybe pull just a little and get the R's to 8100 or so.
Thunder
But I wouldn't touch your primary. that 36* helix is a great backshifing helix and would be good in the steep and deep. But for what you are doing I would run something like a 42-52. The 52 will pull your arms off when you nail it and if your not under a huge load you should get the 42 to backshift ok.
I will bet you will be impressed with the dead stop to top end pull. When you back out of the throttle at 60mph and want to get back into it. If it labors at all and pulls the RPM's down, your helix is to steep. Or if you don't reach your peak RPM from a dead stop your helix is again to steep. The trick is to hold RPM throughout the range, the steeper the helix the more track speed you'll have. I would leave the stock secondary spring in their myself.
Again I don't have s 2012 or new style clutch setup, just the old school 1m's and M's. But the concepts are the same.
On your primary you swing pretty good weight. I would maybe pull just a little and get the R's to 8100 or so.
Thunder
C
Thunder
Sounds good I think i'm gonna take them 80 gram weights out and grind them down a bit to 79 grams. So why do you go with a lower number start on the helix and then finish higher (42/52) and you see lots of guys going the other way like 46/42 or 52/44. Is your way of helix better, i'm just confused here a bit on this.
Sounds good I think i'm gonna take them 80 gram weights out and grind them down a bit to 79 grams. So why do you go with a lower number start on the helix and then finish higher (42/52) and you see lots of guys going the other way like 46/42 or 52/44. Is your way of helix better, i'm just confused here a bit on this.
A
Thunder
Sounds good I think i'm gonna take them 80 gram weights out and grind them down a bit to 79 grams. So why do you go with a lower number start on the helix and then finish higher (42/52) and you see lots of guys going the other way like 46/42 or 52/44. Is your way of helix better, i'm just confused here a bit on this.
No you have it right. I have always been in the habit of listing the smaller number first. So your right. It would be like you said a 46/40.
Sorry about the confusion.
Thunder
Thunder
Sounds good I think i'm gonna take them 80 gram weights out and grind them down a bit to 79 grams. So why do you go with a lower number start on the helix and then finish higher (42/52) and you see lots of guys going the other way like 46/42 or 52/44. Is your way of helix better, i'm just confused here a bit on this.
get some 67-80 gram adjustables then you never have to remove weights again. a little more expensive but you can tune rpms a lot more precise.
a 46/40 helix would be a good helix for you. i wouldnt go higher than a 40 finish. 44/40 progressive also would be good. strong accel with still acceptable backshift. weight will have to be cut back to 74-75 range then.
C
Hey Keeger123
So all you did was the MDS weights & spring. Did you notice any difference with just putting in the MDS weights with sled performance? Just wondering if its worth changing out the stock cat weights.
So all you did was the MDS weights & spring. Did you notice any difference with just putting in the MDS weights with sled performance? Just wondering if its worth changing out the stock cat weights.
B
put them both in at 0 miles, so personally i can't compare..
but ask anyone who ran OEM then MDS weights, there's lots on here, search "mds", they will all tell you how much harder it pulls. and they wer only like $300, and they are completely adjustable, no more buying $120 fixed OEM weights and hoping thats the size i need
The MDS give a quicker upshift and better backshift. Better grab on the belt, and lower temps on the Proclimbs.
C
Buckwheat
I finally recieved my MDS weights, installed them last night. Just wondering what your engagement rpm is with them & top mph speed. I have same set up as you, everything stalk 36* helix 110/290 primary spring and put the MDS weights in & my engagement RPM is 4500 now, way to high, & i went from top end speed 90mph to 75mph. Not happy with this just wondering what your does.
I finally recieved my MDS weights, installed them last night. Just wondering what your engagement rpm is with them & top mph speed. I have same set up as you, everything stalk 36* helix 110/290 primary spring and put the MDS weights in & my engagement RPM is 4500 now, way to high, & i went from top end speed 90mph to 75mph. Not happy with this just wondering what your does.
A
I had to get a softer initial spring with the mds weights also. Dont remember off hand which one steve recommended but i remember it engaging too high (4500) when i installed the weights.
-Aksnopro
-Aksnopro
The MDS like an engagement rate of around 100 lbs for the primary spring.
MDS spring?
Eric, what spring do you like best with MDS weights on 800 PC?
Eric, what spring do you like best with MDS weights on 800 PC?
I like the Dalton Aqua/Black.
How do you set up the deflection properly? How high should the belt sit in secondary?
