America under Obama
- Thread starter Ollie
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P
Pukeandride
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pray to someone that he will
You don't need to learn it, but if you are smart businessman, you will! Mexicans come here because we NEED them. The ones I've dealt with work much harder than white boys. Sad, but true. Estas un payaso!
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if i can walk through las vegas during lunch hour and walk through tokyo and make good time, the damn people can walk across a bridge.
your saying theres NO cars in N.O? ok if i diddnt make my self clear about how many people can cram in a bus hows this?
if they can do that im sure 40 ( im gunna be p.c. about this one) "black people" can pile onto a bus to get the hell out of dodge
dont f*** with me on this you wont win
I actually had a guy tell me he had no respect for america because he could do what ever he wants and there is nothing I could do about it. So I punched him in the nose. I did get him arrested and deported, so that was a bright spot.
QUOTE]
ollie!! ollie!! ollie!!
reminds me of that jim croche song,
if this is true a story, you are my new hero.
Sincerely,
Ray in Grd Jnct
yes i just saw PCDOC beat to it! but its worth quoting 2x
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O
Ollie
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Granted, we need immigrants.
That is not the problem.
If they want to come here legally, work hard, integrate into OUR culture, I will be the first to buy em a beer and welcome them to the US.
What we don't need is 20 million criminals demanding we ignore our laws so they can get what they want.
If they don't want to obey our laws, I don't give a hoot how hard they work. They broke the law, they can pay the price.
The day the government passes amnesty is the day I join a militia and join the coming revolution. No joke.
Oh, and yes. That actually happened. At work actually. Did I mention I work with the federal police?
if i can walk through las vegas during lunch hour and walk through tokyo and make good time, the damn people can walk across a bridge.
your saying theres NO cars in N.O? ok if i diddnt make my self clear about how many people can cram in a bus hows this?
if they can do that im sure 40 ( im gunna be p.c. about this one) "black people" can pile onto a bus to get the hell out of dodge
dont f*** with me on this you wont win
DOn't **** with you? Or what? You gonna "rep" me? LOL
So you walked across Las Vegas, or you walked down the strip? Big difference. Walk from Vegas, past the Hoover damn in that heat and lets see how far you get? Are you going to carry or leave your children? Tough call huh?
What about your 80 year old mother? Leaving her too?
Where are they supposed to get this "bus"? I really don't think you understand the logistics of moving this huge amount of people from a very large city.
O
Ollie
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While I agree the local government should have done way more, I still don't see home much of the local population could have done much different.
I REALLY doubt people stayed with the plan to loot. I think that when the flooding and damage took place people took advantage of that. They saw it as let the TV flood in the store or take it. That doesn't excuse their behavior, but no one stayed with the plan to loot.
Katrina was a dissaster in so many ways. Everything went wrong.
I REALLY doubt people stayed with the plan to loot. I think that when the flooding and damage took place people took advantage of that. They saw it as let the TV flood in the store or take it. That doesn't excuse their behavior, but no one stayed with the plan to loot.
Katrina was a dissaster in so many ways. Everything went wrong.
K
khaddon2110
Well-known member
If we didnt need them, they wouldnt be here. Simple as that. They wouldnt come here if there was no one to hire them. The immigration laws are the problem, not the "criminals" as you put it. Most of these "criminals" are just people trying to make a better life for themselves and thier families. If I was making $10 a day in Juarez and knew I could make $10 an hour or more in El Paso, I'd be the first one swimming the Rio Grande. That's just capitalism.
Our immigration laws are an insult to capitalism. That wall they want to build is also a joke. It'll work as well as the war on drugs or prohibition did in the 30s. I've never done heroin, but I'm confident I could get some in a couple of hours should I want it. Our society is built on capitalism. No law, no fence will keep capitalism from running it's course. People have jobs for mexicans, so they will keep coming. People want drugs. There will always be someone to supply them. People wanted liquor during prohibition. Guess what? They got it.
To legally immigrate is a long process. We need these people now. We also need them to start paying taxes now. I hate paying the feds, but I do it. So should everyone within our borders.
If people could immigrate legally, they could pay thier taxes. We could even weed out the real criminals by doing background checks.
Would you deport all 20 million illegals if you could? What do you think would happen? This country would shut the f**k down, thats what would happen.
Now lets discuss your story. I'm thinking that what that guy said to you was meant to be a personal attack, designed to piss you off. You did get pissed off, as you should have. That fool deserved a punch in the face. Arrogant people like that need a *****-slapping occasionally.
