Any updates??? Name released etc?
RIP
RIP
Another Avy Death yesterday in Clemina
- Thread starter MARCUSO
- Start date
calling someone who died in a tragic accident "stupid" is pretty low! You should think about that!
Ok, since hindsight is so easy to have, someone explain why they should not have been climbing??
--Was there an avalanche warning out?
--Does this hill slide regularly?
Guess I am curious to why all of you say not to climb this?? Stuff like this gets climbed every day during the season, and other than then it slid and looks obvious now, what would have prevented someone from climbing this hill. Please enlighten and educate.
--Was there an avalanche warning out?
--Does this hill slide regularly?
Guess I am curious to why all of you say not to climb this?? Stuff like this gets climbed every day during the season, and other than then it slid and looks obvious now, what would have prevented someone from climbing this hill. Please enlighten and educate.
Of course you are right, hindsight is 20/20 but:
I see a wind loaded convex slope with no support and a gully fully of rocks at the bottom as a terrain trap. Depending on the time of this photo looking at the sun it could be a northwest facing slope as well.
The fact that the video of a similar hill sliding a couple of days before was all over the news and internet and I probably would have thought twice about being on that hill.
note - That would have been my decision I cant speak for the people that were there, maybe it looked different to them
Condolences to all involved...
I see a wind loaded convex slope with no support and a gully fully of rocks at the bottom as a terrain trap. Depending on the time of this photo looking at the sun it could be a northwest facing slope as well.
The fact that the video of a similar hill sliding a couple of days before was all over the news and internet and I probably would have thought twice about being on that hill.
note - That would have been my decision I cant speak for the people that were there, maybe it looked different to them
Condolences to all involved...
C
cobbycat
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I know you are looking for answers so don't take offence but:
I would bet that you don't have any avy training.
things to look for;
A: check the avalanche bulliten
B: dig a pit and check for instabilities
C: look carefully at the hill for convexes and rocks sticking out (this is where it will trigger)
D: look for terrain traps
E: understand the snow pack (has been terrible this year with an unstable/weak layer on the ground)
F: ask some locals what the area is like for slides
G: look for wind load/pillows as there is weak layers in this
with the year we are having, we should assume that every hill will slide. then it is up to your training to prove that it is safe to climb, and if it doesn't come to your approval, then stay off.
the training is very useful and is essential if you ride in the mountains. I will be continuing my training in the early part of next season, knowledge is the key to survival. all the gear is just for correcting a mistake that was made.
like I said, don't take offence to this as I mean none. just trying to educate, not stir the pot.
I would bet that you don't have any avy training.
things to look for;
A: check the avalanche bulliten
B: dig a pit and check for instabilities
C: look carefully at the hill for convexes and rocks sticking out (this is where it will trigger)
D: look for terrain traps
E: understand the snow pack (has been terrible this year with an unstable/weak layer on the ground)
F: ask some locals what the area is like for slides
G: look for wind load/pillows as there is weak layers in this
with the year we are having, we should assume that every hill will slide. then it is up to your training to prove that it is safe to climb, and if it doesn't come to your approval, then stay off.
the training is very useful and is essential if you ride in the mountains. I will be continuing my training in the early part of next season, knowledge is the key to survival. all the gear is just for correcting a mistake that was made.
like I said, don't take offence to this as I mean none. just trying to educate, not stir the pot.
None taken, just trying to spark some intelligent conversation.
C
cobbycat
ACCOUNT CLOSED
sorry I couldn't contribute more but I do not know the area. I probably would have passed on that hill but again, I don't know the area and couldn't check the snowpack so I can't say for sure. the avy training is very eye opening, and highly advised.
R.I.P. fellow sledder.
R.I.P. fellow sledder.
Great post Cobbycat!
CC- as per cobbycat's comments, this is a hill that is normally a hill that gives you that pit in the bottom of your stomach (for ALL of the reasons said above) during the stable snow pack times... let alone in a time where more sledders have been killed than ever before...
NOT A GOOD TIME TO HILLCLIMB... let alone on a slope that has let go MANY times in the past and will continue to slide in the future!
CC- as per cobbycat's comments, this is a hill that is normally a hill that gives you that pit in the bottom of your stomach (for ALL of the reasons said above) during the stable snow pack times... let alone in a time where more sledders have been killed than ever before...
NOT A GOOD TIME TO HILLCLIMB... let alone on a slope that has let go MANY times in the past and will continue to slide in the future!
yup, hero snow and and a tapped throttle just dont do it for me.
trees wont hurt you until you mongrel one eh danny boy?
...rip and strength to the family...no disrespect...but truthfully for those of us that look at that hill...climbing that hill is disrespect
X2
On seeing those pics I wouldn't touch that with 10' pole. It failed on 3 different layers at least. Cross loaded at the convex and thin (rocks pointing out ) above it. It had everything wrong going for it. For you guys that look at these pics and cannot see what Interceptor and I have pointed out you need to sign up for an avy course. I think Lori Zacs still has some coming up.
We all make mistakes in life, some of the best people we have ever known have died from making mistakes. Its not right to get upset about this, it was his life and climbing that hill was what he chose to do. I am pretty sure if he had it to do again he would not even attempt it and if he could tell us not to he would, and i guess in a way he has. This is another warning to everyone what can happen when things go bad, this is not the last time this will happen by a long shot you make the choice.
