Another Building Question

[sd900climber]

Hello again everyone. I'm back and have a couple more questions. For those of you that remember, I was asking about modular/stick-built a while back. Well, I am currently in the process of getting bids on stick-built and have a couple questions that I'm hope a few of you contractors can help me with.

Just to give you a rough idea of the scope of the project. It will be a two-level, main floor with an unfinished basement, and two car garage. Roughly 1182 sq. feet. per floor, so just under 2400 sq. ft total. Pretty "rectangular" other than a deck, offset garage, and covered entry. Very basic design and layout, straighforward hip roof.

I have two prelimary bids and two full bids coming in. I got my first bid back today and it was basically broken down into three categories (this one was just a preliminary bid). Main level, basement (unfinished), and garage. He said he figured the main level at $100 per sq. ft., which I actually thought was pretty reasonable b/c most contractors are around $125 psf.

He then had the basement portion broken out and he said he figured that at $50 psf. Now, I'm not a contractor by any means but I'm hoping someone can help me with this. Considering I am doing a completely unfinished basement other than the weight bearing walls being put in and the concrete foundation and floor, what am I being charged $50 a square foot for?

I mean, I know concrete is expensive but I was estimating somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25k for the basement. I'm guessing couple days to do the excavation work of the basement. So that's another 2 to 3 grand. I guess I just don't see where the extra 30-35k is with the basement? Can someone explain this to me?

The garage was bid at about 13k, which I thought was good. Total estimate was $190,000. My only problem was the basement was about twice what I was thinking.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[sky7051]

Not a contractor but have done quite a bit of concrete, framing, wiring (low voltage), and finish work, but the reasoning probably relates to the amount of work that goes in to completing a basement, along with all the wiring/plumbing will have to be placed overhead in the basement making things more time consuming (time=money). I'm also looking into building/purchasing where Im at and the $125 is a low figure for here, so $190k for a 2400sqft home is pretty good price. If you're at all handy and don't mind some work see if the contractors will cut some more off the price by letting you do some work yourself, flooring/phone,security,tv, internet wiring) anything you think you can handle (and the wife will let you get away with ) will save you money in the end. In fact two of us got together and helped my little bro and his wife save $20k when they had their home built.

 

[skidoorulz]

My son and I are going to build a small house for him. 1010 sq. ft. main with a full basement and a 24 X 28 attached garage. We will be in it for about $115,000 with the price of the 1 acre lot figured into that amount. We are subbing out the HVAC, concrete and possibly (hopefully) the plumbing.( I hate plumbing)

 

[X-it]

Well you could always get a framer instead of a contractor, $20,000 labor for framing... another option is to go to your local carpenter union hall and get a person who is familiar with houses instead of commercial and industrial. I framed a house out of the hall it was 120hrs total time to get the roof on, the carpenter should know how long the job will take and be within 10hrs or so. If he doesn't don't get him. The faster the framer the better the work...idiots don't know what they are doing and take longer.

 

[Mafesto]

My son and I are going to build a small house for him. 1010 sq. ft. main with a full basement and a 24 X 28 attached garage. We will be in it for about $115,000 with the price of the 1 acre lot figured into that amount. We are subbing out the HVAC, concrete and possibly (hopefully) the plumbing.( I hate plumbing)

Re-think that garage size.
He will regret that 24' decision.

 

[Blu Du]

from my experience you can never never put a price on a house and build it for that price. you always go over budget.

 

[Good to Go]

Ok, I'll bite:

Excavation: material type? what's the cycle time for the tipping? solo or T&T?? How deep is the finished cut, and amount of haul off?

Concrete: 8" single curtain wall on basic footing? or???? What's the finished height (TOW from TOS)??

Need a couple of details to figure it out, but the price doesn't shock me yet.

 

[sd900climber]

Ok, I'll bite:

Excavation: material type? what's the cycle time for the tipping? solo or T&T?? How deep is the finished cut, and amount of haul off?

Concrete: 8" single curtain wall on basic footing? or???? What's the finished height (TOW from TOS)??

Need a couple of details to figure it out, but the price doesn't shock me yet.

Well, it looked like the others were on their own topic and I think this response was to me.

I'm not sure what you mean by some of the terms you used, as I said, not a contractor. It will be a basic concrete poured foundation. There will need to be about a 5' hole dug and what is dug out will be used as fill around the house. One side (Short side) will be a walkout basement, so that takes out one wall as far as concrete goes. We will need to do "tabs" to hold back some of the front fill to make it look as level as possible in the front. The walls will be 8' high. I'm not sure of the required specs as far as footers go.

 

[sd900climber]

Also, I was planning to do some of the work myself. In particular tiling the bathrooms and showers, along with some trim work, painting, basic stuff. I can be pretty handy as long as I have some direction. But I certainly don't know what to do all on my own. I think there is an art to sheetrocking so I dont want to take on that task. I want that to be right because if it's not, you get whats coming to you.

I guess I was just shocked at the basement cost. I would think it would be the cost of the concrete and the time it takes to set up forms to pour the concrete, the excavation work, the load berring wall, the walk out wall, and maybe studding in the downstairs bathroom. I was thinking 30k tops as your not putting up walls, sheetrock, carpeting, electrical, trim work, painting, all that.

But, as I said this is my first bid that I got back, so who knows.

One thing that this particular contractor did say is that he will sign a contract to not go over budget, as some contractors will bid low to get the job and then tac on 20% at the end and say sorry, prices went up, yada yada.

 

[Good to Go]

Well, it looked like the others were on their own topic and I think this response was to me.