While getting him deported might have been incredibly satisfying, in some small way it hurt the USA. Unless he is single, he is probably the bread winner in the family. Now he is gone and the family remains. With no money coming in, the house gets forclosed on, the family needs food stamps, etc. Now, his employer needs to put out money and time to replace the guy.
I agree with your comments on the lack of respect for thier houses. It drags down the whole neighborhood, not only in monetary value but in intangibles. I dont want my neighbors to have 6 foot weeds or broken down Jeeps in their front yard. I'm not sure what to say about that other than it's an unfortunate side effect of capitalism.
Let's all look past our collective hatred and start seeing things as capitalists. After all, it's the American way.
O
Ollie
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Every single place that has cracked down on illigal immigration has seen a decline in overall crime.
It is a piece of cake to get temp labor into this country. All you have to do is fill out the paper work. There are tens of thousands of mexicans standing in line to get temp visa's. Most (including those here illigally) don't want to become US citizens. They want to get cash to support their families.
I love the arguement that americans won't do the jobs. WHAT A LOAD OF BS.
Heres the deal.
I own a concrete company.
You own a concrete company.
It cost me 25 dollars an hour to pay for a laborer. I use only US citizens.
It cost you 15 dollars an hour to pay for a laborer. You use illigal immigrants.
I can't afford to compete. So I lay off my US citizens and hire illigal immigrants so I can compete with you.
Now the guys I laid off can't find work because no one will hire US citizens because they actually want a living wage and arn't willing to live 5 families to a single dwelling.
So the US citizens move away to find work.
In comes the Immigration department. They bust you and me for hiring illigals.
We put adds in the paper and can't find anyone to work for us. All the people have left.
So we both start screaming that there is no one to do the jobs. Americans won't do the work. That would be a true statement, of cource there arn't any americans to do the work because we forced them out.
Back in (I believe it was) the 30's they did a massive crack down on illigal immigration. The big ones hit back then were tomato growers. they stood back and screamed the crops would rot in the fields, there were no americans to do the work, blah, blah blah.
Still get tomatoes don't ya. They made machines to pick tomatoes.
The answer is not to REWARD CRIMINAL behavior. IF we need more laborers, then we increase the visa program to get em. Simple. If they try to reward the criminals that are here, it will get ugly.
I don't care how pitiful you say they are, how hard working they are, THEY ARE CRIMINALS AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS SUCH. It is no different than if I walk into your house, help myself to everything I want. Of cource I will clean your house before I leave so it's all good right?
It is a piece of cake to get temp labor into this country. All you have to do is fill out the paper work. There are tens of thousands of mexicans standing in line to get temp visa's. Most (including those here illigally) don't want to become US citizens. They want to get cash to support their families.
I love the arguement that americans won't do the jobs. WHAT A LOAD OF BS.
Heres the deal.
I own a concrete company.
You own a concrete company.
It cost me 25 dollars an hour to pay for a laborer. I use only US citizens.
It cost you 15 dollars an hour to pay for a laborer. You use illigal immigrants.
I can't afford to compete. So I lay off my US citizens and hire illigal immigrants so I can compete with you.
Now the guys I laid off can't find work because no one will hire US citizens because they actually want a living wage and arn't willing to live 5 families to a single dwelling.
So the US citizens move away to find work.
In comes the Immigration department. They bust you and me for hiring illigals.
We put adds in the paper and can't find anyone to work for us. All the people have left.
So we both start screaming that there is no one to do the jobs. Americans won't do the work. That would be a true statement, of cource there arn't any americans to do the work because we forced them out.
Back in (I believe it was) the 30's they did a massive crack down on illigal immigration. The big ones hit back then were tomato growers. they stood back and screamed the crops would rot in the fields, there were no americans to do the work, blah, blah blah.
Still get tomatoes don't ya. They made machines to pick tomatoes.
The answer is not to REWARD CRIMINAL behavior. IF we need more laborers, then we increase the visa program to get em. Simple. If they try to reward the criminals that are here, it will get ugly.
I don't care how pitiful you say they are, how hard working they are, THEY ARE CRIMINALS AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS SUCH. It is no different than if I walk into your house, help myself to everything I want. Of cource I will clean your house before I leave so it's all good right?
O
Ollie
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oh yea.
if we deported the 20 millions what would happen??