Rest high on that mountian guy you are going to be missed. RIP
Rest high on that mountian guy you are going to be missed. RIP
Un-friggin believable!!! Everyone is an expert now and doesn't need an avy course??? Let the body count continue!!! Especially after reading that some peeps don't see the danger in these pics... yikes!
avy course
just to play devil's advocate here...do you need to have taken an avy course to recognize that this hill at this time of year, with that many pokes is not a good idea?
If I even thought about climbing that hill at this time of year in my group I'd get an earful when I got back down...
considering what happened right next door the week before a guy has to use better judgement and if you are that inexperienced to identify a potential disaster like that should you really be riding?
I would have tried that my first few years riding, but would have had the experienced guys with me to teach me why I shouldnt.
PS, I still have to take the course but I will.
just to play devil's advocate here...do you need to have taken an avy course to recognize that this hill at this time of year, with that many pokes is not a good idea?
If I even thought about climbing that hill at this time of year in my group I'd get an earful when I got back down...
considering what happened right next door the week before a guy has to use better judgement and if you are that inexperienced to identify a potential disaster like that should you really be riding?
I would have tried that my first few years riding, but would have had the experienced guys with me to teach me why I shouldnt.
PS, I still have to take the course but I will.
Thoughts and Prayers to the family
Interesting to note in the pictures as well.....to the left of the slide you see newly covered smaller slides and slide paths. Also in the second to last pic you see opposite of the hill that the slide occured on another decent size newly covered slide with similar slope angle. The devil is always in the details.....I am guilty of climbing hills I know I shouldn't....thankfully as I have become more experienced it is easier to talk myself out of a hill by looking for the subtle clues...if it is even questionable....probably not a good idea.
Enjoyed the post for the education and awareness with the pics.
Again prayers and thoughts with the family...must be an extremely difficult time.
Interesting to note in the pictures as well.....to the left of the slide you see newly covered smaller slides and slide paths. Also in the second to last pic you see opposite of the hill that the slide occured on another decent size newly covered slide with similar slope angle. The devil is always in the details.....I am guilty of climbing hills I know I shouldn't....thankfully as I have become more experienced it is easier to talk myself out of a hill by looking for the subtle clues...if it is even questionable....probably not a good idea.
Enjoyed the post for the education and awareness with the pics.
Again prayers and thoughts with the family...must be an extremely difficult time.
That hill does look bad, but before taking an avy course you wouldn't know of all the risks it shows, which is why everyone needs to take a course. Anyone who can say they haven't climbed risky hills is lieing to themselves. I was up on a hill that even after taking an avy course looked OK to me, and slid later that day and it was not a small one. This was a hill untouched all year, hadn't slid yet and a few people go on it and an hour later it comes down, really tells you something.
Many deaths this year were caused by poor decisions but MANY were wrong place wrong time, experienced people who just got some very bad luck.
Many deaths this year were caused by poor decisions but MANY were wrong place wrong time, experienced people who just got some very bad luck.
IGNORANCE is NOT bliss dude! Why did you have to get an earful from your more experienced riding buddies? If you were aware of the dangers and were trained to assess the riding situation for that day and area, you more than likely shouldn't be on that hill... BEFORE you get an earful from your buddies... it only takes one stupid decision and it can be all over. There is a reason that you get an earful... the more experienced riders with avy training can assess the situation and CHOOSE to avoid those areas that are too dangerous.
Common sense is a fleeting term... some times it isn't too common (unfortunately otherwise there would be a lot less deaths this season!)
PS Blair... go take the course... if by chance I get buried when I am riding with you, my family DEPENDS on your skills in avalanche recovery and safety to get me out alive... and I don't like to take a chance on things like that...
RIP to this young man's family and friends. May he rest in peace.
Just so everyone knows - most people that die in avy's, die of trauma, not delayed rescuers. Basically, if the rescuer has a beacon and you don't get smashed into a tree or off the rocks or the force of the avy bends you in half, there is a chance you could be found alive. Add in any of the above factors and you can pretty much kiss it all goodbye, if you get caught in an serious avy, there is a pretty slim chance you will survive (forget "walk away"). Avy training that you use and being cool and collected enough to recognize serious potential danger in the mountains will save your life more than the best equipment money can buy.
One thing that people really need to learn is the following and I see it every time I am out in the hills:
When I first started sledding, avy gear didn't exist to the common rider, your brain was your only equipment. Now people's gear is used as a first line of defense, when your gear should be your last line of defense, only assume that it will be used to recover your body. Assume that just because you have a beacon and air bag means nothing. My one buddy that died in a slide was buried 6" under the snow, if he had been alive he could have punched his way to the surface. Sadly, he died of a broken neck, and it didn't matter how fast he was found and how fast he was dug out. He could have had the best air bag and best beacon known to man, the trauma was just to significant for his fragile human body. Make no mistake, moving snow will fold you like a pretzel, crush your chest, break bones like blades of grass, and then huck you off a 50 ft cliff, all like you weren't even in its path. The power of an avalanche is vastly underestimated by many, many, many people.
Use your brain as your first line of defense, and your gear as your last.
NSC
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