I'm not sure what you mean by some of the terms you used, as I said, not a contractor. It will be a basic concrete poured foundation. There will need to be about a 5' hole dug and what is dug out will be used as fill around the house. One side (Short side) will be a walkout basement, so that takes out one wall as far as concrete goes. We will need to do "tabs" to hold back some of the front fill to make it look as level as possible in the front. The walls will be 8' high. I'm not sure of the required specs as far as footers go.

No hauling, short dig. Sweet. Don't know what prices are where you are (we use $135 per yard on concrete...before mark-up, here) Kind of a bench mark. sooooooo.... Around here you'd probably pay anywhere from 25 to 40k... including drainage, rough grading, etc. It's pretty basic, but in the end you only get what you pay for. Supply and demand comes into play too, big time.

On edit: and I'm only talking about excavation and concrete costs and labor. When done, you'd have walls standing with bolts sticking out. And a drainage pipe heading off to never never land. And a floor...

What's mud go for where you're at??

 

[X-it]

35yds of concrete, pumper costs, taxes, excavation, damp proofing, radon gas, bolts, ties, form rental, doors, framing insulating...some areas require drywall, drain tile and rock in some soils, windows? Stairs and entrances. Of coarse you could always go with the Styrofoam bricks and pour them and add rebar costs.

 

[Rmk900rider]

First Of All where are You located. I am a contractor in montana and if you are in Montana that seems to be a little much. I built a personal house a year ago for myself and it was 1750 square feet with hardwood floors, tile, hickory cabinets, top of the line appliances and i subbed everything out and i did it for about $125,000.

 

[Sidehiller]

Water line, sewer line, dry utilities, gravel under slab, perimeter drain, compaction, waterproofing, etc. I am an excavation estimator in Steamboat and the excavation alone for a low end house would be around $80,000 to $90,000, including driveway gravels. On a different note, we are looking for pipe guys - good pay, benifits and 10 minutes from Rabbit Ears.

 

[X-it]

My goodness 80,000 for excavating. You could buy a used excavator and still have 40,000 left over.

 

[skidoorulz]

Well, it looked like the others were on their own topic and I think this response was to me.

I'm not sure what you mean by some of the terms you used, as I said, not a contractor. It will be a basic concrete poured foundation. There will need to be about a 5' hole dug and what is dug out will be used as fill around the house. One side (Short side) will be a walkout basement, so that takes out one wall as far as concrete goes. We will need to do "tabs" to hold back some of the front fill to make it look as level as possible in the front. The walls will be 8' high. I'm not sure of the required specs as far as footers go.

It looks like your foundation is quite a bit like the one we are doing. Walk out basement and all. Concrete here is 78 to 83 dollars a yard. We are still waiting on the concrete guys bids and should have them all by the end of the week. We think the foundation with floor in garage and basement and a 20 X 25 ft pad and sidewalk to front door with steps plus a 10 x 10 pad out the back door shoud com in at less than 20 grand

 

[mtn_extreme]

Ok, I'll bite:

Excavation: material type? what's the cycle time for the tipping? solo or T&T?? How deep is the finished cut, and amount of haul off?

Concrete: 8" single curtain wall on basic footing? or???? What's the finished height (TOW from TOS)??

Need a couple of details to figure it out, but the price doesn't shock me yet.

Completely agree........in some areas it is still required that the walls be framed out and the wiring, plumbing, insulation and sheetrock(thru firetape) be completed.

You have the added expense of excavation, concrete, plumbing that has to be laid before the floor is poured, mechanical room that has to be finished, heat runs that have to be fured down, window wells, door exits with stairs, etc,etc. Alot more than just what is visible.

 

[Sidehiller]

My goodness 80,000 for excavating. You could buy a used excavator and still have 40,000 left over.

I've seen site where excavation has been $250,000 before concrete has been poured. Steep sites, boulders, bed rock, the cost of help in Steamboat. If you can pick up a $40,000 excavator and dig a house for 40, you should get into the buisiness up here. Good luck.

 

[sd900climber]

Thanks for all the replys and input guys.

Right now concrete is running $90-100 a cubic yard. I live in Deadwood, SD. The lot is reletively flat, other than the walk out side tapers off. There is absolutely no bedrock as the lot was primarily fill dirt 15+ years ago, so there will be no blasting. As far as I know SD doesn't require framing, insulation, drywall, ect... You can just have the concrete walls. There will be two egress (sp?) windows in the bedrooms, so that will add some.

As I said, only digging in about 5 feet tops, the rest will need to be filled to bring the elevation up for positive drainage. If there is any hauling it will be bringing dirt in. And they won't have to go more than a half mile for that.

RMK900Rider, maybe I should hire you as your price sounds great and is similar to what I want to do! Haha.

Obviously the Steamboat prices aren't really relevant as that is a whole other issue as far as property value, building, etc.

I know I don't have any idea what is going into actually getting a basement where it needs to be, but $60,000 of the overall $190,000 cost seemed a little steep to me for a pretty basic design house. Were talking 4 corners with a walkout and two windows.

 

[redlineguy]

I am starting my Post & Beam house this week. I have a Cat 120 excavator and will start digging next week I hope, signed the deal with the Post & Beam people last week and will have my final stamped plans by Friday. I have a Concrete guy lined up and a Blaster. Also I have a Guy to Put up the Post & Beam and do some stick framing as well. I wil do a lot of the work after that myself too.


Good time to Build if you have the money, Things are slowing down so people are working for less and if you offer CASH WOW you can save a LOT!!!. I even got 3% of the Post & Beam part whitch includes the window and other stuff. and 3% of that big of a # is a lot.


Good luck with your project



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[X-it]

Just one more thing make sure you excavate to undisturbed ground...you do not want to build on fill !! If it is too deep of and excavation to reach undisturbed ground, then sell the lot and look for another one. It is just not worth it.