The same darn thing that happened when they took 400 people away from the meat packing plant in greeley colorado. People said the plant would shut down, there wasn't anyone to do the jobs, BLAH< BLAH< BLAH.
Well, at 8 dollars an hour there was no one to do the jobs.
when they offered 15 dollars an hour, they had a line 4 blocks long for the jobs.
That is what would happen around this country. The dead beat, greedy azzed employers would have to pony up to get workers. If they pay enough, people will come.
interesting read.
I bet if you pay more than mcdonalds or burger king they will come.
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/july-15-2008/teenyoung-adult-joblessness-worsening.html
if we deported the 20 millions what would happen??
The same darn thing that happened when they took 400 people away from the meat packing plant in greeley colorado. People said the plant would shut down, there wasn't anyone to do the jobs, BLAH< BLAH< BLAH.
Well, at 8 dollars an hour there was no one to do the jobs.
when they offered 15 dollars an hour, they had a line 4 blocks long for the jobs.
That is what would happen around this country. The dead beat, greedy azzed employers would have to pony up to get workers. If they pay enough, people will come.
interesting read.
I bet if you pay more than mcdonalds or burger king they will come.
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/july-15-2008/teenyoung-adult-joblessness-worsening.html
One problem with all of this, if you don't have a lower wage class, the work will still get done, just in a different way. Amazing how automated pickers are developed the minute labor gets expensive. And, what's wrong with making your own bed at the hotel, if no one else will do the work. I think people will do any kind of work, if the pay is high enough. So, we don't eat as many 'hard to pick" fruits, and vegetables. Some we can still import, the others get expensive. Things just get priced by their "true" cost. Hell, we might see a small resurgence in family farms again.
Heck, farmers keep bringing people into this country based on "labor needs". Why don't we charge everyone that's caught with illegal workers, for the care and welfare to support these people they brought in. Not to mention the law enforcement costs to catch them and ship them out.
I say poison drug users, so drug runners won't run Mexico, and help Mexico become a country other people will want to break the law to enter.
We have a responsibility to help Mexico (IMO), but we also have responsibility to make sure this country stays strong and prosperous.
Heck, farmers keep bringing people into this country based on "labor needs". Why don't we charge everyone that's caught with illegal workers, for the care and welfare to support these people they brought in. Not to mention the law enforcement costs to catch them and ship them out.
I say poison drug users, so drug runners won't run Mexico, and help Mexico become a country other people will want to break the law to enter.
We have a responsibility to help Mexico (IMO), but we also have responsibility to make sure this country stays strong and prosperous.
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Americans make up 5% of the world's population. We use 33% of the world's resourses. Want to keep it that way? If you do, you must realize that we are competing in a global economy, an increasingly competitive economy.
So in order to compete with Europe, Japan, etc. your solution is to deport 7% of our population? Isnt that like cutting off your foot before you compete in the 100 yard dash?
Money talks, Idealism walks.
Example: Idealism walking: Enviro-guys and many others have been preaching for years "driving your car is bad for the earth, lets all ride the bus or a bike instead or buy a smaller car". Well years of this preaching did nothing about the number or size of the cars on the road.
Money Talking: Fuel doubles in price. NOW people drive less. Prius sales are through the roof. GM is closing truck plants.
Both of you guys have a very idealistic view of the situation. Seriously, take up arms if amnesty is granted? Give me a break. I agree things would get ugly if amnesty is granted. That is because there are a lot of people who share your opinion.
I am trying to keep this short, so I won't respond to each and every thing in your posts. I do think your concrete company example is a little soft, and I do disagree with everything you said.
Let's take a look at the Greeley example you spoke of. 400 people were deported. 400 more forclosers in Greeley. Right now, you couldnt give away property in Greeley. Think 400 more foreclosures will help that? You live up there don't you? Hope you're not thinking of moving anytime soon. 400 people that make $8 and hour get sent packing. The company now has to train 400 new people and pay them nearly twice thier market value. I would stand in line to apply for a job that pays twice what I'm worth! Wouldn't you?
These 400 people made $8. Now those 400 people make $15. That's $112,000 per WEEK that the company has to pull out of thin air. That business got HURT. Business as usual? I think not.
The Greeley company still has to compete with other meat packers. How are they going to make up the $112,000 weekly hit? Bingo! Raise thier prices. The prices of thier competitors won't change. If I'm pricing out packing costs for a cattle rancher or grocery store (not sure who pays the packer), I'm going to see a bid for $1 from a Ft Morgan packer and a bid for $2 from the Greeley guy. Do I care if the workers in Greeley are legit? No. Can I even find out if they are legit or not? No. The bid from Ft. Morgan is accepted. The Greeley packer's business got HURT. A struggling city gets handed another blow.
Regarding the increasing difficulty for teens to find work, in this increasingly competitive market, wouldnt it be better for them to learn that jobs and money are hard to come by? It'll make them work harder. It'll make them work smarter. We need more smart, hard working Americans.
Again, look past your hate. Look at the big picture.
So in order to compete with Europe, Japan, etc. your solution is to deport 7% of our population? Isnt that like cutting off your foot before you compete in the 100 yard dash?
Money talks, Idealism walks.
Example: Idealism walking: Enviro-guys and many others have been preaching for years "driving your car is bad for the earth, lets all ride the bus or a bike instead or buy a smaller car". Well years of this preaching did nothing about the number or size of the cars on the road.
Money Talking: Fuel doubles in price. NOW people drive less. Prius sales are through the roof. GM is closing truck plants.
Both of you guys have a very idealistic view of the situation. Seriously, take up arms if amnesty is granted? Give me a break. I agree things would get ugly if amnesty is granted. That is because there are a lot of people who share your opinion.
I am trying to keep this short, so I won't respond to each and every thing in your posts. I do think your concrete company example is a little soft, and I do disagree with everything you said.
Let's take a look at the Greeley example you spoke of. 400 people were deported. 400 more forclosers in Greeley. Right now, you couldnt give away property in Greeley. Think 400 more foreclosures will help that? You live up there don't you? Hope you're not thinking of moving anytime soon. 400 people that make $8 and hour get sent packing. The company now has to train 400 new people and pay them nearly twice thier market value. I would stand in line to apply for a job that pays twice what I'm worth! Wouldn't you?
These 400 people made $8. Now those 400 people make $15. That's $112,000 per WEEK that the company has to pull out of thin air. That business got HURT. Business as usual? I think not.
The Greeley company still has to compete with other meat packers. How are they going to make up the $112,000 weekly hit? Bingo! Raise thier prices. The prices of thier competitors won't change. If I'm pricing out packing costs for a cattle rancher or grocery store (not sure who pays the packer), I'm going to see a bid for $1 from a Ft Morgan packer and a bid for $2 from the Greeley guy. Do I care if the workers in Greeley are legit? No. Can I even find out if they are legit or not? No. The bid from Ft. Morgan is accepted. The Greeley packer's business got HURT. A struggling city gets handed another blow.
Regarding the increasing difficulty for teens to find work, in this increasingly competitive market, wouldnt it be better for them to learn that jobs and money are hard to come by? It'll make them work harder. It'll make them work smarter. We need more smart, hard working Americans.
Again, look past your hate. Look at the big picture.
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Ollie
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Greeley meat packing paid it's cutters 12 dollars an hour in 92. By 2007 they paid them 8 dollars an hour. Did you see a drop is meat costs? No.
How did thy do it?
They paid criminals to do the labor because they didn't want to pay american citizens.
I don't care if you like it or not. I don't care if you think criminals are the greatest thing to ever happen to this country.
Bottom line.
THEY BROKE THE LAW.
I will not sit back and watch the criminals get away with it.
If we need the extra labor there are hundreds of millions of people waiting to come to america LEGALLY. So let em.
If they grant amnesty, I will take up arms. You may think it is a joke, but then again you are obviously the type who doesn't think anything is worth fighting for and will just roll over and take it. If we had more people that feel like you in the past, we would still be under european control or speaking japanese. I feel sorry for you.
As for teens not finding work.
If they can't find work then we obviously don't need the 20 million criminals and the whole no one to do the work is obviously not true also.
Tell ya what.
You don't care of criminals are taking american jobs, why not give up YOUR job and let YOUR boss pay some guy half your wages to do your job. You can sit back and watch as your kids and family go without because you love criminals. Would you just sit back and say, "oh well, guess I will just sit and take half the pay" or will you move to find better work?
Oh wait, you love criminals so you would obviously just take a 50% pay cut and smile all the way to the poor house. Welcome to a 3rd world nation.
How did thy do it?
They paid criminals to do the labor because they didn't want to pay american citizens.
I don't care if you like it or not. I don't care if you think criminals are the greatest thing to ever happen to this country.
Bottom line.
THEY BROKE THE LAW.
I will not sit back and watch the criminals get away with it.
If we need the extra labor there are hundreds of millions of people waiting to come to america LEGALLY. So let em.
If they grant amnesty, I will take up arms. You may think it is a joke, but then again you are obviously the type who doesn't think anything is worth fighting for and will just roll over and take it. If we had more people that feel like you in the past, we would still be under european control or speaking japanese. I feel sorry for you.
As for teens not finding work.
If they can't find work then we obviously don't need the 20 million criminals and the whole no one to do the work is obviously not true also.
Tell ya what.
You don't care of criminals are taking american jobs, why not give up YOUR job and let YOUR boss pay some guy half your wages to do your job. You can sit back and watch as your kids and family go without because you love criminals. Would you just sit back and say, "oh well, guess I will just sit and take half the pay" or will you move to find better work?
Oh wait, you love criminals so you would obviously just take a 50% pay cut and smile all the way to the poor house. Welcome to a 3rd world nation.
O
Ollie
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oh one other thing.
The other problem with granting amnesty is as follows.
In 86, the last time they lied to us.
They granted amnesty to a reported 1 million criminals. It turned out to be 3 million criminals. They in turn brought in their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, cousins, etc, etc, etc.
The 3 million brought in another 12 million.
Using that figure you can bet the 20 million will bring in 80 million. You think the infastrurue of this country could take 80 million people being dumped on the country in 4 or 5 years??
We have huge problems with urban sprall, water treatment plants that are running at full capacity, highways are falling apart.
It's time to get it under control.
As I said earlier. If we need the extra labor, they can come in legally or not at all.
Period.
Some things in life are worth fighting for.
Said all I am going to say on this.
The other problem with granting amnesty is as follows.
In 86, the last time they lied to us.
They granted amnesty to a reported 1 million criminals. It turned out to be 3 million criminals. They in turn brought in their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, cousins, etc, etc, etc.
The 3 million brought in another 12 million.
Using that figure you can bet the 20 million will bring in 80 million. You think the infastrurue of this country could take 80 million people being dumped on the country in 4 or 5 years??
We have huge problems with urban sprall, water treatment plants that are running at full capacity, highways are falling apart.
It's time to get it under control.
As I said earlier. If we need the extra labor, they can come in legally or not at all.
Period.
Some things in life are worth fighting for.
Said all I am going to say on this.
I'm not exactly in Ollie's camp. I find value in hard working people, and I'm not about to place all problems in America on illegal Mexicans heads. Now, if you said, the hard working Mexicans can stay, and for every one of them, we ship a 2nd generation welfare recipient out to an Ice Berg, well now I might agree.
Of course, if their hard working, they won't mind taking English classes.
I do agree with Ollie that they have broken the law. The law, being the law, should be upheld. That's how we end up with "special" laws, when a law already existed. How many smart hardworking foreigners (from other countries and ethnicities) are denied the chance to come to America, because 20 million Middle/South Americans broke the law. You have disenfranchised other people's of the world, their chance to come here. If you grant amnesty to Mexicans, your a racist (by definition) for not granting it to everyone. Heck, just open the doors, and let everyone move here. Our immigration laws are there to be broken. Say we all.
Of course, if their hard working, they won't mind taking English classes.
I do agree with Ollie that they have broken the law. The law, being the law, should be upheld. That's how we end up with "special" laws, when a law already existed. How many smart hardworking foreigners (from other countries and ethnicities) are denied the chance to come to America, because 20 million Middle/South Americans broke the law. You have disenfranchised other people's of the world, their chance to come here. If you grant amnesty to Mexicans, your a racist (by definition) for not granting it to everyone. Heck, just open the doors, and let everyone move here. Our immigration laws are there to be broken. Say we all.
Still haven't gotten an answer to my question.
If Obama went to work for the CIA, what's the highest security clearance he could possibly hold? I think I know. Commander and Chief?????? with just a secret security clearance.
Second, based on Obama's previous record of accomplishments, within the public legislative sector, why does anyone think Obama will actually do ANYTHING, if elected? Need proof.
If Obama went to work for the CIA, what's the highest security clearance he could possibly hold? I think I know. Commander and Chief?????? with just a secret security clearance.
Second, based on Obama's previous record of accomplishments, within the public legislative sector, why does anyone think Obama will actually do ANYTHING, if elected? Need proof.
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